2021 BOA Grand Nationals (Nov. 11-13)

[Rubisco]

People may want to adjust their... predictions... or maybe not! We've still got a couple weeks left.

[JeremiahW]

21 minutes ago, Rubisco said:

Blue Springs was... interesting. Not sure I really understand the show at all, but that's not really a requirement.

I'm told there's some sort of narration that wasn't happening? Might add some clarity.

[Rubisco]

1 minute ago, JeremiahW said:

I'm told there's some sort of narration that wasn't happening? Might add some clarity.

That could be nice. I definitely couldn't hear the sax soloist as well this time around. It seemed like they were having mic issues.

[BandFan59]

2 hours ago, Rubisco said:

I caught Avon and Carmel on high cam.

Yeaaaaah, so I might have been wrong about only 1 Texas band placing in the top 3 at Nationals this year.

I'll say it again, because it bears repeating: make sure you're listening side to side, kiddos!

In their defense, lots of other top groups are having this issue. It's just that it was rather... persistent....

I really do like Carmel's ballad though! I just hope that both groups can get the musical and visual execution a little bit closer to what's typical.

I watched their high cams on YouTube just now, and I think I agree with you. Both groups are fantastic don't get me wrong, but they don't scream national championship caliber to me like, say, Broken Arrow does right now. Of the two I'd probably say Carmel is performing at a higher level right now, but Avon has more potential with their show for me.

[An Inspirational Pinecone]

I know this is St Louis/Indy weekend but TWHS finally got a chance to perform their full show today and it is easily my favorite from them. They haven't performed the opener since boa Conroe and my god the visuals are clean. There's that one part in the opener that's kinda shaky when they get to the double tounging but I'm sure it'll get fixed. They have been working on the closer and it seems to change every show but it's gotten very colorful. Seems like the effect is too sudden and there's not a lot of impact coming from it but maybe it's just unpolished.

[Rubisco]

3 hours ago, BandFan59 said:

I watched their high cams on YouTube just now, and I think I agree with you. Both groups are fantastic don't get me wrong, but they don't scream national championship caliber to me like, say, Broken Arrow does right now. Of the two I'd probably say Carmel is performing at a higher level right now, but Avon has more potential with their show for me.

Sorry, I was celebrating the Astros making it into the World Series! Woo! 🤩 Let's go, "Cheatstros"! 😂

But yeah, the biggest thing holding me back from casually predicting Avon and Carmel for the top right now is the execution. The content is solid, albeit a little familiar for both groups. I feel like Carmel's show is a mashup of their 2016 program and PCEP's early 2000s "vanishing band" programs. Avon is... actually, watching this show again, they don't have as many ensemble stickouts as Carmel does, but the show feels... bare bones? Smaller? Maybe it's just more of a traditional show. Kind of reminds me of their 2014 moth to the flame show, for obvious reasons. The drill program isn't sustaining my interest as much as it usually does, but I'm sure there will be differences of opinion on that. I think if both groups clean up significantly, they could contend for the top 3, but I'm still feeling Broken Arrow for the win. We'll see what that group looks and sounds like later today.

1 hour ago, An Inspirational Pinecone said:

I know this is St Louis/Indy weekend but TWHS finally got a chance to perform their full show today and it is easily my favorite from them.

They are truly fantastic this year. Tremendous clarity in the design and execution. The show has so many wonderful little details as well, for those of us rabidly scanning the field with our hawk eyes. Now, I don't know if I'd end the show with that frantic, jazzy dominant 7th chord, or whatever it is, but it gets your heart racing for sure. Very colorful!

[LeanderMomma]

8 hours ago, Rubisco said:

🤩 Let's go, "Cheatstros"! 😂

🤣🤣🤣

[Origin]

Unless Homestead can reallllly clean, I think the last (or maybe last two, I didn’t see Blue Springs) nats finals spot is still kindof wide open. I quite like the show though, very ambitious.

Castle’s show is probably my favorite of theirs since 2018. Also dirty, but there’s time to clean.

It’s a given this year that there’s going to be more dirt, so with the bubble bands especially, I think it’ll come down to which can give the cleanest performance. Cmon Round Rock!

[Origin]

Interesting show from William Mason. It’s honestly a bit weird to see them without a ton of giant props. I thought the flyovers were a bit overkill and sometimes silly looking. I’m not familiar with Top Gun, so I don’t know if the music came from that movie, but it felt very cinematic. Overall, my favorite part of the show was the music, it was really beautiful! Woodwinds are strong as usual. 

[BandFan59]

Just saw a video of the Woodlands from last night at their football game, and wow do they look impressive. There's a lot more choreography now throughout the show so there's not nearly as much park and bark. The guard is incredible and really does a great job in everything they do. The closer is certainly more up tempo and demanding than the rest of the show, but the GE is off the charts with the end of the show. I wasn't sure if a show with this kind of theme would be considered an Eagle winning show, but if there ever is such a show than this is the one.

[Rubisco]

I thought Broken Arrow performed at 3:30, so I started watching partway through their opener on high cam. Oopsie! There was significant phasing between the pit and the rest of the band during the start of the closer, and some other visual/musical dirt, but overall nothing has changed my mind about this group. The Eagle is Broken Arrow's to lose at Nationals this year. And after watching this show side by side with Avon's and Carmel's shows, it's a complete no-brainer for me whose show is better.

There are probably 4 groups among the top bands in the country right now that I would say are executing at or around the level I'd expect them to execute at during a "normal" year. Those groups are Broken Arrow, The Woodlands, Flower Mound, and Vandegrift. Maybe not surprisingly, those are also my top picks of the year. Broken Arrow goes the extra mile, though, by giving us a really complete, seamless, uplifting musical and visual journey. I think it's unmatched this year, but we won't know that for sure until Nationals rolls around. There are still a couple weeks of cleaning left.

[Rubisco]

I should clarify that I still haven't seen William Mason.

[Rubisco]

Carmel tops Avon in Indianapolis prelims. I agree, but I probably would have given Avon the music caption without the tie with Carmel.

[Origin]

My medalists right now are:

Broken Arrow - No explanation needed. Looking like a medal lock.                     

Flower Mound - Strong across all captions 

Carmel - IMO a flawlessly designed show. So much demand and so much talent.

Potential medalists in random order (any could probably swap with Flo Mo or Carmel):                                 

Reagan - If they can get the execution up to 2019 levels, a medal is in reach.         

Avon - When is the last time they didn’t finish top 3 at Nats? Super demanding show visually, but it’s not their most memorable at the moment. 

CTJ - This is a big show. It certainly has the demand to contend for a medal, and they’ve given themselves plenty of time to clean.                      

The Woodlands - I love this show. I don’t have it higher because I’m not personally convinced that there is enough demand to medal, but I hope I’m wrong. 

 

[cjm715]

Cartwright really went all out with BA this year huh? Loving it

[Rubisco]

59 minutes ago, Origin said:

The Woodlands - I love this show. I don’t have it higher because I’m not personally convinced that there is enough demand to medal, but I hope I’m wrong.

That's a good point, and one that we touched on earlier in the season. I could definitely see the overall level of drill demand being an issue, which I think we'll find out at San Antonio, if they end up placing way lower than expected. That said, demand is a pretty broad thing. For example, I could point out this group's relatively massive guard vocabulary, frequent mid-movement tempo shifts (and control of those shifts), and variety of choreographic challenges beyond basic marching, and I think you've got a pretty challenging program. Challenging enough to win at San Antonio or break the top 3 at Nats? I don't know. That's not for me to decide this year.

[Rubisco]

Also, let's face it: there's demand, and then there's demand within reason. If you're flying around the field and playing a billion notes, but it's not reasonably clean, it's not readable -- in the words of Shania Twain: that don't impress me much.

[Samuel Culper]

15 minutes ago, Rubisco said:

Also, let's face it: there's demand, and then there's demand within reason. If you're flying around the field and playing a billion notes, but it's not reasonably clean, it's not readable -- in the words of Shania Twain: that don't impress me much.

Yep.  So really, there is...

Demand

Demand within reason

Demand compared to others

I think you can have a show that is relatively moderate demand and executed extremely well that shows well early in the season and perhaps score over another show that has very high demand that is executed decently.  Given time, that second show has more room to outpace the first.

It's like a high floor/low ceiling show vs medium floor/high ceiling show

 

I got a little vague there.  Apologies.

[Rubisco]

Somebody post a video of William Mason on YouTube for me later. I probably won't be watching any finals events tonight.

[LeanderMomma]

I agree with those putting Broken Arrow in contention for the GN Eagle. After seeing them live today I’m firmly in the BA camp!!!!!

[WILKINSON]

11 minutes ago, LeanderMomma said:

I agree with those putting Broken Arrow in contention for the GN Eagle. After seeing them live today I’m firmly in the BA camp!!!!!

Since you've seen Broken Arrow live, how do they stack up against the other top groups that you've seen live this year, like Vandegrift, CTJ, and Ronald Reagan? 

[An Inspirational Pinecone]

20 hours ago, Rubisco said:

Tremendous clarity in the design and execution. The show has so many wonderful little details as well, for those of us rabidly scanning the field with our hawk eyes.

I've been thinking about that for a bit, like I do with everything you say, and I think the reason this show is so well designed is because they meant to do Chicago in 2020. Things happened and they went with West Side Story but that meant that they had over a year to think of ideas for this show.

[Rubisco]

William Mason was... I don't know. I mean, they were good for sure. They're great performers. I just think when you go into a show and you've heard the theme beforehand and you have all these ideas of your own about the show in your head, you run the risk of being a little disappointed when you find out the band takes a different route.

Right off the bat I was concerned, because Mason's uniforms just blend right into the field. It made the entire band look so much smaller and harder to read. That, coupled with the fact that the show is a fairly bare bones production to begin with, made it difficult for the group to sustain my interest visually. Some of the Cartwright-isms of this show are also a bit disappointing, like all the spinning circles and little pods and lifts, which were once really cool, and are still somehow cool in Broken Arrow's show this year, but are now starting to look like recycled material. My favorite part was probably the ballad. I think they did a good job of capturing the serenity of being up in the clouds. Do I like all the fabrics? Eh, maybe a little bit overused, but they may look nicer from way high up.

I actually caught Brownsburg before Mason, another Cartwright show, and I actually really liked that group. I thought it was more engaging, personally, but I don't know if the judges will agree with me on that tonight.

[principalagent]

I agree that Brownsburg should probably be above Mason but the judges don't have the cojones to call it.

[lost]

5 minutes ago, principalagent said:

I agree that Brownsburg should probably be above Mason but the judges don't have the cojones to call it.

I’m not really sure what this comment means. If the judges see that a band that’s traditionally successful struggles in performance then they’ll score them lower, if they see a band that traditionally struggles be successful they’ll see them higher. It’s not about if the judges are personally deciding to ruffle feathers with scoring or not.