Final 2023 6A Marching Band Rankings

[BandNerd07]

So I have been noticing that Dave Campbell's Texas Football updates their weekly rankings for the top 25 football teams in 6A, so I've decided to do one for marching band. I took results from BOA Grand Nationals, BOA San Antonio, and UIL State into consideration when making this. I also have next to each band what their final contest was this season, and I do plan to do this as the season goes on next year. So anyways, here's the final top 25 from this year:

1. Vandegrift (BOA San Antonio)
2. Marcus (BOA San Antonio)
3. Hebron (BOA Grand Nationals)
4. Vista Ridge (BOA San Antonio)
5. The Woodlands (BOA Grand Nationals)
6. Ronald Reagan (BOA San Antonio)
7. Flower Mound (UIL State)
8. Pearland (BOA Grand Nationals)
9. L.D. Bell (BOA San Antonio)
10. Bridgeland (BOA San Antonio)
11. Coppell (UIL State)
12. Cy-Fair (UIL State)
13. Waxahachie (UIL State)
14. Round Rock (BOA Grand Nationals)
15. Keller (BOA Grand Nationals)
16. James Bowie (BOA Grand Nationals)
17. Prosper (UIL State)
18. Westlake (BOA San Antonio)
19. Cedar Ridge (BOA San Antonio)
20. Claudia Taylor Johnson (BOA Grand Nationals)
21. Dripping Springs (BOA Grand Nationals)
22. Seven Lakes (UIL State)
23. Dickinson (UIL State)
24. North Shore (UIL State)
25. Timber Creek (BOA San Antonio)

So there you have it. Congratulations to all of these bands for finishing in the top 25. Hope to see how this list could change in 2024 with a few newbies to 6A!

[Rubisco]

Interesting perspective!

The three best bands in Texas the last three (post-pandemic) years in a row have been Hebron, Vandegrift, and The Woodlands, along with what I've been calling "+1s" each season. The +1 each of the last three seasons has been a different band. This year it was Marcus, last year it was Ronald Reagan, and in 2021 it was Flower Mound.

[BandFan95]

Didn't Westwood place 16th at State, 20th at BOA SA, and not to mention finishing 3rd at BOA St. Louis? Just wondered why they were left off

[LeanderMomma]

30 minutes ago, BandFan95 said:

Didn't Westwood place 16th at State, 20th at BOA SA, and not to mention finishing 3rd at BOA St. Louis? Just wondered why they were left off

Yeah, what kind of bogus ranking is this anyway?  😉

I’m teasing of course. Just pointing out how truly difficult it is to get band rankings in an order that makes sense to everyone. Sorta like GN was this weekend. Hebron won Prelims, took 4th in Semi’s and moved up to 3rd in finals. Does that mean the judges thought their placement was wrong 2 of the 3 times they judged them?  And if so, which of the 3 placements they took in GN is the “correct” placement?  Just something to think about….

[utee94]

They finished 8th in finals at BOA-Austin as well, which had a stacked list of participants.

I was lucky enough to get to see Westwood's show several times this season, and not only did I enjoy it, but I enjoyed how the directors grew it and fleshed it out over the season, and how the players improved in execution seemingly every single time they performed.  It was really nicely done all the way around.

My friends with kids at Cedar Ridge, on the other hand, might not agree with me.

 

 

[littlejaw]

Why Cedar Ridge over CTJ? Wouldn’t the last head to head competition be enough data by itself?

[BandFan95]

4 minutes ago, littlejaw said:

Why Cedar Ridge over CTJ? Wouldn’t the last head to head competition be enough data by itself?

This too.

Yeah, this is ALL hard.

I mean, didn't both Westwood and Cedar Ridge beat Bowie at Area and BOA Austin?

[peshbandkid]

1. Vandegrift

2. Marcus

3. Hebron

4. The Woodlands

5. Vista Ridge

6. Flower Mound

7. Ronald Reagan

8. Pearland

9. Bridgeland

10. Coppell

 Next 5: L.D Bell, Cy-Fair, Round Rock, Waxahachie, Keller

While I'm at it, here are some caption awards  

 

Favorite Opener: Vista Ridge

Favorite Ballad: Marcus

Favorite Closer: The Woodlands

Favorite Overall: The Woodlands

[natertater21000]

1 hour ago, LeanderMomma said:

Hebron won Prelims, took 4th in Semi’s and moved up to 3rd in finals. Does that mean the judges thought their placement was wrong 2 of the 3 times they judged them?  And if so, which of the 3 placements they took in GN is the “correct” placement?  Just something to think about….

This has more to do with different judges grading their individual sub captions during different runs and getting different results. These are still students after all so completely consistent run through quality (while that is the ultimate goal) is a bit of a myth. There is also the small amount of luck involved in where the judges eye happened to be in any given moment.

As an example-Maybe the flutes on side two in the opener have had foot timing issues throughout the year. During pre lims the judge happened to be looking at side one and completely missed it. This ended in a higher individual marching score as a result. The judges in semis and finals did happen to be looking at side two in that moment and caught the small timing error. It's all how the individual numbers add up in the end. The judges don't all go meet in a huddle at the end of the show and decide on an overall ranking. 

[LeanderMomma]

1 hour ago, natertater21000 said:

This has more to do with different judges grading their individual sub captions during different runs and getting different results. These are still students after all so completely consistent run through quality (while that is the ultimate goal) is a bit of a myth. There is also the small amount of luck involved in where the judges eye happened to be in any given moment.

As an example-Maybe the flutes on side two in the opener have had foot timing issues throughout the year. During pre lims the judge happened to be looking at side one and completely missed it. This ended in a higher individual marching score as a result. The judges in semis and finals did happen to be looking at side two in that moment and caught the small timing error. It's all how the individual numbers add up in the end. The judges don't all go meet in a huddle at the end of the show and decide on an overall ranking. 

Yes of course. I was just making a comparison that I thought people could more easily identify with as far as how different people see different things, even when ranking bands. I guess ideally we would just let a computer do it and remove the human factors completely. 

[WoodlandsMom4ever]

40 minutes ago, LeanderMomma said:

Yes of course. I was just making a comparison that I thought people could more easily identify with as far as how different people see different things, even when ranking bands. I guess ideally we would just let a computer do it and remove the human factors completely. 

Now wouldn’t that be something for a “band nerd” to set up… an Ai computer given the data points of the scoring for UIL, and Boa sheets, and then have the computer AI watch videos of all the bands and see where they would score and have them ranked… 

off season project… 

and we would probably still have disagreements about the results.  

[natertater21000]

1 hour ago, LeanderMomma said:

Yes of course. I was just making a comparison that I thought people could more easily identify with as far as how different people see different things, even when ranking bands. I guess ideally we would just let a computer do it and remove the human factors completely. 

imagine a future where you have to upload the score and drill book into a contest computer and it judges your accuracy and spacing down to the inches. 

[LeanderMomma]

19 minutes ago, natertater21000 said:

imagine a future where you have to upload the score and drill book into a contest computer and it judges your accuracy and spacing down to the inches. 

Ugh. I would hate that. 😅 I prefer the human component to Ai. 🥴

[Hard Core Band Fan]

33 minutes ago, natertater21000 said:

imagine a future where you have to upload the score and drill book into a contest computer and it judges your accuracy and spacing down to the inches. 

In that case, why have competitions? You could just record a video, submit it for critique, and then the videos could be processed and the winner posted online. It would save money and would be better for the environment, greatly reducing everyone's carbon footprint. The scary thing is this isn't too far from the crazy things already happening today.

[natertater21000]

1 hour ago, Hard Core Band Fan said:

In that case, why have competitions? You could just record a video, submit it for critique, and then the videos could be processed and the winner posted online. It would save money and would be better for the environment, greatly reducing everyone's carbon footprint. The scary thing is this isn't too far from the crazy things already happening today.

Another strange thing to think about

That’s not far from how the honor band taping process works…with human judges of course. 

[BandNerd07]

Okay, sorry I forgot to elaborate on this earlier. The correct placement during GNats were finals, or semi-finals for the bands that didn't make finals. This rule also applies for BOA SA. For the BOA contests it's really easy because since they use the same exact judging method, I just gathered results from both and ranked them from highest to lowest. For UIL State, it's more challenging because their ranking system is entirely different from BOA. In this case, i just automatically put bands that only attended UIL above a band that attended either BOA contest. I know it's not a perfect system, but this is just how I did it. Going into this, I knew there would be some disagrees but at the end of the day, I just went with what I went with.

[BandNerd07]

1 minute ago, BandNerd07 said:

Okay, sorry I forgot to elaborate on this earlier. The correct placement during GNats were finals, or semi-finals for the bands that didn't make finals. This rule also applies for BOA SA. For the BOA contests it's really easy because since they use the same exact judging method, I just gathered results from both and ranked them from highest to lowest. For UIL State, it's more challenging because their ranking system is entirely different from BOA. In this case, i just automatically put bands that only attended UIL above a band that attended either BOA contest. I know it's not a perfect system, but this is just how I did it. Going into this, I knew there would be some disagrees but at the end of the day, I just went with what I went with.

And another thing, I know Westwood beat Bowie at SA, but Bowie's placement at GN was higher than Westwood at SA. So basically if a band decided to extend their season, they have a chance to beat a band they didn't at the previous contest.

[pancake]

im gonna make my own

1. Vandegrift (BOA San Antonio)
2. Marcus (BOA San Antonio)
3. Hebron (BOA Grand Nationals)
4. The Woodlands (BOA Grand Nationals)
5. Vista Ridge (BOA San Antonio)
6. Flower Mound (UIL State)
7. Ronald Reagan (BOA San Antonio)
8. Coppell (UIL State)
9. Pearland (BOA Grand Nationals)
10. L.D. Bell (BOA San Antonio)
11. Bridgeland (BOA San Antonio)
12. Round Rock (BOA Grand Nationals)
13. Cy-Fair (UIL State)
14. Keller (BOA Grand Nationals)
15. Waxahachie (UIL State)
16. James Bowie (BOA Grand Nationals)
17. Westlake (BOA San Antonio)
18. Claudia Taylor Johnson (BOA Grand Nationals)
19. Dripping Springs (BOA Grand Nationals)
20. Cedar Ridge (BOA San Antonio)

[BandNerd07]

7 hours ago, pancake said:

im gonna make my own

1. Vandegrift (BOA San Antonio)
2. Marcus (BOA San Antonio)
3. Hebron (BOA Grand Nationals)
4. The Woodlands (BOA Grand Nationals)
5. Vista Ridge (BOA San Antonio)
6. Flower Mound (UIL State)
7. Ronald Reagan (BOA San Antonio)
8. Coppell (UIL State)
9. Pearland (BOA Grand Nationals)
10. L.D. Bell (BOA San Antonio)
11. Bridgeland (BOA San Antonio)
12. Round Rock (BOA Grand Nationals)
13. Cy-Fair (UIL State)
14. Keller (BOA Grand Nationals)
15. Waxahachie (UIL State)
16. James Bowie (BOA Grand Nationals)
17. Westlake (BOA San Antonio)
18. Claudia Taylor Johnson (BOA Grand Nationals)
19. Dripping Springs (BOA Grand Nationals)
20. Cedar Ridge (BOA San Antonio)

Did you use some sort of method to rank all of these bands or did you just rank them on personal preference? I know there's really no "official" method to rank but I'm just curious?

[pancake]

ehh i kinda just took head to head competition more into account. like coppell beat pearland, ld bell, and bridgeland in state prelims and finals (tied with pearland but close enough) so i put them above them. obviously boa weighs heavier than uil, but that was all we had for the majority of dfw bands so i just took that and ran. same kinda thing for flo mo and twhs, flomo placed behind Marcus at uil, but then twhs placed above them at boa sa, so i decided to shove them all in the same region. it’s hard with all the different comps, but mainly just thinking about would have most likely happened alongside the results that we do have.

[utee94]

30 minutes ago, pancake said:

ehh i kinda just took head to head competition more into account. like coppell beat pearland, ld bell, and bridgeland in state prelims and finals (tied with pearland but close enough) so i put them above them. obviously boa weighs heavier than uil, but that was all we had for the majority of dfw bands so i just took that and ran. same kinda thing for flo mo and twhs, flomo placed behind Marcus at uil, but then twhs placed above them at boa sa, so i decided to shove them all in the same region. it’s hard with all the different comps, but mainly just thinking about would have most likely happened alongside the results that we do have.

Does it?  Should it?

It's your ranking and you can do it however you like, but personally I prefer UIL scoring rubric over the BOA scoring metrics, and in general I like the type of marching induced by UIL guidelines more than I like the type of marching that becomes manifested when trying to create a show that scores well for BOA.

Just a personal preference of course.

[pancake]

3 minutes ago, utee94 said:

Does it?  Should it?

It's your ranking and you can do it however you like, but personally I prefer UIL scoring rubric over the BOA scoring metrics, and in general I like the type of marching induced by UIL guidelines more than I like the type of marching that becomes manifested when trying to create a show that scores well for BOA.

Just a personal preference of course.

i only really said that because all we have from uil is really state prelims and finals. like sure area is great, but the majority of people agree that area scoring can be weird (even if it not always is). boa seems to be more consistent, especially taking into account how scores (mainly score gaps between bands) grow throughout the season. like i love being able to compare the early Austin, Houston and Dallas regionals to what we get in sa and nats, and you can’t really do that with uil.

i actually do like the uil scoring too, but i also feel like uil and boa are both too far on opposite ends of the spectrum. like i love seeing the brass, perc, ww rankings in uil, but then it raises the question if a coherent show is even needed if only 1 of the 7 judges is regarding design. the opposite is for boa, like percussion and guard is basically ignored in boa which sucks cause those are pretty major parts of the band. sure some captions are said to cover these but in reality, they are not really given the light of day, imo at least. honestly, i like the dci rubric the most cause its like a middle ground between the two.

[utee94]

3 minutes ago, pancake said:

i only really said that because all we have from uil is really state prelims and finals. like sure area is great, but the majority of people agree that area scoring can be weird (even if it not always is).

Gotcha.  That makes sense.

[LeanderMomma]

On 11/14/2023 at 10:21 AM, pancake said:

opposite is for boa, like percussion and guard is basically ignored in boa which sucks cause those are pretty major parts of the band.

Amen. I would love to see these two groups recognized more and added to BOA captions!

[littlejaw]

1 hour ago, LeanderMomma said:

Amen. I would love to see these two groups recognized more and added to BOA captions!

There are at least 20 points that can be taken from GE and distributed to these sections.