BOA Conroe 2018

[TWHSParent]

Stephen F. Austin was 0.35 points from finals... mostly because of the GE. But can anyone tell me what GE really stands for? Yes, i know its music and visual combined. But what makes the scores so different from the actual separate music and visual scores?

 

Maybe a way to describe this is something that I loved last year. Vandegrift's ballad was Sound of Silence. During that, they build to a big sound, then the entire band goes silent, leaving everyone hanging, with the last chord echoing. Then eventually the flute soloist finishes the musical thought. That build, sudden silence, then finally the conclusion is a perfect definition of music GE. It hits perfectly with the song (The Sound of Silence) and was just an outstanding moment.

 

For visual GE, I'll go out of Texas, and back to 2015 and something that really struck me. During Marian Catholic's show "String Theory", they form a marionette on the field, then proceed to walk it under the control of the strings. I loved the visual impact of that moment, near the climax of their show. It really worked well to my eyes.

 

I hope these examples help. Rather than a technical definition I thought I'd give these a shot.

[TWHSParent]

Looking at the scores a little closer, I would actually say that it wasn't so much SFA's GE, but their music performance score that kept them out of finals. They were rated 15th, over a point (1.05) behind the 10th place music performance band. They were 12th in GE, only 0.35 points behind the 10th place GE band. Improving music performance depends on the execution of the band, and pretty much not on the design of the show, so this is very much something they can directly address.

[Guest]

 

Looking at the scores a little closer, I would actually say that it wasn't so much SFA's GE, but their music performance score that kept them out of finals. They were rated 15th, over a point (1.05) behind the 10th place music performance band. They were 12th in GE, only 0.35 points behind the 10th place GE band. Improving music performance depends on the execution of the band, and pretty much not on the design of the show, so this is very much something they can directly address.

In my opinion it was their ensemble sound that hurt them the most.

[WoodlandsMom4ever]

Ok.... so I'm just barely getting a chance to sit down at a computer where I can actually type things out instead of on my phone... (sorry my hubby say's I can get long winded?) 

 

I feel like even though I've had kids in band for 6 years now, I'm just now starting to catch the bug to try and figure out what makes the difference between the good bands and the ones that are on the bubble and can't quite get to finals.  When we lived in Oklahoma- we were in a band that couldn't quite get to finals very often, but now with TWHS it's kind of the opposite.  I didn't get a chance to watch all the bands at Conroe because I was chaperoning the band kids, but the ones I watched- while I could see some were higher in quality than others, I can't distinguish between the lower half of the bands that got into finals and the top 3-4 bands that fell below that #10 spot.  

 

Admittedly I'm bias'd a little bit since they are another local school- but what was it that kept College Park from scoring better?  Is their program just not technically difficult enough to pull off a higher score?  Do I just not have the "ears" to notice the difference in the difficultly or not of the music they played?  I really enjoyed their program but know I don't know enough to understand the breakdowns much.

[TWHSParent]

Ok.... so I'm just barely getting a chance to sit down at a computer where I can actually type things out instead of on my phone... (sorry my hubby say's I can get long winded?) 

 

I feel like even though I've had kids in band for 6 years now, I'm just now starting to catch the bug to try and figure out what makes the difference between the good bands and the ones that are on the bubble and can't quite get to finals.  When we lived in Oklahoma- we were in a band that couldn't quite get to finals very often, but now with TWHS it's kind of the opposite.  I didn't get a chance to watch all the bands at Conroe because I was chaperoning the band kids, but the ones I watched- while I could see some were higher in quality than others, I can't distinguish between the lower half of the bands that got into finals and the top 3-4 bands that fell below that #10 spot.  

 

Admittedly I'm bias'd a little bit since they are another local school- but what was it that kept College Park from scoring better?  Is their program just not technically difficult enough to pull off a higher score?  Do I just not have the "ears" to notice the difference in the difficultly or not of the music they played?  I really enjoyed their program but know I don't know enough to understand the breakdowns much.

 

It is actually quite difficult, which is why you will rarely see any of the predictions being 100% correct, even after seeing and hearing the bands.

 

One way to start training yourself is to watch as many bands as possible, then, after the contest, look at the scores and compare those with your impressions. Also realize there is no way for those of us in the stands to have any real idea what the individual judges are seeing and hearing on the field (unless they were judging Hebron on Saturday apparently...).

 

So specifically College Park. I know my ears thought they sounded terrific, and apparently the music ensemble judge agreed, as they were ranked 6th. Music individual had them at 15th, which means there was something at field level that was a bit off that wasn't apparent at the ensemble level.  Overall they were 11th in music, so right on the edge of finals. Visually, I can honestly say they didn't stand out in my mind. I remember the cages, so there is something to build on. And looking at the visual scores, they were 15th in both ensemble and individual, and 14th combined. Their music GE was right on for finals, with a 10th place showing, but the lack of visual impact dropped their overall GE to 11th. Still very good, but just outside finals. So my take from this is that they fell short visually, and were probably a finals band musically. And thinking back on my impressions, that actually agrees with my memory. So using your eyes and ears to make your thoughts, then comparing that to what judges think can help train those of us that aren't so into the fine details and technical aspects.

 

For most of us, music is easier than visual. I've been trying to hone my visual evaluation by doing what I talk about above, and I'm starting to get better. Basics from spacing, marching in step, making forms correctly, smooth form transitions, not have to make an emergency adjustment to miss someone else, not tripping or falling on tarps, little skip steps that are aligned with music passages, guard tosses that nail the timing with the music, so many things go into the visual evaluations that I'm just scratching the surface on. Some shows are so big, it is almost impossible to see everything going on in one viewing. How do you judge that? I have no idea. I'm sure people could write pages on this. But ultimately at the top level it often comes down to subtle things. Did you notice in our show during the 4th movement that the band has a double musical hit that they actually take a little jump and switch feet positions boom boom while playing that hit? That is very hard to do and maintain good music output. It is also very subtle, and probably wasn't noticed by many people - but I bet the judges did.

 

If you haven't found it already, a good place for the score comparison is HornRank. The Conroe prelim scores are here: https://www.hornrank.com/2018/10/houston-prelims-oct-6-2018.html which I used for my comment.

[LeanderMomma]

Wow was it ever close between the top 3!!

[TWHSParent]

Wow was it ever close between the top 3!!

 

Yes it was.

 

Something else I noticed - Bowie had several performers trip, and one that actually fell on a tarp they had right behind the front ensemble during their prelims run. During their finals run, there was no tarp there. Will be interesting if that will now be a permanent change.

[LeanderMomma]

Yes it was.

 

Something else I noticed - Bowie had several performers trip, and one that actually fell on a tarp they had right behind the front ensemble during their prelims run. During their finals run, there was no tarp there. Will be interesting if that will now be a permanent change.

Oh I missed that! It was probably easier to see those types of mishaps from inside the stadium rather than online. I always get nervous by those tarps, especially when a corner curls up or I notice kids tripping on them.

 

Speaking of tarps. This may or may not be the right place for this, but what do y’all think of O’Fallon covering the entire field again this year with the white tarps? I know folks seemed to love it in St Louis and Indianapolis last fall, but I ain’t gonna lie, I absolutely HATE it!! I hope it doesn’t become a lasting trend because YUCK.

 

Yeah, I definitely have strong opinions about tarps. And again, that’s one of a zillion reasons nobody is asking me to be a judge.

[TWHSParent]

Oh I missed that! It was probably easier to see those types of mishaps from inside the stadium rather than online. I always get nervous by those tarps, especially when a corner curls up or I notice kids tripping on them.

 

Speaking of tarps. This may or may not be the right place for this, but what do y’all think of O’Fallon covering the entire field again this year with the white tarps? I know folks seemed to love it in St Louis and Indianapolis last fall, but I ain’t gonna lie, I absolutely HATE it!! I hope it doesn’t become a lasting trend because YUCK.

 

Yeah, I definitely have strong opinions about tarps. And again, that’s one of a zillion reasons nobody is asking me to be a judge.

 

It was certainly unusual, and I can certainly say that when they took it off the field at Indy, it seemed the entire stadium needed more lights since everything appeared to be dramatically darker.

 

It actually worked better than you might think, especially live in the stadium. I think it translates poorly on the FloMarching stream. I guess I'm indifferent about tarps unless they get in the way, then I think they should disappear.

[wheels]

Having missed the competition, I am surprised to see Cy-Fair in the top 5. I figured they would be in the 6-8 range. Was their performance that good?

 

Yes. It was pretty close between Cy-Fair, Oak Ridge, and Seven Lakes, and each program had a great show. Bowie wasn't that far ahead of them in 4th either, and Churchill made great strides over the last week in cleaning their show from the Austin regional, but still finished 8th behind them. They absolutely deserved their placements and are bands to consider for San Antonio (BOA and UIL). Don't forget Seven Lakes finished second at McAllen, and their show has done nothing but improve in the 2 weeks since.

I am new to the marching band scene and may not know what I'm talking about but I have a question.  First I absolutely mean no disrespect to Cy-Fair but in my eyes and many sitting around us thought the bands listed above plus SFA had better shows then Cy-Fairs.  A few people mentioned Cy-Fair has a good reputation as a quality band and i'm not disputing that they aren't at all.  So being new my question is ... Does a schools reputation usually earn them a few extra points from judges or a preconceived ranking based on their rep ? Again not hating on Cy-Fair, enjoyed their show, just thought others were better.

[LostChoirGuy]

I think it has more to do with the fact that bands with a history of success have mastered implementation of fundamentals that may not be as noticeable but do well in scoring. This may be evident in the individual visual or individual music captions, or it may be evident in the other captions as well. Those bands are really good at crafting shows with the perfect formula for getting the scores they need because they know what the judges are looking for after years of experience.

 

That being said, sometimes I feel that in general effect we expect the overall effect to be better for programs that we know are good and it may have an impact on our perception of how they perform.

[FaultLineBlues]

I am new to the marching band scene and may not know what I'm talking about but I have a question. First I absolutely mean no disrespect to Cy-Fair but in my eyes and many sitting around us thought the bands listed above plus SFA had better shows then Cy-Fairs. A few people mentioned Cy-Fair has a good reputation as a quality band and i'm not disputing that they aren't at all. So being new my question is ... Does a schools reputation usually earn them a few extra points from judges or a preconceived ranking based on their rep ? Again not hating on Cy-Fair, enjoyed their show, just thought others were better.

There are talks about "slotting", but I hear that more in the drum corps community than I do in BoA. I don't think a band's reputation gets them much, point wise. For example L.D. Bell has a history of excellence, but judges aren't skewing any scores in their favor.

[Fwguard17]

I am new to the marching band scene and may not know what I'm talking about but I have a question.  First I absolutely mean no disrespect to Cy-Fair but in my eyes and many sitting around us thought the bands listed above plus SFA had better shows then Cy-Fairs.  A few people mentioned Cy-Fair has a good reputation as a quality band and i'm not disputing that they aren't at all.  So being new my question is ... Does a schools reputation usually earn them a few extra points from judges or a preconceived ranking based on their rep ? Again not hating on Cy-Fair, enjoyed their show, just thought others were better.

This is a pretty common thought but I do not believe that it is the case.  If you look at LD Bell for example, they fell off in a huge way a few years ago, missing finals at competitions left and right just a couple of years after winning BOA San Antonio and medalling at State.  They have the most regional wins in history but I don't think that they get any sort of bump because of their name.  In addition, to your point specifcally, Stephen F Austin is a band program that has a HUGE reputation (has won the houston regional more than anyone) so if anything, I would think that they would get the reputation bump

[wheels]

Thanks for the lessons, not sure I'll ever know exactly what to be looking for though. For the uninformed like me maybe it was the eye candy of the props from the other schools that swayed or awed us. I'm sure like any competition that's judged ie gymnastics or figure skating there will always be questions about scoring and those who see it differently. 

[LostChoirGuy]

You are not alone in the difficulty of determining placements from an audience's perspective.  Sometimes you just can't know.  The judges have the unique perspective of only looking at a single aspect of the performance at once while we as audience members are focused on being entertained and tend to rank the bands based on how impressive and entertaining they are.  The more experienced audience members will be able to notice marching technique and forms and hear intonation issues, but it is very difficult to pay attention to all of these things at once and we really never get an idea of individual music performance.

[MarchingBandNerd]

Even though most of the excitement has died down, I’d like to thank everyone who came out to support us band kids, whether it be live or not. Personally speaking, placing in the top five is an awesome achievement for the Cy-Fair band! It really shows how much our hard work has paid off throughout these past few years. Even with all the rain we’ve been getting, we’ve been able to show up this season and I couldn’t be more proud. As a current senior, I’m so thrilled and am looking forward to seeing how far we can go! Congrats to everyone who competed, and good luck to you all throughout the rest of this season

[Rudedog34]

Oh I missed that! It was probably easier to see those types of mishaps from inside the stadium rather than online. I always get nervous by those tarps, especially when a corner curls up or I notice kids tripping on them.

 

Speaking of tarps. This may or may not be the right place for this, but what do y’all think of O’Fallon covering the entire field again this year with the white tarps? I know folks seemed to love it in St Louis and Indianapolis last fall, but I ain’t gonna lie, I absolutely HATE it!! I hope it doesn’t become a lasting trend because YUCK.

 

Yeah, I definitely have strong opinions about tarps. And again, that’s one of a zillion reasons nobody is asking me to be a judge.

[Rudedog34]

Bowie had 2 guard go down due to the same tarp at Austin. 2 shows in a row, something had to give.

[principalagent]

I'm 100% on the Tarptown train. I have a shirt to prove it! I don't want to see everyone do it, but if it becomes their identity I am 100% here for it!

[JeremiahW]

There are talks about "slotting", but I hear that more in the drum corps community than I do in BoA. I don't think a band's reputation gets them much, point wise. For example L.D. Bell has a history of excellence, but judges aren't skewing any scores in their favor.

 

I think some (including myself) would disagree with you about LD Bell, but I understand your point.

[natertater21000]

I think some (including myself) would disagree with you about LD Bell, but I understand your point.

I'd imagine if judges really were skewing scores in their favor they wouldn't have been watching SA finals last year instead of participating in them. That's not to say that I don't believe that reputation plays a role for some bands though(a certain school from Illinois has proven to me that it sometimes does) I just don't think LD Bell is one of the groups benefiting from it.

[LeanderMomma]

I'm 100% on the Tarptown train. I have a shirt to prove it! I don't want to see everyone do it, but if it becomes their identity I am 100% here for it!

well we all know it takes me awhile to get on the BANDwagon!

[MarchingBandNerd]

I'd imagine if judges really were skewing scores in their favor they wouldn't have been watching SA finals last year instead of participating in them. That's not to say that I don't believe that reputation plays a role for some bands though(a certain school from Illinois has proven to me that it sometimes does) I just don't think LD Bell is one of the groups benefiting from it.

I agree that the reputation of some bands definitely helps them placement-wise. However, those are usually the bands that place high at State and BOA competitions anyway, so it’s not like those placements are undeserved. I have noticed this helps out some bands more than others though. I wonder why?

[TubaMomof1]

I actually enjoyed Cy-Fair's show and preferred it over Bowie's, to be honest.  I felt the props in Bowie's actually took away from the performance instead of adding to it.  It seemed like they struggled to keep all the inflatable things in place and limited where they marched.  Cy-Fair's drill seems challenging to me, but I'm not a judge so what do I know lol

[WoodlandsMom4ever]

I actually enjoyed Cy-Fair's show and preferred it over Bowie's, to be honest. I felt the props in Bowie's actually took away from the performance instead of adding to it. It seemed like they struggled to keep all the inflatable things in place and limited where they marched. Cy-Fair's drill seems challenging to me, but I'm not a judge so what do I know lol

I honestly was so distracted by Bowie’s props and trying to figure out what they were- that I have no idea what their music or marching was like... it completely derailed me from paying attention to the performance at all.