UIL 5A State Marching Contest 2023

[Spirit]

There’s been a lot of debate about big bands vs smaller ones, but honestly, it’s a formula with the right combination of things. Not all big bands are good. Even money to buy the best shows and equipment won’t work if you don’t build a successful program from the ground up that I believe quite frankly starts in the feeder schools. You can throw all the money in the world at a program, but size and money are not the be-all end-all, and do not automatically equal success. 
 

With that said, success definitely begets success. And you’ll have that when you have a fine arts department committed to building a program (and yes, willing to recognize the value in spending some money to do it), when your staff is willing to spend the effort in time and sweat equity to get there, when you’ve earned the support of the community, and when you are also able to attract and inspire your students to work hard to achieve. Then, success will come. 
 

Commitment + Staff + Hard work + Support + Money.  

[ClutchATX]

Frisco and Leander have very similar demographics. Tech heavy upper middle class. In other words, lots of "nerds" that played in band when they were in school that have money, time and resources to help and support. Lots of stay at home or work from home parents. 

The interesting about CP is that won a few state championships in football and other sports also, but somehow band is still what the cool kids do. Choosing between football/sports or band is a real dilemma for incoming freshman. 

[BandDad4Life]

8 hours ago, Spirit said:

There’s been a lot of debate about big bands vs smaller ones, but honestly, it’s a formula with the right combination of things. Not all big bands are good. Even money to buy the best shows and equipment won’t work if you don’t build a successful program from the ground up that I believe quite frankly starts in the feeder schools. You can throw all the money in the world at a program, but size and money are not the be-all end-all, and do not automatically equal success. 
 

With that said, success definitely begets success. And you’ll have that when you have a fine arts department committed to building a program (and yes, willing to recognize the value in spending some money to do it), when your staff is willing to spend the effort in time and sweat equity to get there, when you’ve earned the support of the community, and when you are also able to attract and inspire your students to work hard to achieve. Then, success will come. 
 

Commitment + Staff + Hard work + Support + Money.  

Well said. It’s a combination of several things to make a program successful. Having a supportive Fine Arts Dept. Hiring the best band directors. Giving them the budget to hire the best show designers and music arrangers. Trust me, you don’t want me doing any of that. I know nothing about music. Putting kids in uniforms that make them feel proud. Getting good equipment so they’re not using broken down used items. Starting to get the kids interested and playing well EARLY in middle school to help build up the program. But the most important thing is execution, no matter how big or small a band is. If you’re not playing or marching well, you won’t go far. 

[LostChoirGuy]

13 hours ago, RRBND27 said:

Exactly!!!!! I've been saying this all along! Big facts! If you are out here in the DFW metroplex then know about the the Friscos, Prospers, Lewisville, etc.

They've built so many new schools literally a few miles from each other and converted what could've been 2 or 3 6A schools to making them all 5A smh ( Frisco ISD ) 

Lebanon Trail, Wakeland, Lonestar? 😲 3 out of the 251 schools from the same district in the 5A State Championship finals? So unreal.

Money talks .. MONEY absolutely talks for sure!! 🎯

I'm not sure why you think making multiple 5A schools in the same district is a bad thing.  I can see how it bothers you from a competitive standpoint, but they do it for the quality of education the students are able to receive and the increased opportunities for each individual.  I would never call that a bad thing.

[Spirit]

14 hours ago, RRBND27 said:

Exactly!!!!! I've been saying this all along! Big facts! If you are out here in the DFW metroplex then know about the the Friscos, Prospers, Lewisville, etc.

They've built so many new schools literally a few miles from each other and converted what could've been 2 or 3 6A schools to making them all 5A smh ( Frisco ISD ) 

Lebanon Trail, Wakeland, Lonestar? 😲 3 out of the 251 schools from the same district in the 5A State Championship finals? So unreal.

Money talks .. MONEY absolutely talks for sure!! 🎯

I’m from Frisco, and have been since the boom started here around 2001. When we moved here there was exactly ONE high school, so there has been NO ‘conversion’ of schools to make them smaller. I would kindly ask you to not spread misinformation about a situation you know nothing about. Frisco made a decision from the get-go that we wanted a ‘smaller’ school model, and we have continued to maintain that since the start. It gives our kids far more opportunities to participate in things, and there’s absolutely NOTHING whatsoever wrong with wanting that. 
 

Frisco ISD isn’t the only school district with three high schools in finals. There is another school district that has fielded three bands in finals, and that district usually ends up sweeping the medals. Why are you focusing your ire at Frisco?? Why is there any ire at all for any program?? 

[MelloMan06]

2 hours ago, Spirit said:

I’m from Frisco, and have been since the boom started here around 2001. When we moved here there was exactly ONE high school, so there has been NO ‘conversion’ of schools to make them smaller. I would kindly ask you to not spread misinformation about a situation you know nothing about. Frisco made a decision from the get-go that we wanted a ‘smaller’ school model, and we have continued to maintain that since the start. It gives our kids far more opportunities to participate in things, and there’s absolutely NOTHING whatsoever wrong with wanting that. 
 

Frisco ISD isn’t the only school district with three high schools in finals. There is another school district that has fielded three bands in finals, and that district usually ends up sweeping the medals. Why are you focusing your ire at Frisco?? Why is there any ire at all for any program?? 

As someone from an FISD Program I absolutely agree, we are lucky to have the funding that we do, but most/all schools have our own fundraising programs internally outside of district funding. Which we work for, and we work toward the goal of state finals. The smaller school model works for our district, and we all work extremely hard to get where we are.

[MikeKyu]

45 minutes ago, MelloMan06 said:

As someone from an FISD Program I absolutely agree, we are lucky to have the funding that we do, but most/all schools have our own fundraising programs internally outside of district funding. Which we work for, and we work toward the goal of state finals. The smaller school model works for our district, and we all work extremely hard to get where we are.

Very similar to Leander ISD. Loads of fund raising year round. High yearly dues.  The marching program consumes about 75% of the yearly budget when the band is not traveling out of state in the spring. 

[RRBND27]

4 hours ago, LostChoirGuy said:

I'm not sure why you think making multiple 5A schools in the same district is a bad thing.  I can see how it bothers you from a competitive standpoint, but they do it for the quality of education the students are able to receive and the increased opportunities for each individual.  I would never call that a bad thing.

Never said it was a bad thing and it doesn't bother me. I was just going off numbers of bigger bands vs smaller bands in the Finals. The numbers speak for themselves.

But I don't blame the districts either. It's the smart thing to do. More schools, more fine arts, more education, more kids, more growth, more opportunities, more wins, more revenue, more money, etc. 

I got it. Win win for them.

[RRBND27]

4 hours ago, Spirit said:

I’m from Frisco, and have been since the boom started here around 2001. When we moved here there was exactly ONE high school, so there has been NO ‘conversion’ of schools to make them smaller. I would kindly ask you to not spread misinformation about a situation you know nothing about. Frisco made a decision from the get-go that we wanted a ‘smaller’ school model, and we have continued to maintain that since the start. It gives our kids far more opportunities to participate in things, and there’s absolutely NOTHING whatsoever wrong with wanting that. 
 

Frisco ISD isn’t the only school district with three high schools in finals. There is another school district that has fielded three bands in finals, and that district usually ends up sweeping the medals. Why are you focusing your ire at Frisco?? Why is there any ire at all for any program?? 

Never said it was a bad thing and it doesn't bother me. I was just going off numbers of bigger bands vs smaller bands in the Finals. The numbers speak for themselves.

But I don't blame the districts either. It's the smart thing to do. More schools, more fine arts, more education, more kids, more growth, more opportunities, more wins, more revenue, more money, etc. 

I got it. Win win for them and well you since you're from Frisco lol.  👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

[teacherman]

22 hours ago, RRBND27 said:

Exactly!!!!! I've been saying this all along! Big facts! If you are out here in the DFW metroplex then know about the the Friscos, Prospers, Lewisville, etc.

They've built so many new schools literally a few miles from each other and converted what could've been 2 or 3 6A schools to making them all 5A smh ( Frisco ISD ) 

Lebanon Trail, Wakeland, Lonestar? 😲 3 out of the 251 schools from the same district in the 5A State Championship finals? So unreal.

Money talks .. MONEY absolutely talks for sure!! 🎯

Anyone want to look at Title 1 versus non-Title 1 schools? Probably not. 

[BandDad4Life]

The competition side of things and rivalries are fun. It’s great to see how competitive the DFW area is with bands. So many great programs out there. 

[celesta]

3 hours ago, teacherman said:

Anyone want to look at Title 1 versus non-Title 1 schools? Probably not. 

If I interpreted the TEA 2020 data correctly, the following are Title 1 schools that participated in 5A State. Everyone else isn't Title 1.

Roma (10)
Poteet (17)
Pflugerville (22)
Pioneer (25)
North Mesquite (26)
J.M. Hanks (28)
Sharyland (30)
PSJA North (31)
Pine Tree (32)
Lopez (33)
Pace (34)
Lubbock (35)

It's worth noting that there are very successful non-Title 1 high schools with several MS/JH/ES feeders listed as Title 1. Low income percent also varies a lot depending on the school, ranging from the 40s to almost 100%. From TEA's figures, there wasn't a clear trend between placement and low income percentages.

Do what you will with this information.

[utee94]

On 10/5/2023 at 1:11 AM, MikeKyu said:

So, while I think Rouse is going to have an amazing season I am not 100% sold on them over Cedar Park. I believe that this Rouse show is going to hurt some feelings throughout the season. At Austin BOA, Rouse made their points against Cedar Park in music. cedar Park tends to wait until the last 2 weeks to really clean up music and dynamics. they have always struggled in the GE department. This season the show is not only a GE monster but it also does what no other 5A band is doing --exposing every member while placing high demand on them. This season feels a lot like 2019 when Rouse beat CP at every show....until finals at UIL. This season I just don't see Requiem having the top end finish8ng kick that I can see developing from Cedar Park. I believe they are going to finish 1-2 in UIL this season but I get the feeling thay they places are going to switch in either semi-finals or finals. Excited to see how it turns out, especially with this most likely being CP's last year in 5A. 

I'm just a lurker here but I was reading through this entire thread the other day after Finals, and just had to register in order to quote this post.

WOW, how prophetic!  

Both of these shows were outstanding, and what a treat to get to watch them compete and evolve throughout the year.

I also thoroughly enjoyed Wakeland and Forney's shows at State, and of course Leander. 

I count myself as very fortunate to be able to enjoy so much excellent music and marching here in the Great State of Texas.

 

[clarinetistkai05]

On 11/8/2023 at 8:23 AM, ClutchATX said:

I was told by a few people that one of the Percussion judges is notoriously inconsistent with other judges which is why the Percussion scores so much different from the ones in preliminaries. 

My son who is a freshman told me there were lots of tears last night from the seniors and all the underclassman that will miss them. He got a couple notes from the seniors that made him tear up. I don't know if this normal, but it's probably one of the things that I really appreciate about our experience with the LISD band program. I know the term servant leader is overused these days but I think it's definitely the best description of the upperclassmen I've interacted with. 

Late reply, but after our finals run; every single senior was crying their eyes out, myself included. We cried long enough that flutes and clarinets couldn’t take their instruments back to the bus, so we had to bring them to full retreat.

[JohnSmith]

On 11/9/2023 at 10:40 PM, clarinetistkai05 said:

Forney raises their own money for shows because the funding we get is not so great. Most the money we get is from these fundraisers and we put the money towards making the season happen (uniforms, food, transportation, etc). What makes Forney Forney is the band program itself. We almost never talk about results, and the directors have instilled a you reap what you sow mindset into us. Also, Forney starts kids as early as 6th grade, and that’s why we have so many joining as well is because of this success.

 

Ultimately, it’s not just money, it’s what you do with the program that gets you to where you are.

I was going to say something similar about Frisco Schools, the district gives them almost nothing, and end up having to do big fundraisers to raise anything. When I went to Wakeland a few years ago we were raising less than 100k, which was barely enough to get by with. 

Not trying to bash on other programs by any means but money doesn't mean a program is good or bad, but I will say that schools that have loads of money tend to be better than schools with none. 

[natertater21000]

37 minutes ago, JohnSmith said:

I was going to say something similar about Frisco Schools, the district gives them almost nothing, and end up having to do big fundraisers to raise anything. When I went to Wakeland a few years ago we were raising less than 100k, which was barely enough to get by with. 

Not trying to bash on other programs by any means but money doesn't mean a program is good or bad, but I will say that schools that have loads of money tend to be better than schools with none. 

I think this is a very common misconception when it comes to a lot of these bands. I don't know a single school district that gives their bands a full budget to fund the entire show. Leander raised over 100,000 dollars through their March-a-thon fundraiser and every last dollar was spent on the show. Transportation, food, contest registration, props, drill, music, etc. These bands work extremely hard on and off the field to make everything happen. 

[clarinetistkai05]

8 minutes ago, natertater21000 said:

I think this is a very common misconception when it comes to a lot of these bands. I don't know a single school district that gives their bands a full budget to fund the entire show. Leander raised over 100,000 dollars through their March-a-thon fundraiser and every last dollar was spent on the show. Transportation, food, contest registration, props, drill, music, etc. These bands work extremely hard on and off the field to make everything happen. 

we raised 70k through marchaton and have also used all the money from concession stands and other fundraisers to make these shows possible.

[natertater21000]

1 minute ago, clarinetistkai05 said:

we raised 70k through marchaton and have also used all the money from concession stands and other fundraisers to make these shows possible.

Exactly, School districts don't just hand the band program a mountain of cash and say "now go win state!"

[clarinetistkai05]

3 hours ago, natertater21000 said:

Exactly, School districts don't just hand the band program a mountain of cash and say "now go win state!"

exactly! We have to work for that! that’s what frustrates me, I used to think that schools did that until this year when I realized that. wish I had realized this sooner.

[northtexasshawty]

On 11/9/2023 at 11:49 PM, Spirit said:

There’s been a lot of debate about big bands vs smaller ones, but honestly, it’s a formula with the right combination of things. Not all big bands are good. Even money to buy the best shows and equipment won’t work if you don’t build a successful program from the ground up that I believe quite frankly starts in the feeder schools. You can throw all the money in the world at a program, but size and money are not the be-all end-all, and do not automatically equal success. 
 

With that said, success definitely begets success. And you’ll have that when you have a fine arts department committed to building a program (and yes, willing to recognize the value in spending some money to do it), when your staff is willing to spend the effort in time and sweat equity to get there, when you’ve earned the support of the community, and when you are also able to attract and inspire your students to work hard to achieve. Then, success will come. 
 

Commitment + Staff + Hard work + Support + Money.  

exactly. and although being a smaller BAND in the big school classifications, 5A and 6A can really hurt you-we’ve seen multiple times that small bands can compete especially in 5A. Highland park up until they moved to 6a for example, they were the silver medalist in 2019!!! their band is probably HALF the size of Cedar Park. Another example is Roma- they regularly make state finals, and they are a 2A school in BOA. Argyle is making their way up to the top of UIL 5A as well and they are like a fraction of the size all the other top schools in area B 5a.

[MikeKyu]

On 11/11/2023 at 7:41 AM, utee94 said:

I'm just a lurker here but I was reading through this entire thread the other day after Finals, and just had to register in order to quote this post.

WOW, how prophetic!  

Both of these shows were outstanding, and what a treat to get to watch them compete and evolve throughout the year.

I also thoroughly enjoyed Wakeland and Forney's shows at State, and of course Leander. 

I count myself as very fortunate to be able to enjoy so much excellent music and marching here in the Great State of Texas.

 

Thanks! I was given a lot of grief over this post but I deeply believed it. Watching shows progress over the course of a season and guessing how they will progress is a hobby of mine. Seeing the CP show the first weekend I knew that they were going to peak right at the end. Watching the Rouse show I felt like they peaked and rode that peak much earlier in the season. 

Yes, both shows were incredible. I loved watching them progress over the season. Requiem is a gorgeous show, massive GE moments, well performed, and beautifully presented. I would rate Requiem in the top 5 shows in 5A over the last 5 years. BOA wise it is probably the best BOA show by a 5A band. But when it comes to UIL there are elements that I saw in Cedar Park's show from the first contest I felt that they had the higher absolute top end score due to the difficulty and demand of their show. 

Wakeland was another beautiful show but technically far behind Rouse and Cedar Park. Leander's show was incredible. From 2014-2019 Leander had my favorite high brass section in the state.  It is a shame that the sick hit Leander right before finals. 

Yes, we are fortunate to see not only so close of a contest but highly varying and creative shows here in Texas. 

[PHSalumni]

On 2/20/2023 at 12:23 PM, clarinetistkai05 said:

Wanna say that Forney could be in Top 5 now with Highland Park gone, but truthfully it depends on what happens with the show.

highland park moved down to 5a for next year 

[clarinetistkai05]

On 12/30/2023 at 9:15 AM, PHSalumni said:

highland park moved down to 5a for next year 

glad we’re going up at the very least. 

[3rdGenBand]

On 7/24/2023 at 2:11 PM, Flute goddess said:

I think Lebanon Trail has a fair chance too. As some posted before Wakeland has all new directors, will be interesting to see if they can come together that quickly.

I’m glad Wakeland did well despite new directors.   But the best part was that they had FUN this year. There were too many restrictions in the past, and I feel like it affected them because they were so exhausted and mentally worn down all the time.  

[Tubalord11]

4 hours ago, 3rdGenBand said:

I’m glad Wakeland did well despite new directors.   But the best part was that they had FUN this year. There were too many restrictions in the past, and I feel like it affected them because they were so exhausted and mentally worn down all the time.  

Can you elaborate? I’ve only heard great things about their previous staff and how much the kids loved them so I’m a bit confused