2025 BOA Grand National Championships (Nov. 13-15)

[Rubisco]

7 hours ago, TWHSParent said:

The Avon show in person is a lovely thing and just flows so well.

Carmel in person is music to the ears, but less visually appealing than Avon.

I love that you've seen these two bands in person. I find that perspective really valuable.

9 hours ago, packwick said:

buuuut srsly wondering if they can clean this ending in 3 weeks. pretty much from the mambo brass lick to the end needs work work work.

I can't say I completely understand why you're that concerned. There are four different videos of TWHS from UIL Area finals on YouTube right now, and I think both the design and performance are outstanding -- hanging with the top in my mind. The new ending is awesome. Is it a bit dirty? Yes, but so are the other bands.

6 hours ago, slowbrass said:

I think it’s fair to say that among the groups in FloMo’s echelon, their demand trends toward the lower side. That’s the beauty of their designs, layering relatively simple concepts on top of each other until the final product reflects the complexity of their theme. Their calling card is cleanliness, and the most successful seasons they’ve had are generally the seasons when they are able to polish every single moment till it sparkles.

I think in some ways the shows are less demanding, like drill velocity and step size, but then in other ways they're challenging. Somebody mentioned choreo, and I think that's true compared to at least a few of their peers. I think another challenge, which is related to being "big" all the time visually, is the listening environment being spread out across the field. Flower Mound also plays a lot of weird complex chords that can be hard to clean.

I think they're great this year, yet again. Will they win Nationals? I don't know yet, and I probably won't until it's announced.

[packwick]

12 hours ago, Rubisco said:

I love that you've seen these two bands in person. I find that perspective really valuable.

tbh id be interested in his perspective even if he hadnt seen those two titans live. has some understanding of what's on the boa rubric, whiiich is pretty rare.

i sense a bit of the Force in this one, Masters Saucedo and Jones and Phillips!! lol

@Tubalord11 too!! now that dude puts in the work w/ all his commentary for both outdoor and indoor. methinks we're all super thankful for that!! future judge!!!

[lost]

I personally just wish Flower Mound didn’t wear those skirts. Makes their technique impossible to see and I’m puzzled as to why they’re not being tanked in individual visual for it.

I’m seeing the same hype here for them than in 2017 and 2021 so I’m definitely skeptical in whether they’re actually competitive for the eagle.

Right now I’m giving the edge to Marcus.

[Tubalord11]

2 hours ago, packwick said:

tbh id be interested in his perspective even if he hadnt seen those two titans live. has some understanding of what's on the boa rubric, whiiich is pretty rare.

i sense a bit of the Force in this one, Masters Saucedo and Jones and Phillips!! lol

@Tubalord11 too!! now that dude puts in the work w/ all his commentary for both outdoor and indoor. methinks we're all super thankful for that!! future judge!!!

Lmao, I fear I’m far from qualified to be a judge, but I appreciate your kind words  

[TWHSParent]

2 hours ago, lost said:

I personally just wish Flower Mound didn’t wear those skirts. Makes their technique impossible to see and I’m puzzled as to why they’re not being tanked in individual visual for it.

I’m seeing the same hype here for them than in 2017 and 2021 so I’m definitely skeptical in whether they’re actually competitive for the eagle.

Right now I’m giving the edge to Marcus.

To me, the biggest flaw in the 2021 show was the staging - that ramp was more of a hindrance than a help.

I certainly see the hype train this year, and also thought it was similar to previous years. I think this is a better design than 2021, but not nearly as fun. Performance levels are quite high, of course. They do an outstanding job getting the performers to do their best.

Skirts seem to be an up and coming thing. Several bands are using them across the country. They can use them to good effect and if a bonus is difficulty seeing technique, then hey! Although that probably doesn't really help with the visual judge on the field.

Marcus - I really haven't see that one recently, so I don't have a good take on it. What I recall was well performed, but maybe a little on the safe side - I don't recall anything intriguing in the show, just a well performed solid show with great music. I'll try to find something recent and take a look, or wait until state prelims. What I recall would not exceed Carmel or Avon, but maybe hang with Blue Springs.

[TWHSParent]

4 hours ago, packwick said:

tbh id be interested in his perspective even if he hadnt seen those two titans live. has some understanding of what's on the boa rubric, whiiich is pretty rare.

i sense a bit of the Force in this one, Masters Saucedo and Jones and Phillips!! lol

@Tubalord11 too!! now that dude puts in the work w/ all his commentary for both outdoor and indoor. methinks we're all super thankful for that!! future judge!!!

Thank you for the kind words, too. I have this tendency to dive pretty deep into things that really interest me, and since I picked up watching marching band again, I've done my best to learn the rubric and watch lots of shows. Tie that with my ancient history basic music education and my physics degree, and you get someone that tries hard to understand the things that make a show well designed and well performed. Plus I have a pretty decent relative pitch ear on the music, which doesn't hurt...

[Rubisco]

I think Flower Mound has given us more of a reason to be hot on them this year than in 2017 or 2021. I don't actually remember them being all that talked up in 2017. They lost the Dallas regional to Hebron that year, after CTJ had posted gigantic September scores. Then they were 6th at San Antonio, below 4th place Avon. In 2021, the "hype train" started a lot later. I feel like it wasn't really until Nationals itself that people predicted the show would win and were shocked it was quite far off the top. (I was not. Even my early season rankings of the Nationals bands were pretty accurate that year.) As I recall, the early- and mid-season hype train in 2021 was for CTJ, and I was not quite aboard that one either. I knew pretty much immediately Broken Arrow would win Nationals.

I would be surprised if Flower Mound doesn't at least improve on their 5th place record at GN this year. They can beat at least one of Broken Arrow, Carmel, The Woodlands, and Avon. That's their biggest competition, as I see it. As I said in the San Antonio thread, Flower Mound has maybe the best designed show in Texas, along with TWHS. I feel more confident saying that after watching most of the "must-watch" UIL Area performances.

(I have no opinion on the skirts.)

I'm glad that Marcus is being brought up here, because we're not talking nearly enough about all the other Texas bands attending this event. I find Marcus's music this year really fascinating. Have they done this sort of minimalist Philip Glass music before? It's so different from traditional Marcus. I saw their Area J finals performance, and thought they played with wonderful control. Their percussion always gets singled out, and I think for good reason. Insane clarity and musicality on really difficult skills. I was surprised they didn't win that caption at Area, but Area results are often poor predictors of late-season results. Now their visual program, on the other hand, leaves a lot to be desired. It pretty much dies for a period of time during the percussion break, and I'm wondering if they simply haven't filled that in with movement yet. They seem to bloom later these days.

Reagan has me a little concerned whether they'll make finals here. Usually, I'm not worried about them. I think the show design is there again -- it has lots of really effective moments -- but since that first director change, the performances have gotten a little rickety. They need to rediscover some of that control they had in 2019.

Dripping Springs, now that I think about it, I have NOT watched their Area video and need to go do that! Just out of curiosity, who designs for them now? I recall finding their WaLaLa theme very interesting. 😄

[TWHSParent]

9 hours ago, Rubisco said:

I think Flower Mound has given us more of a reason to be hot on them this year than in 2017 or 2021. I don't actually remember them being all that talked up in 2017. They lost the Dallas regional to Hebron that year, after CTJ had posted gigantic September scores. Then they were 6th at San Antonio, below 4th place Avon. In 2021, the "hype train" started a lot later. I feel like it wasn't really until Nationals itself that people predicted the show would win and were shocked it was quite far off the top. (I was not. Even my early season rankings of the Nationals bands were pretty accurate that year.) As I recall, the early- and mid-season hype train in 2021 was for CTJ, and I was not quite aboard that one either. I knew pretty much immediately Broken Arrow would win Nationals.

I would be surprised if Flower Mound doesn't at least improve on their 5th place record at GN this year. They can beat at least one of Broken Arrow, Carmel, The Woodlands, and Avon. That's their biggest competition, as I see it. As I said in the San Antonio thread, Flower Mound has maybe the best designed show in Texas, along with TWHS. I feel more confident saying that after watching most of the "must-watch" UIL Area performances.

(I have no opinion on the skirts.)

I'm glad that Marcus is being brought up here, because we're not talking nearly enough about all the other Texas bands attending this event. I find Marcus's music this year really fascinating. Have they done this sort of minimalist Philip Glass music before? It's so different from traditional Marcus. I saw their Area J finals performance, and thought they played with wonderful control. Their percussion always gets singled out, and I think for good reason. Insane clarity and musicality on really difficult skills. I was surprised they didn't win that caption at Area, but Area results are often poor predictors of late-season results. Now their visual program, on the other hand, leaves a lot to be desired. It pretty much dies for a period of time during the percussion break, and I'm wondering if they simply haven't filled that in with movement yet. They seem to bloom later these days.

Reagan has me a little concerned whether they'll make finals here. Usually, I'm not worried about them. I think the show design is there again -- it has lots of really effective moments -- but since that first director change, the performances have gotten a little rickety. They need to rediscover some of that control they had in 2019.

Dripping Springs, now that I think about it, I have NOT watched their Area video and need to go do that! Just out of curiosity, who designs for them now? I recall finding their WaLaLa theme very interesting. 😄

I forgot that I will be traveling on Monday (to St. John, New Brunswick), so I probably won't get to see much of prelims. I'll hopefully be done with my work on Tuesday and back in the hotel for finals.

[TromboneGuy]

I feel Like Flo Mo Is gonna win 

[quenslays]

11 hours ago, Rubisco said:

Dripping Springs, now that I think about it, I have NOT watched their Area video and need to go do that! Just out of curiosity, who designs for them now? I recall finding their WaLaLa theme very interesting. 😄

I think Jason Robb designs for them now. Same guy who does Rouses design

[Rubisco]

4 hours ago, TromboneGuy said:

I feel Like Flo Mo Is gonna win 

It's certainly possible! I think if they dominate in BOA SA finals like they did last year, I would view them as favored to win GN heading into the contest. They've got some of the stiffest competition in the country at San Antonio.

To all the people who think Avon's visual will carry them here, I just want to point out that I thought the exact same thing in 2019. So, I was quite surprised when Vandy swept the 4A captions in semifinals. Of course, finals was more mixed, but I think it illustrates that, contrary to what some believe, BOA isn't all about the visuals. It's important, but the score is still music-skewed.

[TromboneGuy]

41 minutes ago, Rubisco said:

It's certainly possible! I think if they dominate in BOA SA finals like they did last year, I would view them as favored to win GN heading into the contest. They've got some of the stiffest competition in the country at San Antonio.

To all the people who think Avon's visual will carry them here, I just want to point out that I thought the exact same thing in 2019. So, I was quite surprised when Vandy swept the 4A captions in semifinals. Of course, finals was more mixed, but I think it illustrates that, contrary to what some believe, BOA isn't all about the visuals. It's important, but the score is still music-skewed.

I would agree I saw them at the area j and they sounded amazing and the visual was really good. But there is always a possibility that Avon visual will carry them but Idk but I'm excited to see the results!!

[TWHSParent]

Just a note - don't undervalue Avon's music and especially their music GE. While they likely won't win music they may not be so far behind, and they are masters of GE.

[Thanos]

8 hours ago, TromboneGuy said:

I feel Like Flo Mo Is gonna win 

I'm betting on it. I did the same thing when I saw them last year. Knew they'd win San Antonio in the end last year! The show this year is everything that made last year great and more! They have such a good shot at Nats!

[lost]

I’m a little concerned for Round Rock right now…I wonder what’s been troubling them. Seems like they’ve had a very turbulent few years.

[FaultLineBlues]

16 minutes ago, lost said:

I’m a little concerned for Round Rock right now…I wonder what’s been troubling them. Seems like they’ve had a very turbulent few years.

It feels like the students are being done a huge disservice with their show design as of late. Just confusing stuff happening as of late. I thought their show had some real potential at the beginning of the season, but with the full thing on field now, I'm a lot less positive on it. 

[averagemello]

What are y'alls thoughts about SLC this year? Last time they attended Grand Nats they placed 7th in finals after placing 22nd overall in prelims, but it looks like finals may be out of the cards for this trip based solely on what's been said here and on hornrank. Thoughts?

[LostChoirGuy]

1 hour ago, averagemello said:

What are y'alls thoughts about SLC this year? Last time they attended Grand Nats they placed 7th in finals after placing 22nd overall in prelims, but it looks like finals may be out of the cards for this trip based solely on what's been said here and on hornrank. Thoughts?

Given how deep the field is this year, I would think SLC would be happy if they manage to make it into the top 20, or even in the top 11 in their prelims panel.  I'd have them right around that cutoff.

[lost]

7 hours ago, averagemello said:

What are y'alls thoughts about SLC this year? Last time they attended Grand Nats they placed 7th in finals after placing 22nd overall in prelims, but it looks like finals may be out of the cards for this trip based solely on what's been said here and on hornrank. Thoughts?

I don’t think they’ll be in, but we also thought that in ‘22 so we’ll see. Very wealthy program, just seems they’re struggling to build a consistent culture.

[dds]

here are my predictions

1. FloMo

2. Avon

3. Broken Arrow

4. Carmel

5. Marcus

6. William Mason

7. Woodlands

8. Ronald Reagan

9. Bentonville

10. Blue Springs

11. Dripping Springs

12.SLC

[quenslays]

I think we will be seeing 5 texas bands in finals here!

flower mound

marcus

woodlands

reagan

dripping springs

[utee94]

What an incredible finals in San Antonio last night.  I can't wait to see how this Texas contingent does in Indianapolis. 

After seeing Flower Mound's show live, it's even more stunning.  So many little details happening simultaneously all over the field.  I think they've got the juice this year, but it'll be a great contest no matter the outcome.

[Hard Core Band Fan]

On 10/30/2025 at 3:37 PM, lost said:

I’m a little concerned for Round Rock right now…I wonder what’s been troubling them. Seems like they’ve had a very turbulent few years. 

They don't ever seem to have any carry-over from one year to the next, and they are always behind everyone else even later in the season. It would take a 2013 miracle for them to make finals this year. So far, they've only made finals in Austin, and in the bottom half. Big changes are needed for this program to ever be competitive again. Failure starts at the top.

[Colin Davis]

Less than a week from Indy and this is my prediction:
1. Flower Mound

2. Avon

3. Blue Springs

4. Carmel

5. Broken Arrow

6. The Woodlands

7. William Mason

8. Marcus

9. Ronald Reagan

10. Dobyns-Bennett

11. Wando

12. Dripping Springs

------------------------------
13. Fishers

14. Castle

[SharksAreCool]

Here’s my last minute predictions heading into tomorrow. Should be a start to a great grand nats.

 

1. FloMo

2. Avon

3. Broken Arrow

4. Marcus/Carmel

5. Carmel/Marcus

6. Woodlands

7. William Mason

8. Ronald Reagan

9. Blue Springs

10. Bentonville

11. Dobyns-Bennett

12. Dripping Springs

—————-

13. Fishers

14. Castle

15. Round Rock