TWHSParent

“You’re entitled to your opinion.   I’m entitled to mine. Yours is informed by no better evidence than mine is..”
Objection. Facts not in evidence. This statement has no basis for support and is therefore purely speculative.
“But I will say that there is evidence.”
Anecdotal evidence is largely meaningless, only empirical evidence matters. Due to the nature of this forum and some participant’s preferences neither of us will be allowed to openly discuss the evidence and I have no desire to take this conversation outside the forum. I’ve been down this path enough times before. Hang on to your opinion if it helps you rationalize outcomes and enjoy competitions. It didn’t help me when I was getting started.
“I will say also that I have heard, with my own ears, directors communicating that the phenomena does occur.”
So have I, generally from Directors struggling to rationalize their programs difficulties breaking through to the next level. Saying something happens doesn’t make it true.
“I’ve heard judges say it does occur.”
No comment. Addressing this directly would require breaking our programs Code of Conduct. I’m not going to do that. However, I will add that I notice you didn’t indicate whether the judges you heard said they have personally made decisions based on reputation or if they were saying they know about others who admit to doing it.
 “So it’s not just my opinion.”
Correct. Unfortunately it’s a very widely held fallacy. Again, that doesn’t make it true.
“If you reread my original post, I don’t quibble with it.”
No need. I noted that the first time. I’m not convinced that bears any relevance on the subject.
“Your esoteric explanation really dances around the key word- it’s subjective.    Just like gymnastics and ice skating - and therefore it uses criterion that aren’t objective.”
This activity is a combination of science and art. Of course it’s subjective; I did not suggest otherwise. One of the issues in UIL judging is that the relative value of these subjective preferences are not well defined. For example, are musical and visual accuracy more or less valuable than demand? This example, to a certain extent, also falls on a sliding scale of subjectivity but that doesn’t mean it can’t be better defined through documented video training examples. The NFL and NCAA use this option to clarify pass interference rules changing from well defined objectivity in the ‘70’s to the highly subjective mess of today’s game. Another example would be whether music and drill demand have higher value when performed in combination versus being performed separately. This one is actually defined on the judging sheet but we routinely see some bands highly rewarded for what amounts to “park and play” even though this is clearly not in compliance with the current judging sheet. Adjudication based entirely, or even just heavily, on personal preferences is not sustainable. As for the esoteric nature of my comment, you seem to have missed the point. There are people on this forum who can, and will, learn when given the opportunity, simply because they want too.
“Like reputation.“
Where exactly is “reputation” on the judging sheet? I’m not saying there are no Judges that have ever been influenced by reputation. But I am saying that it is a very small minority and also highly inappropriate. All a Judge has is their own reputation which is why they don’t let a bands reputation influence the outcome of a competition. Each performance must speak for itself or integrity and credibility is lost.
“Boxing”
An interesting example. A few years ago I asked a Judge I’ve known for decades about his decision regarding First and Second place at DCI Finals in Indianapolis. He talked me through the details and then said, “If you want to beat the World Champion, you have to do it decisively and leave no question about it.” On the surface that statement might appear to support the idea of reputation influencing a Judge but further discussion revealed that’s not what he was talking about. If you want to break through to the next level, kick down the door. Win decisively. Leave no doubt.
“And that’s irrefutable.”
Hardly, but you have made it clear you have no intention of being persuaded which is why I originally indicated I was done with this conversation. I chose to reengage because of the possibility that someone else will be open to the information and learn a new perspective. Thereby giving up on a tired fallacy, while gaining a better understanding of the adjudication process and more satisfying enjoyment of the contests they attend. It worked for me.
Yeah, I know. My wife always tells me, “Too many words.” 🙄

i'm catching up on area vids. great work, kiddos!
first of all, ummm, COPPELL! holy cow! huge, rich sounds. loving the super groovy recap of Beethoven at the end. so rhythmically challenging. guard is large and in charge. is that opening flute from Atonement? i heard Atonement mentioned + the typewriter sounds and got super excited. brilliant novel, brilliant film. music a little muddy after opener, but sooo cool.
still love FM's concept more than probably any other this year. super duper meta. super duper band. capes are tasteful and don't overwhelm the visual upstairs *cough*Broken Arrow*cough*. the skeleton of the design not my favorite from them, by that i mean just the pure drill and music, but it's still super impressive. some big big moments and big big sounds. some tuning issues here and there also, wondering how cold it was.
twhs i couldn't be more proud of. super improvement. i've been around a long time now and know that a lot of bands don't weather major staff changes very well. so thank u, new directors, for stepping into the pressure cooker and managing it well, and to the kids who stuck w/ the program and kept it going strong. i'm so happy for them. they could honestly get 14th place here and i'd be thrilled.
Vista Ridge. this show is such a fascination. i've professed my love for it a lot already. aggressive, intelligent, strange, always engaging. BLAZINGLY difficult, this is what u get when u don't water down a Vanderkolff drill program. performance nooot quite there imo, maybe in another week, and the guard is too small for the band, but it excites me so much i don't really care. honestly not the fairest comparison b/w vista's guard and vandy's dance team. like, honestly, i'm not going to tell as much upstairs if u lose your balance on a chaines turn, but i'm sure as f*** gonna notice if flags are going up and down at different times and rifles are dropped. waaay more exposed, waaay bigger risk.
a little surprised Vandy didn't come out on top at area. maybe only a little weaker than usual, usual being like top 3 SA. i will say this, the "experimental marching" was a liiittle oversold. hahaha. it's the same Vandy visual, but w/ glow sticks. hahaha. now the music is different. more contemporary. that change is good. is the grid some sort of Matrix thing?
what i love most about Cedar Ridge is i guess the clarity. i never don't know what they're going for. i really like the depth to the set, the shadowing. the character moments. the percussion. show makes perfect sense. pretty strong musically at area this past weekend. visual is simple and pretty clean. maybe i'm not connecting w/ it as much as the others bc it's a little too simple for my tastes. but they can surely execute.
will look for others later. great great job everyone. can't wait for those fancy schmancy ~*inDOoR~* performances.

Finals Results
Woodlands
College Park
Klein Oak 
Tomball Memorial
Oak Ridge
Klein Cain
North Shore
Klein Collins
Spring
 Grand Oaks
 

They were great! Flew in for my nephew's bar mitzvah and made sure to wake up at 6:30 so I could drive over to this contest and catch some bands. I am SO tired! 
I got a few videos. I might have to create a Google account later. 

I am still hanging around. No major changes - things are moving in a positive way generally (little ups and downs of course). I will never fully recover, but I can still have a good quality of life. But it is so hard to keep pushing! Such a mental and physical struggle pretty much every day.
Thank you for asking about me. Little things like this help keep me moving forward. It is greatly appreciated!
I hope you are doing well with your studies.

someone needs to post WM onto YT. sounds like this is gonna be a much spicier finals than the Carmel domination i was expecting.

Agree with your overall take. I personally like what Avon is doing more than what Carmel is doing (but Carmel is currently performing slightly better). I get just a whiff of Texas influence in Avon's music choices. I think Avon has a chance at GN to overtake Carmel in GE (and maybe performance), but it will really depend on the judging panel and what they are looking for in a show. A more current design, or a "classic" design?
I really did not like TWHS's show the first several times I saw it, but as it has cleaned up and fleshed out I have completely flipped my take. I think it will surprise at San Antonio (both BOA and UIL).

Short answer - no. The gap actually grows a bit due to MGE carrying more weight.
I recalculated the scores into 20/20/40/20 format that BOA uses (note only 1 MGE score which is doubled in the final calculation. I list it here twice to account for it.):
  MP VP MGE MGE VGE Total Vandegrift 18.42533 17.3 17.8 17.8 17.5  88.82533 Ronald Reagan 17.9 17.6 17.4 17.4 18 88.3 Vista Ridge 17.95 17.7 16.9 16.9 16.7 86.15 Cedar Park 18.3 17.2 17.3 17.3 16.5 86.6 Round Rock 17.3 17 16.5 16.5 17.1 84.4 Rouse 16.95 16.8 16.3 16.3 16.2 82.55 Hendrickson 16.1 15.8 15.6 15.6 14.9 78 Brandeis 15.6 15.65 15.5 15.5 15.5 77.75 Leander 16.5 15.3 15.4 15.4 14.6 77.2 Alexander 15.25 15.6 14.5 14.5 15.8 75.65 Dripping Springs 15.2 15.05 15.1 15.1 15.3 75.75 O'Connor 15.25 15.1 14.8 14.8 15.1 75.05  
Position changes would have been Cedar Park to 3rd and Dripping Springs to 10th.

Short answer - no. The gap actually grows a bit due to MGE carrying more weight.
I recalculated the scores into 20/20/40/20 format that BOA uses (note only 1 MGE score which is doubled in the final calculation. I list it here twice to account for it.):
  MP VP MGE MGE VGE Total Vandegrift 18.42533 17.3 17.8 17.8 17.5  88.82533 Ronald Reagan 17.9 17.6 17.4 17.4 18 88.3 Vista Ridge 17.95 17.7 16.9 16.9 16.7 86.15 Cedar Park 18.3 17.2 17.3 17.3 16.5 86.6 Round Rock 17.3 17 16.5 16.5 17.1 84.4 Rouse 16.95 16.8 16.3 16.3 16.2 82.55 Hendrickson 16.1 15.8 15.6 15.6 14.9 78 Brandeis 15.6 15.65 15.5 15.5 15.5 77.75 Leander 16.5 15.3 15.4 15.4 14.6 77.2 Alexander 15.25 15.6 14.5 14.5 15.8 75.65 Dripping Springs 15.2 15.05 15.1 15.1 15.3 75.75 O'Connor 15.25 15.1 14.8 14.8 15.1 75.05  
Position changes would have been Cedar Park to 3rd and Dripping Springs to 10th.

Short answer - no. The gap actually grows a bit due to MGE carrying more weight.
I recalculated the scores into 20/20/40/20 format that BOA uses (note only 1 MGE score which is doubled in the final calculation. I list it here twice to account for it.):
  MP VP MGE MGE VGE Total Vandegrift 18.42533 17.3 17.8 17.8 17.5  88.82533 Ronald Reagan 17.9 17.6 17.4 17.4 18 88.3 Vista Ridge 17.95 17.7 16.9 16.9 16.7 86.15 Cedar Park 18.3 17.2 17.3 17.3 16.5 86.6 Round Rock 17.3 17 16.5 16.5 17.1 84.4 Rouse 16.95 16.8 16.3 16.3 16.2 82.55 Hendrickson 16.1 15.8 15.6 15.6 14.9 78 Brandeis 15.6 15.65 15.5 15.5 15.5 77.75 Leander 16.5 15.3 15.4 15.4 14.6 77.2 Alexander 15.25 15.6 14.5 14.5 15.8 75.65 Dripping Springs 15.2 15.05 15.1 15.1 15.3 75.75 O'Connor 15.25 15.1 14.8 14.8 15.1 75.05  
Position changes would have been Cedar Park to 3rd and Dripping Springs to 10th.

the one i found yesterday was done by searching for Hebron band on YT and sorting for vids within the past week. it's from the Mesquite festival and don't think it had Hebron in the title. recognized the white unis in the thumbnail. no closer.
is Czapinski judging effect in finals? juuust curious.

Here ya go. It was more of a madhouse than normal. Gupton parking lot was full and I had to park in Vista Ridge student parking.  I almost missed Rouse.

Glenn This is a great show. They continue to improve.

Rouse
Vandegrift
 
Cedar Park
Leander
 
Vista Ridge
 

Could be. I pulled this straight from https://marching.musicforall.org/result/westhouston22/

This annual marching contest hosted by The Woodlands HS Band is in its 22nd year of existence and will be held on Saturday, October 8 at CISD’s Woodforest Bank Stadium.  Here is the prelims schedule:
10:00 AM    Klein Forest High School
10.15 AM    Splendora High School
10:30 AM    Lamar Consolidated High School
10.45 AM    Clear Springs High School
11:00 AM    Grand Oaks High School
11:15 AM    Porter High School
 Break
12:00 PM    Caney Creek High School
12:15 PM    Clear Falls High School
12:30 PM    College Park High School
12:45 PM    Klein Cain High School
  1:00 PM    Klein High School
  Break
  1:30 PM    Bridgeland High School
  1:45 PM    Tomball Memorial High School
  2:00 PM    Spring High School
  2:15 PM    Klein Collins High School
  2:30 PM    Clear Brook High School
  Break 
  3:00 PM    Willis High School
  3:15 PM    Oak Ridge High School
  3:30 PM    Clear Creek High School
  3:45 PM    Klein Oak High School
  4:00 PM    Pasadena Memorial High School
  4:15 PM    Cypress Woods High School

I enjoy reading and responding occasionally -- 15 years at CTJ and the one thing I have always believed is a good thing... "Love you or hate you, if they're talking about you... you're doing your job." It's nice to see the commentary and happy that folks are seeking out our videos! CTJ is my one and only ... and I don't take for granted how lucky we are as a community to get to be a part of something as special as what we have.
The show this year is an effort to get "back to basics" - there is drill (we move and play a lot) - there is a simple concept "out there," which references both "spaces," "from the outside looking in," planets, stars, ET, and of course how fortunate we are to be a part of such a wonderful world. I am not gaslighting - there's a lot wrong, but ... in a time where there is so much to be negative about, I try hard as a leader to keep our students and community focused on the positives in our world, and how they have an ability to be the change they wish so badly to see. We have never avoided doing difficult things ... so, the program is challenging, but... we have also tried to avoid "everything but the kitchen sink" - which we did very well with competitively, I might add 😇 And the show is in three movements plus a pre-show. It's a shorter show this year, and doesn't go down quite so many rabbit holes. This is a result of our own reflection ... but also things I have read on this forum, and feedback from adjudicators. We also like learning from those who are "state of the art" - Hebron, Vandy, Woodlands, Reagan, BA, Avon, Carmel, ETC - each bring something incredible to the table. And it helps shape our approach.
Our ballad is inspired by 2018 Bluesprings - one of my favorite ballads as an audience member - and I remember thinking all through that "videos don't do that ballad justice" ... and I don't think the videos do ours justice either. Love singing or hate it ... it's a personal taste. I am singer - I enjoy it, and our kids do a wonderful job with it.
I am always grateful each year to the bloggers and the audience members (who I also realize are some of our biggest competitors and not always happy to see us do well, but still stay positive or at least constructive) - that's a part of this game. I do always remind people that putting a show together and keeping a program like CTJ going over the long term is not easy to do (and we have now been around a LONG time, unless you're like RUBISCO ... you're a baby in my eyes)... Our team continues to entertain, push the envelope, and provide great experiences for our band members. We are inspired by the amazing programs in Texas, and continue to learn from them.
Someday, those of you who write on this forum, I hope you are as fortunate as I have been to teach and be a part of the design process for a program like CTJ. It is am amazing thing to be a part of. And - you won't fully understand every decision we make, nor agree with it. And that's cool. That's the best part about art - it's subjective. We do CTJ the way we love to do it - it is a joy to teach there every day. AND, as Rubisco so eloquently put it so many years ago, we will always "go our own way."
Have the best season, and look forward to sharing our show with you in KATY. 

lemme add one more thing about my alma mater before i disappear. now that i know a little more about the show, i'm really pretty excited for this, the music selections are A LOT of fun but also meaty. def in Wayne Downey's wheelhouse as an arranger. ballad has the potential to be another spectacular moment that gets me on my feet like it did at Houston last year. so i've got my fingers crossed that they're able to execute, execute, execute and project that energy and excitement. guard will be awesome again. Instagram vids show that. large and in charge! or lorge and in chorge, as i say.

General for prelims. Finals is general seating in the lower deck and reserved seating in the upper deck.

I have been wanting to ask about your condition for a while, I just felt like it wasn't my place, so of course I would love to learn about it. Chess is fun, and though I am also not very good at it, I have definitely found myself watching chess matches a few times when going down rabbit holes on YT. When I had my medical scare last month (still working through it) and didn't leave my bed for two weeks I found myself binge watching lawn care videos to fill my time. 

I am sorry about the lawyer thing by the way, I hope that issue is or can get resolved swiftly. You already have too much on your plate to deal with as it stands. I bet your wife is a champ, you certainly found the right person to be your wife it seems! Arizona is a beautiful state. Much better in the late fall/winter. The heat must be tough on you though texas isn't faring much better right now as it is. 

For entertainment, I started following a few chess youtubers. Odd choice as I'm not a particularly good chess player, but I have found it interesting. I followed the recent candidates tournament pretty closely. Other things included reading and playing some slower paced games on my computer. I've also spent a great deal of time learning as much as I can about my condition since it is not well known and relatively little is out there. Had to do some digging...
There are other things going on that take my time and attention, some of which are not good (lets just say that I had to hire a lawyer). I've also had a couple short trips around Arizona, one to the Grand Canyon via the Grand Canyon Railroad, and the other was several days in the Sedona area. Sanity has varied depending upon the day, but I and my family are still holding it together. This has been extremely challenging for my wife, and I want to be sure to sing her praises - she is awesome!
I thank you for your kind words. I enjoy engaging on this site and hope to continue to do so. If you ever get bored and want to learn about a condition that happens at a rate 1/100th of heart attacks (so 100 heart attacks for each 1 of these) and kills at around a 60-80% rate let me know. Academically I find it very fascinating to learn as biology was my weakest science area (physical science for me!).

For entertainment, I started following a few chess youtubers. Odd choice as I'm not a particularly good chess player, but I have found it interesting. I followed the recent candidates tournament pretty closely. Other things included reading and playing some slower paced games on my computer. I've also spent a great deal of time learning as much as I can about my condition since it is not well known and relatively little is out there. Had to do some digging...
There are other things going on that take my time and attention, some of which are not good (lets just say that I had to hire a lawyer). I've also had a couple short trips around Arizona, one to the Grand Canyon via the Grand Canyon Railroad, and the other was several days in the Sedona area. Sanity has varied depending upon the day, but I and my family are still holding it together. This has been extremely challenging for my wife, and I want to be sure to sing her praises - she is awesome!
I thank you for your kind words. I enjoy engaging on this site and hope to continue to do so. If you ever get bored and want to learn about a condition that happens at a rate 1/100th of heart attacks (so 100 heart attacks for each 1 of these) and kills at around a 60-80% rate let me know. Academically I find it very fascinating to learn as biology was my weakest science area (physical science for me!).

For entertainment, I started following a few chess youtubers. Odd choice as I'm not a particularly good chess player, but I have found it interesting. I followed the recent candidates tournament pretty closely. Other things included reading and playing some slower paced games on my computer. I've also spent a great deal of time learning as much as I can about my condition since it is not well known and relatively little is out there. Had to do some digging...
There are other things going on that take my time and attention, some of which are not good (lets just say that I had to hire a lawyer). I've also had a couple short trips around Arizona, one to the Grand Canyon via the Grand Canyon Railroad, and the other was several days in the Sedona area. Sanity has varied depending upon the day, but I and my family are still holding it together. This has been extremely challenging for my wife, and I want to be sure to sing her praises - she is awesome!
I thank you for your kind words. I enjoy engaging on this site and hope to continue to do so. If you ever get bored and want to learn about a condition that happens at a rate 1/100th of heart attacks (so 100 heart attacks for each 1 of these) and kills at around a 60-80% rate let me know. Academically I find it very fascinating to learn as biology was my weakest science area (physical science for me!).

I am super glad that you are still making progress in your recovery, even if slowly. Hope that you soon get to come to a show again. I know that would probably do wonders to your morale. In the meantime as you recover what do you do to keep yourself entertained/sane?

You are a treasure of this site. I think about you a lot. Definitely going to keep checking up on you.  

Right now it is all the medical appointments, surgeries, and of course bills that are more of an impediment. Health wise I can and have traveled back to Houston a couple times to meet with experts on my condition. My energy level is still much lower than it was, so I have to be careful so I don't get exhausted, but it is slowly coming back from my cardio workouts. I am still improving, and I hope to be able to attend in person in the future, just don't know when yet.

Right now it is all the medical appointments, surgeries, and of course bills that are more of an impediment. Health wise I can and have traveled back to Houston a couple times to meet with experts on my condition. My energy level is still much lower than it was, so I have to be careful so I don't get exhausted, but it is slowly coming back from my cardio workouts. I am still improving, and I hope to be able to attend in person in the future, just don't know when yet.