2023 BOA Grand National Championships (Nov. 9-11)

[Vidal28]

44 minutes ago, JazzRun said:

I agree, and appreciate your explanation of this. I saw that the UIL approved an increase in visual fundamental time from 10 to 15 hours for 2024. This still seems so restrictive!

If they did, that’s pretty cool, a 50% increase is definitely better than nothing.

[stix]

34 minutes ago, stix said:

I was not aware of the 10 hour visual rule. Is there a link to the explanation or would you be open to explaining a bit more on the detail of the rule. 

I found the link with all these rules explained. 
https://www.uiltexas.org/files/music/Summer_Marching_Band_Rules_and_Interpretations.pdf

[tubapop]

Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I would pull my kid from band if the hourly restrictions were loosened any more than they presently are (and I know many other parents would, too). My primary aim in sending my kid to school is to get an education in math, science, language, etc. - not to win band competitions. Band contests are a heck of a lot more fun in the moment, but they're not the priority. My kids struggle enough with challenging course loads and demanding practice schedules - I can't imagine putting more practice hours in than they already do. And I say all this as a former band student who, like my child, also competed at the highest levels in the state and nationally.

Knowing many parents feel this way, band enrollment at our school was undoubtedly decrease, and I imagine the same would occur across the state, at least in schools with like minded parents. My point is there can be unintended and far reaching consequences to changing the hourly limits so we should be careful what we wish for.

[utee94]

20 minutes ago, tubapop said:

Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I would pull my kid from band if the hourly restrictions were loosened any more than they presently are (and I know many other parents would, too). My primary aim in sending my kid to school is to get an education in math, science, language, etc. - not to win band competitions. Band contests are a heck of a lot more fun in the moment, but they're not the priority. My kids struggle enough with challenging course loads and demanding practice schedules - I can't imagine putting more practice hours in than they already do. And I say all this as a former band student who, like my child, also competed at the highest levels in the state and nationally.

Knowing many parents feel this way, band enrollment at our school was undoubtedly decrease, and I imagine the same would occur across the state, at least in schools with like minded parents. My point is there can be unintended and far reaching consequences to changing the hourly limits so we should be careful what we wish for.

I have to agree so I guess I have an unpopular opinion as well.

I'm okay with changing the 10-hour rule to 15-hour rule, because it sounds like that really only affects the dynamics of rehearsal during Summer Band.   But I'd be absolutely opposed to allowing any more practice time during the schoolyear.  I am delighted that my children enjoy band so much, and I'm also delighted that they are fortunate enough to be attending a school with a marching band that performs, and achieves, at the highest level of State competition.

But the primary purpose of school, is school.  Not marching band. And band in Texas even in its current form, is nearly all-consuming.  When I was in high school I was in band, drama, and choir.  I had time for all of that, because no one extracurricular was allowed to dominate.

Things are different now.  It sounds like in other states, the bands are allowed to rehearse even longer hours during the schoolyear? That's absolutely crazy to me and if Texas ever made a move in that direction, I'd be similarly forced to pull my kids from band so they could focus on the true purpose of school.

 

[natertater21000]

13 minutes ago, utee94 said:

I have to agree so I guess I have an unpopular opinion as well.

I'm okay with changing the 10-hour rule to 15-hour rule, because it sounds like that really only affects the dynamics of rehearsal during Summer Band.   But I'd be absolutely opposed to allowing any more practice time during the schoolyear.  I am delighted that my children enjoy band so much, and I'm also delighted that they are fortunate enough to be attending a school with a marching band that performs, and achieves, at the highest level of State competition.

But the primary purpose of school, is school.  Not marching band. And band in Texas even in its current form, is nearly all-consuming.  When I was in high school I was in band, drama, and choir.  I had time for all of that, because no one extracurricular was allowed to dominate.

Things are different now.  It sounds like in other states, the bands are allowed to rehearse even longer hours during the schoolyear? That's absolutely crazy to me and if Texas ever made a move in that direction, I'd be similarly forced to pull my kids from band so they could focus on the true purpose of school.

 

The biggest difference in rehearsal time comes from some out of state bands using off Saturdays as essentially extra summer band days. With an 8-noon and a 1-5 rehearsal block. 
 

There are other differences that don’t involve rehearsal time as well. Carmel’s marching band for example is entirely voluntary. It isn’t like Texas where if you’re in band you do marching in the fall and concert in the spring. If you just want to do concert and pass on the marching you can. This means that every single student on the field for Carmel specifically chose to be in the marching band. That’s not always the case in Texas even within the top programs. 

[utee94]

15 minutes ago, natertater21000 said:

The biggest difference in rehearsal time comes from some out of state bands using off Saturdays as essentially extra summer band days. With an 8-noon and a 1-5 rehearsal block. 

Yeah if my kids' band tried to do that, I'd nip it in the bud, or pull them out.  That's ridiculous.  Those Saturdays are about the only time my kids have, to catch up on schoolwork or even, heaven forbid, sleep.

17 minutes ago, natertater21000 said:

There are other differences that don’t involve rehearsal time as well. Carmel’s marching band for example is entirely voluntary. It isn’t like Texas where if you’re in band you do marching in the fall and concert in the spring. If you just want to do concert and pass on the marching you can. This means that every single student on the field for Carmel specifically chose to be in the marching band. That’s not always the case in Texas even within the top programs. 

I don't have a strong opinion on this.  Good for them, I guess?  I can't speak for my own kids' marching band, but when I was a high school student, I didn't know anyone in my high school band, that preferred concert season over marching season.  Most of us viewed concert season as "the time to focus on other stuff."

 

[crunchycookie3]

Eight-hour rule this, eight-hour rule that.... ultimately, TX groups have won in Indy several times despite the eight-hour rule. I really do not think it is that big of a hinderance to the success of TX programs. In complete honesty, the history of band in Texas seems to care more about the music. It is so true that an Indiana band never sounds like a Texas band, but Texas bands don't march or experiment visually nearly as much as Indiana bands. Visually, I think the Houston area is really starting to (finally) push the state forward. Take a look at TWHS creativity in visual and Bridgeland and Cy-Fair's achievement in the caption. Within the next couple of years, I'm thinking we'll see the strength of vis increase in Texas drastically.

[utee94]

2 hours ago, crunchycookie3 said:

Eight-hour rule this, eight-hour rule that.... ultimately, TX groups have won in Indy several times despite the eight-hour rule. I really do not think it is that big of a hinderance to the success of TX programs. In complete honesty, the history of band in Texas seems to care more about the music. It is so true that an Indiana band never sounds like a Texas band, but Texas bands don't march or experiment visually nearly as much as Indiana bands. Visually, I think the Houston area is really starting to (finally) push the state forward. Take a look at TWHS creativity in visual and Bridgeland and Cy-Fair's achievement in the caption. Within the next couple of years, I'm thinking we'll see the strength of vis increase in Texas drastically.

You seem to be taking this discussion as some kind of attack.  Why?

 

[natertater21000]

3 hours ago, utee94 said:

I don't have a strong opinion on this.  Good for them, I guess?  I can't speak for my own kids' marching band, but when I was a high school student, I didn't know anyone in my high school band, that preferred concert season over marching season.  Most of us viewed concert season as "the time to focus on other stuff."

 

It’s not a rampant problem by any means but you’d be surprised. 

[utee94]

2 minutes ago, natertater21000 said:

It’s not a rampant problem by any means but you’d be surprised. 

Fair enough.  It's an interesting topic, I think I'll ask my kids about it this weekend and see what the sentiment is around their friend groups in band.

[crunchycookie3]

36 minutes ago, utee94 said:

You seem to be taking this discussion as some kind of attack.  Why?

 

Definitely not! I just think that TX band fans seem to use the eight-hour rule to point to as why they’re not as successful at Indy when-to me-it comes down to them placing more emphasis on music than the visual caption. Just giving my two-cents!

[Vidal28]

25 minutes ago, crunchycookie3 said:

Definitely not! I just think that TX band fans seem to use the eight-hour rule to point to as why they’re not as successful at Indy when-to me-it comes down to them placing more emphasis on music than the visual caption. Just giving my two-cents!

I definitely think the topic of conversation has changed to more than just solely “8-hour rule bad”.

  As for parents that may be concerned about there being even more time that they think is wise, I would imagine quite a few bands don’t do the 8 hour maximum of rehearsals every week. Increasing the maximum wouldn’t mean everyone would do more automatically, each program and staff would communicate with involved parents, boosters, etc. about a potential new change and a discussion would be had about what they want to do for the program, as is the case already now. The maximum isn’t a mandate other than, “you better NOT go above this amount!!”

[11BandMan11]

On 11/17/2023 at 2:45 PM, Vidal28 said:

I definitely think the topic of conversation has changed to more than just solely “8-hour rule bad”.

  As for parents that may be concerned about there being even more time that they think is wise, I would imagine quite a few bands don’t do the 8 hour maximum of rehearsals every week. Increasing the maximum wouldn’t mean everyone would do more automatically, each program and staff would communicate with involved parents, boosters, etc. about a potential new change and a discussion would be had about what they want to do for the program, as is the case already now. The maximum isn’t a mandate other than, “you better NOT go above this amount!!”

I genuinely don't know how any Band Directors and staff members would be able to survive if the hours were increased, even marginally. Back when I was a student for our end of the year banquet I added up the number of hours our Directors worked to tell everyone how dedicated and amazing our staff was blah blah blah, and now looking back on it, its CRAZY how much Band Directors work for how little they are paid.

I don't have the speech file anymore still but if I recall correctly, from Band Camp through our football season ending, end of last week of July which went into August and our football team was a one and done in the playoffs that year, it was OVER 1,000 HOURS CUMULATIVE THROUGH TO THE START OF NOVEMBER! Just over 3 months, and over 1,000 hours of school days, rehearsals, contests, etc.

[FEDude]

I loved concert season! For anyone planning on doing anything music related in college, concert season is kinda when you build your resume. I had several friends that went to or at least auditioned for UNT (my first dream school when I wanted to become a band director). It seems like no university (or drum corp for that matter) cares how successful your school's marching program is. It seemed like making región band, getting a 1 at state solo and ensemble, and their actual audition pieces was a much bigger deal.

I didn't do music after high school. But if I were a high band director, I'd probably still stick to the 8hr rule even if it got repealed. I don't believe they're being paid anything extra for their work (maybe techs are), and I like my family enough to want to see them more than a couple hours a week.

NISD paid teachers 50K starting when I was a student. That is definitely not enough for 12 hour work days.

[jmartin1056]

On 11/13/2023 at 6:23 PM, pancake said:

does anyone have any recipes of high cams from finals

I would appreciate that recipe too if anyone is sharing 👀

[lost]

On 11/17/2023 at 9:48 AM, utee94 said:

I have to agree so I guess I have an unpopular opinion as well.

I'm okay with changing the 10-hour rule to 15-hour rule, because it sounds like that really only affects the dynamics of rehearsal during Summer Band.   But I'd be absolutely opposed to allowing any more practice time during the schoolyear.  I am delighted that my children enjoy band so much, and I'm also delighted that they are fortunate enough to be attending a school with a marching band that performs, and achieves, at the highest level of State competition.

But the primary purpose of school, is school.  Not marching band. And band in Texas even in its current form, is nearly all-consuming.  When I was in high school I was in band, drama, and choir.  I had time for all of that, because no one extracurricular was allowed to dominate.

Things are different now.  It sounds like in other states, the bands are allowed to rehearse even longer hours during the schoolyear? That's absolutely crazy to me and if Texas ever made a move in that direction, I'd be similarly forced to pull my kids from band so they could focus on the true purpose of school.

 

I think these takes are fundamentally dangerous for students, but I digress. 

[utee94]

4 hours ago, lost said:

I think these takes are fundamentally dangerous for students, but I digress. 

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying, so feel free to elaborate.

If you are suggesting that I would ever do anything at all that is fundamentally dangerous for my own children, that is simultaneously ignorant and incredibly insulting, so I certainly hope that's not the line you're taking. 

 

[lost]

On 11/19/2023 at 10:29 PM, utee94 said:

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying, so feel free to elaborate.

If you are suggesting that I would ever do anything at all that is fundamentally dangerous for my own children, that is simultaneously ignorant and incredibly insulting, so I certainly hope that's not the line you're taking. 

 

Other states have been doing this for years, to take away the educational experience of an increase in having to be taught to manage responsibilities it is puzzling to advocate for that.

[Hard Core Band Fan]

36 minutes ago, lost said:

Other states have been doing this for years, to take away the educational experience of an increase in having to be taught to manage responsibilities it is puzzling to advocate for that.

I think this person just has to win the argument. Let them win and maybe they'll move on and we can get back to something more productive. 

[utee94]

34 minutes ago, lost said:

Other states have been doing this for years, to take away the educational experience of an increase in having to be taught to manage responsibilities it is puzzling to advocate for that.

I still have no idea what you're talking about, nor how it relates to my position on UIL/Texas already allowing enough time for band, and not wanting to allow any more.  I am advocating maintaining the potential for a well-rounded student with enough time for extracurricular activities as well as rigorous academic pursuits. 

And honestly we don't even have THAT, here in Texas.  Marching band takes up the entirety of my kids' time that can be devoted to extracurricular activities.  When I was a high school student in Texas, I was in band, drama, and choir.  But now, with the way both the co-curricular classroom time is allotted, and with the amount of extracurricular time marching band commands, my children have been forced to decide between band and pretty much any other extracurricular activity.

They love band, and I love that they love it and happily encourage them to work at it as hard as they can.  I participate in the parent-pit-crew for my kids' band, and to date since August I've spent around 100 volunteer hours doing so.  I was in band, and I believe in band.  But I'd certainly be opposed to marching band taking up any MORE time, than it currently does.

 

1 minute ago, Hard Core Band Fan said:

I think this person just has to win the argument. Let them win and maybe they'll move on and we can get back to something more productive. 

What on Earth are you talking about? 

[Hard Core Band Fan]

4 minutes ago, utee94 said:

I still have no idea what you're talking about, nor how it relates to my position on UIL/Texas already allowing enough time for band, and not wanting to allow any more.  I am advocating maintaining the potential for a well-rounded student with enough time for extracurricular activities as well as rigorous academic pursuits. 

And honestly we don't even have THAT, here in Texas.  Marching band takes up the entirety of my kids' time that can be devoted to extracurricular activities.  When I was a high school student in Texas, I was in band, drama, and choir.  But now, with the way both the co-curricular classroom time is allotted, and with the amount of extracurricular time marching band commands, my children have been forced to decide between band and pretty much any other extracurricular activity.

They love band, and I love that they love it and happily encourage them to work at it as hard as they can.  I participate in the parent-pit-crew for my kids' band, and to date since August I've spent around 100 volunteer hours doing so.  I was in band, and I believe in band.  But I'd certainly be opposed to marching band taking up any MORE time, than it currently does.

 

What on Earth are you talking about? 

I know you have no Idea. Wasn't speaking to you. Go ahead and continue your rants. Get it out of your system. Your opinions are only valuable to you. You might spend a moment or two to reflect on that. I'm sure you will not.

[utee94]

5 minutes ago, Hard Core Band Fan said:

I know you have no Idea. Wasn't speaking to you. Go ahead and continue your rants. Get it out of your system. Your opinions are only valuable to you. You might spend a moment or two to reflect on that. I'm sure you will not.

Is this message board for insults rather than discussion?  Most message forums I've encountered, encourage discussion, rather than trying to shut it down with arrogance and insults. 

I've stated my opinion, you can certainly state yours. That's how discussion works.  You might spend a moment or two to reflect on that.  I'm sure you will not.

[Hard Core Band Fan]

7 minutes ago, utee94 said:

Is this message board for insults rather than discussion?  Most message forums I've encountered, encourage discussion, rather than trying to shut it down with arrogance and insults. 

I've stated my opinion, you can certainly state yours. That's how discussion works.  You might spend a moment or two to reflect on that.  I'm sure you will not.

Hilarious response, just as expected. 

[utee94]

2 minutes ago, Hard Core Band Fan said:

Hilarious response, just as expected. 

Further insults, zero discussion, just as expected.

[WoodlandsMom4ever]

2 hours ago, lost said:

Other states have been doing this for years, to take away the educational experience of an increase in having to be taught to manage responsibilities it is puzzling to advocate for that.

common English translation?  
 

I have similar thoughts to what has been stated.  I wouldn’t want the 8 hour rule to go away.   I don’t have to worry about it anymore- but I do think it’s important for kids to have time to be well rounded with multiple things they do and are interested in- and school is just one of those things.  The pressure academically is so much when you have large schools.  You can be smart- incredibly smart and taking advanced classes and getting a’s… and still not be in the top 30% of your class.  
 

8 hours of practice does not mean just 8 hours of band per week.  It’s 8 hours of after school practice- 5 days with about an hour of in class fundamentals (music or skills- no drill because their marching pad is covered in students cars). A football game that takes the entire day after school till almost midnight  by the time they head home- sometimes on a Thursday with school the next day (sure 1 hour afterschool they are “off” but they are all at school- there’s no going home and coming back those days). Then the competition weekends thankfully are limited- because that’s the entire Saturday.  
 

The 8 hour rule is for all sports and extracurriculars in Texas.  Because Texas is competitive like no other place I’ve lived. (And I’ve lived in east/south/west states- 9 total) if it were to be taken away it would only make students lives harder and harder to balance.