Duncanville Marching Invitational 2019

[DeepEllum]

I think what they’re trying to say is that since this is a season that is 2 weeks longer, they are going to approach it differently than they would if their last competition was next weekend, meaning they will be attacking things from a slower growth rate with more intricate difficulties in hopes that it can peak at the right time. The runs themselves differing between prelims and finals has nothing to do with pacing, nor does the success of Marcus over Hebron in this competition, but the overall cleanliness (and the fact that Marcus’s show has been finished for a few weeks and, from the looks of it, Hebron’s still isn’t) between Marcus and Hebron, two difficult shows for two different reasons, can be attributed to a differing in season lengths as one of the variables.

[whitewing09]

Pace, or pacing, is still the wrong word (and concept) for what you are describing. Just because it is a common misuse (or misunderstanding) in the marching community does not make it any less wrong.

 

It's like the word curvilinear. Technically, it's wrong, but its usage is common enough that it is still a generally accepted word. That's how language works. 

 

I think what they’re trying to say is that since this is a season that is 2 weeks longer, they are going to approach it differently than they would if their last competition was next weekend, meaning they will be attacking things from a slower growth rate with more intricate difficulties in hopes that it can peak at the right time. The runs themselves differing between prelims and finals has nothing to do with pacing, nor does the success of Marcus over Hebron in this competition, but the overall cleanliness (and the fact that Marcus’s show has been finished for a few weeks and, from the looks of it, Hebron’s still isn’t) between Marcus and Hebron, two difficult shows for two different reasons, can be attributed to a differing in season lengths as one of the variables.

 

I agree with you on the last bit 100%. I think their show is written in anticipation of having two extra weeks. TBH, I thought that they have been preparing for this for the past two years. In 2017, I thought that they stepped up their visual while keeping their music demand very high. Last year, I thought that Hebron could have used an extra week of clean because of their insane demand. This year, they seem to have upped the demand on both sides again. 

[1998-2018]

I think what they’re trying to say is that since this is a season that is 2 weeks longer, they are going to approach it differently than they would if their last competition was next weekend, meaning they will be attacking things from a slower growth rate with more intricate difficulties in hopes that it can peak at the right time.

I understand this is likely the intended meaning. It's also exactly what I objected too. In my experience, this is not how elite programs of any kind, marching or otherwise, think or operate.

 

What has been implied by extension is that Marcus doesn't really care that their show was virtually flawlessly clean yesterday because their season doesn't end until San Antonio.

 

Restated in those terms, I would think the inherent flaw in logic would be easy to identify.

 

The Marcus show is clean at this point because it is more within, for lack of a better term, the comfort zone of their ability. And they want it that way because they feel it gives them the best chance for success. (Please don't go running for the pitchforks and torches. The Marcus show has a very high degree of difficulty.)

 

What I'm saying is that it is erroneous to think that Hebron is actively managing a "slower growth rate" or "timing their peak" for a few weeks from now. Edit: By holding back now, i.e., pacing.

 

If the show could be perfect now, it would. Timing and pacing be damned. They would them work on maintaining that level of focus and performance for the next few weeks. Like Marcus being Marcus. Relentlessly.

 

I'm sure Hebron's, and Keller's, leadership is not concerned about yesterday. They are knowingly pushing the limits of the program's comfort zone of ability, with more time available for the necessary work. But I maintain, they're not pacing themselves. Edit: Holding back to maintain a scheduled timeline.

[xxneontreesxx]

Wonderful. More sarcastic, passive aggression. Like there isn't already far too much of it on display in this community.

Since you seem to be missing my main point I will try to clarify. Please notice I selected a very specific line from your original comment and deleted/ignored the rest. It was intended to show my comment is focused on that one area of what you said. I did not voice objection to anything else in your comment. Why? Because most of what you said is relevant and reasonably accurate. But, in my view, blending the concept of pacing unnecessarily reduced the accuracy and convoluted what you said.

 

Pace is a word with multiple definitions and in this context your usage seems to imply that Hebron is somehow managing this season differently because it is two weeks longer. Like how an athlete uses a different strategy for expenditure of energy in 100, 200, and 400 meter races.

 

I simply disagree.

 

You did say they may have made more difficult design choices knowing they would have an additional two weeks to clean the show.

 

Perhaps. I clearly didn't choose to debate that point. I also don't think Hebron's design this year is uncharacteristically difficult for them. As I said previously, it's Hebron being Hebron. And at this level everyone's performance gets better with two more weeks of work, regardless of design difficulty. That had nothing to do with pacing. It's because of the work.

 

If, in the end, you think we are just debating semantics, I will stand by what I said while agreeing to disagree without further debate. If you think I have misunderstood your original comment and would like to restate/clarify it, I'd love to hear what you have to say.

 

Without the sarcasm.

Personally, having graduated from Hebron, I can tell you that you're wrong and you really don't know what you're talking about. It's getting annoying how much you try to one up others and keep yourself on your high horse. Hebron is pacing themselves and they have a plan that they follow to get the most out of the season. Stop acting like you're the authority on what's what because you really are making yourself look dumb, regardless of how many complex sentences or words you use.

[1998-2018]

Personally, having graduated from Hebron, I can tell you that you're wrong and you really don't know what you're talking about. It's getting annoying how much you try to one up others and keep yourself on your high horse. Hebron is pacing themselves and they have a plan that they follow to get the most out of the season. Stop acting like you're the authority on what's what because you really are making yourself look dumb, regardless of how many complex sentences or words you use.

And now we've seen the transition to overt aggression and insults. That clearly doesn't encourage civil conversation or productive debate of ideas.

[xxneontreesxx]

 

And now we've seen the transition to overt aggression and insults. That clearly doesn't encourage civil conversation or productive debate of ideas.

(Continues to grasp for the high ground)

[LKendrick]

I went down to DMI this year for the first time.  What a great contest logistically and competitively.  This is a lineup on par with most BOA regionals and other local competitions across the country and a world class judging panel.  Some exciting results that I mostly agreed with.  

 

Hebron, as previously said, is playing the long game for GN.  This show is definitely still building for three weeks from now, and it will not peak a moment sooner.  That’s probably the most technically difficult thing ever done by a H.S. on a football field, and they’re doing a lot of it on the move.  I bet this is like 2015 where they don’t explode until the last minute.  But when they do.....watch out. 

 

Marcus was phenomenal, definitely agree with their win here.  Just pristine all around.  So lush and gorgeous musically, and they do body stuff incredibly well.  The woodwinds in Ruslan and Ludmilla are my favorite thing in this show, just nuts.  Should do really well next week.  My favorite from them in awhile.  

 

Keller’s show is hard hard hard.   The closer is downright nuts.  One of many bands that had a way better finals run.  Their brassline is one of the better ones in the high school world, they are loud and can articulate like nobodies business, but can also play with a ton of shaping and control in their slower sections.  If they improve as much as they did from Waco to DMI they’re gonna have a great weekend in San Antonio.   

 

Waxahachie also had a way better finals run, and  by far the best one they've had all season.  I felt watching online and in prelims that the show was so so so close to clicking, but not quite.  It did in finals at DMI.  Those kids totally bought into the shows roles, especially the soloists.  Speaking of them, wow.  From the clarinet to the piano to the AMAZING soloist in the ballad, they are all top notch.  This was a very interesting direction for them to take, they usually remind me of a CP/Marcus type in their programming but this year took a total left turn into a more fun and light hearted approach, and I think it could fit them really well if they do it again going into 2020.

 

Prosper.  What a creepy as he.....ck show.  And I love that.  There was something so unsettling about the tone of the music and the visual construction, especially from the guard.  The costuming and characterization was great.  Loved the way Elsa's was woven throughout the show, especially the backfield ending with the guard gradually trickling down front for their final statement.  I think this is my favorite show from them design wise.  

 

Keller Central always does such unique shows, this year was no different.  I can't count how many different styles and varieties they played Heart and Soul, but that's hard to build a whole show around a single work like that and they did it well.  Loved the uniforms and overall aesthetic, their guard is really solid.  

 

Haltom in the morning definitely had a very shaky run from a timing standpoint.  Not sure I would have had them 10th in prelims, but they definitely had more in them.  And oh BOY.  The improvement from prelims to finals is by far the biggest difference I've ever seen from a band from prelims to finals ever.  They were a month of rehearsal time better in finals.  Everything lined up and was so so so crisp.  With a performance like that I can see how they did as well in STL as they did.  I had them moving up farther in finals, but performing from that first slot can make that hard.  But wow, that was so cool to see.  

 

Wylie was nice, they gave some music we hear a lot on the field some very interesting treatments, brass can play with a ton of power when they have their big moments.  Loved the guard costuming and color scheme, nice progression throughout the show.  

 

I have some personal/professional connections to Permian, so when they were announced as not only a finalist, but well in finals after prelims, I was very honestly freaking out.  When they played the first notes of Baba Yaga at the start of the show, it didn't sound remotely like the same band from BOA Midland.  They grew SO much musically in two weeks, and it paid off by making finals at one of the harder local competitions in Texas.  It's been so much fun seeing this group grow from 2014 to where they are now, and the results from this more UIL Area style contest going into 2020 bode so well for them.  This was a show about them to show the world who they are, and they did that ten fold.  So proud of them.  

 

Timber Creek performs musically and visually with so much confidence, they didn't skip a beat from that standpoint this year.  The body stuff is performed with a ton of confidence and they have a ton of presence in their full ensemble moments.  Loved the newsroom ballad.  Some nice additions since Midland in the preshow and the additional closer.  Looking forward to seeing this again in a week.  

 

Some great performances in prelims as well.  Got to see Allen for the first time which was an experience (they kept coming and coming and coming and coming and coming), loved Lake Ridge's musical program, Summit sounded incredible, loved McKinney Boyd's visual evolution throughout the show, etc.  No one was weak.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TrumpetDad]

I went down to DMI this year for the first time.  What a great contest logistically and competitively.  This is a lineup on par with most BOA regionals and other local competitions across the country and a world class judging panel.  Some exciting results that I mostly agreed with.  

 

Hebron, as previously said, is playing the long game for GN.  This show is definitely still building for three weeks from now, and it will not peak a moment sooner.  That’s probably the most technically difficult thing ever done by a H.S. on a football field, and they’re doing a lot of it on the move.  I bet this is like 2015 where they don’t explode until the last minute.  But when they do.....watch out. 

 

Marcus was phenomenal, definitely agree with their win here.  Just pristine all around.  So lush and gorgeous musically, and they do body stuff incredibly well.  The woodwinds in Ruslan and Ludmilla are my favorite thing in this show, just nuts.  Should do really well next week.  My favorite from them in awhile.  

 

Keller’s show is hard hard hard.   The closer is downright nuts.  One of many bands that had a way better finals run.  Their brassline is one of the better ones in the high school world, they are loud and can articulate like nobodies business, but can also play with a ton of shaping and control in their slower sections.  If they improve as much as they did from Waco to DMI they’re gonna have a great weekend in San Antonio.   

 

Waxahachie also had a way better finals run, and  by far the best one they've had all season.  I felt watching online and in prelims that the show was so so so close to clicking, but not quite.  It did in finals at DMI.  Those kids totally bought into the shows roles, especially the soloists.  Speaking of them, wow.  From the clarinet to the piano to the AMAZING soloist in the ballad, they are all top notch.  This was a very interesting direction for them to take, they usually remind me of a CP/Marcus type in their programming but this year took a total left turn into a more fun and light hearted approach, and I think it could fit them really well if they do it again going into 2020.

 

Prosper.  What a creepy as he.....ck show.  And I love that.  There was something so unsettling about the tone of the music and the visual construction, especially from the guard.  The costuming and characterization was great.  Loved the way Elsa's was woven throughout the show, especially the backfield ending with the guard gradually trickling down front for their final statement.  I think this is my favorite show from them design wise.  

 

Keller Central always does such unique shows, this year was no different.  I can't count how many different styles and varieties they played Heart and Soul, but that's hard to build a whole show around a single work like that and they did it well.  Loved the uniforms and overall aesthetic, their guard is really solid.  

 

Haltom in the morning definitely had a very shaky run from a timing standpoint.  Not sure I would have had them 10th in prelims, but they definitely had more in them.  And oh BOY.  The improvement from prelims to finals is by far the biggest difference I've ever seen from a band from prelims to finals ever.  They were a month of rehearsal time better in finals.  Everything lined up and was so so so crisp.  With a performance like that I can see how they did as well in STL as they did.  I had them moving up farther in finals, but performing from that first slot can make that hard.  But wow, that was so cool to see.  

 

Wylie was nice, they gave some music we hear a lot on the field some very interesting treatments, brass can play with a ton of power when they have their big moments.  Loved the guard costuming and color scheme, nice progression throughout the show.  

 

I have some personal/professional connections to Permian, so when they were announced as not only a finalist, but well in finals after prelims, I was very honestly freaking out.  When they played the first notes of Baba Yaga at the start of the show, it didn't sound remotely like the same band from BOA Midland.  They grew SO much musically in two weeks, and it paid off by making finals at one of the harder local competitions in Texas.  It's been so much fun seeing this group grow from 2014 to where they are now, and the results from this more UIL Area style contest going into 2020 bode so well for them.  This was a show about them to show the world who they are, and they did that ten fold.  So proud of them.  

 

Timber Creek performs musically and visually with so much confidence, they didn't skip a beat from that standpoint this year.  The body stuff is performed with a ton of confidence and they have a ton of presence in their full ensemble moments.  Loved the newsroom ballad.  Some nice additions since Midland in the preshow and the additional closer.  Looking forward to seeing this again in a week.  

 

Some great performances in prelims as well.  Got to see Allen for the first time which was an experience (they kept coming and coming and coming and coming and coming), loved Lake Ridge's musical program, Summit sounded incredible, loved McKinney Boyd's visual evolution throughout the show, etc.  No one was weak.  

.

 

Based on the observations above, what are everyone’s opinions on TC, Prosper, and KCs chances at finals in San Antonio?

[principalagent]

.

 

Based on the observations above, what are everyone’s opinions on TC, Prosper, and KCs chances at finals in San Antonio?

Unfortunately, I think they’ll all be looking in. The Austin area is snapping big time this year, and they’ll probably be the bubble bands that make it in. Wakeland and Coppell are the DFW bubble bands with the best chance to get in finals.

[abtwitch]

Now that I've had a day to take everything in, here are my thoughts as well:

 

Marcus's show is incredible. At first I was surprised during the announcement of placements with them topping Hebron, but looking back on it their championship was well-deserved. Everything they do is so in-sync and mesmerizing, almost like Mandarins this past summer when it comes to performance from person to person in choreography. Musically, it was very clean and I'd personally say they had the strongest woodwinds of the night.

 

Hebron was absolutely incredible, during the prelims run I was laughing or exclaiming in disbelief half the time at what those kids out there are attempting and executing darn well. Looked like their closer isn't quite finished as I'd find it hard to believe they are standing still the entire last minute+ of their show. The ballad when the mellophones pick up concert horns was glorious, don't think I've ever heard that many horns sound so unison. It also would be a sin not to mention the soprano sax soloist, beautiful control in the high range of the instrument. Their finals run wasn't as nearly crisp as prelims, but still a fantastic performance from them. 

 

Keller might just be my favorite show of the season. Their show design is always so them and this year is no exception. Despite being my first time ever hearing them in person, I immediately recognized the unique "Keller brass" sound and fell in love with the program even more. The closer was so electric and fun to watch, and the trombones projecting over the ensemble was just perfect considering I love a strong low brass section in impact moments. Lot's of great things coming from them and I have no doubt that they will make finals at San Antonio this weekend.

 

Waxahachie has a really fun show, the pianist is insanely talented and a great performer. The colors on the uniform make the band pop so much visually. My biggest complaint is that they didn't use the jazz trio outside of the preshow, I think bringing back the drumset and bass at least once in the latter parts of the show would have been really fun. Other than that nitpick, fantastic performance from Waxahachie.

 

Prosper had a very bread and butter marching band show with mostly traditional uniforms and no props, but it was very refreshing. The show designers took every advantage of these facts and gave us an easy to enjoy show that isn't ever fighting for your attention. Their musical performance of various classical selections with an ominous twist was very unsettling yet satisfying. The Elsa's Procession reprise at the end with the entire band marching backfield was such a neat effect.

 

Keller Central might just have been my favorite show of the bottom half. It was very fun masterfully designed, as LKendrick mentioned with the various uses of Heart & Soul staying fresh throughout all 8-10 minutes of the show's runtime. They definitely earned that guard placement and the entire show was just very visually pleasing. Also the bari sax soloist was one of my favorite moments of the entire night.

 

Haltom's show can be summed up in one word: FUN! The difference in level of performance from prelims to finals was astounding. Malagueña was very crisp and you can absolutely tell the kids are having a blast with it. If they were coming to the bloodbath that is already San Antonio, they would have a really good shot at finals and I personally had them over even Prosper in Waxahachie in my personal rankings.

 

Wylie's show reminded me of their 2017 show where they played classical music and threw in a modern recognizable tune for the ballad. I already knew I was gonna love the show when the announcer was naming the musical selections, but was blown away by their performance in both prelims and finals. I have a feeling they are gonna do fantastically at BOA this year, just like in 2017.

 

I was not able to attend BOA Midland this year because of my college commitments, but was very happy to see Permian return to finals ensuring that west Texas is still represented at that competition even if they were in 10th. Seeing them at Duncanville was incredible because they did not perform like a 10th place group, and the judges here seemed to agree. Their show was engaging and easy for me to get into and made me proud of being a music major from a west Texas school. Excited to see Permian grow even more than they already have in the coming years.

 

Timber Creek was in 10th at this competition and it is a testament to how dense the competition was here, even if you disagree with that placement. As a former journalism-major, I enjoyed this show and me and my friend had a good time reading the headlines on the props in the back. I thought they were incredible in prelims, especially for going on very first in those weather condition. They upped their game in finals like so many other groups.

 

For non-finalists, the biggest surprise for me was McKinney. The sound they produced was very loud considering how small of a band they were and their show was very accessible and lit up (haha) the stadium. I also really enjoyed Pearce's performance of Autumn Leaves and the entirety of Summit's show (I was shocked when they didn't make finals). Also getting to see Allen start with an already massive group in a circle only to double the size of their band about a minute into their show was one of my favorite moments in prelims. 

[1998-2018]

Scores have been posted on the Duncanville ISD website.

[BandDad4]

I'm not really seeing much movement from prelims into finals. Looks to me the judges minds were already set and finals just confirmed their thoughts.

[BandFriendzz]

I'm not really seeing much movement from prelims into finals. Looks to me the judges minds were already set and finals just confirmed their thoughts.

All I think this confirms to me is that Haltom and timber creek are definitely Boa Bands .

[LakeRidgeLOVR2000]

Kinda crazy how awfully judged this contest was. Gotta check some credentials after this one...

[BlueCircle]

 

Kinda crazy how awfully judged this contest was. Gotta check some credentials after this one...

This contest had many VERY respected judges and members of the marching community. Your comment is blatantly disrespectful.

[TX_Band]

Kinda crazy how awfully judged this contest was. Gotta check some credentials after this one...

 

I'd more look at the system used to judge the bands than the adjudicators. If they used a UIL sheet then content, variety and effectiveness don't matter, the only thing that matters is that it's clean.

[vbassoon]

.

 

Based on the observations above, what are everyone’s opinions on TC, Prosper, and KCs chances at finals in San Antonio?

High teens.

[principalagent]

I’m always so floored about how quickly people who don’t know the activity are so quick to criticize those who’ve been heavily involved for 20, 30, 40 years for making different, but legitimate takes.

[ja2austintx]

Is it ridiculous to think a band might intentionally take on a show with more difficulty than most years simply because they know they have a longer season in which to clean?  Why must this imply that they are avoiding getting as clean as possible as soon as possible?

 

This forum reminds me of some DCI forums, which is to say "pedantic".  It is impossible to craft a show such that it will peak exactly a day before nationals (or state or whatever).  What can be done is that staff can assess the band's expected talent ahead of time and try to develop a show that has just enough difficulty where it isn't "too clean too soon", but even that involves risk.  

[BandDad4]

Just because someone has been doing something for 20-40 years does not mean they are infallible. 

[GetStraightToIt]

Kinda crazy how awfully judged this contest was. Gotta check some credentials after this one...

You gonna substantiate that claim?

[meursault]

Just because someone has been doing something for 20-40 years does not mean they are infallible. 

But it does imply that they probably know a ~tad~ better than a few randos who likely don't have the education, experience, or decades of exposure to the activity that these judges do.

[Band_dad_of_2]

Yoinks.......yeah, might be time to wrap this one up.

[BandDad4]

But it does imply that they probably know a ~tad~ better than a few randos who likely don't have the education, experience, or decades of exposure to the activity that these judges do.

I might agree with that if it wasn't for the fact that the scores are all over the map. Taking Propser for example one judge gave them a 14th placement for marching and the other gave them 4th. These types of swings should not happen. 

[littlejaw]

You gonna substantiate that claim?

I would have nothing to substantiate that claim. But who puts Haltom 20th in Music at a contest with 22 bands. I get that Daniel Cook has really good credentials though.