Area B 2018

[Bandwoww]

That is crazy, but the raw totals don't mean as much as the spreads.

BOA uses raw totals and it generally works out for the better. I wish UIL would follow suit.

[LostChoirGuy]

Raw scores may be a nice change, but you can't really add them and compare them retrospectly because of the way the judges may keep spreads between bands on purpose to be able to fit other bands between them.

[Bandwoww]

Raw scores may be a nice change, but you can't really add them and compare them retrospectly because of the way the judges may keep spreads between bands on purpose to be able to fit other bands between them.

Yeah, didn’t think about that...the way BOA judges score is definitely different cause they aren’t micromanaging their tenths or necessarily looking at an order.

[Bandwoww]

 

Geez two judges had Keller in 1st in music and on had them in tenth. Good thing that judge didn’t get their way.

In the end they did get their way :/

[Nny14]

In the end they did get their way :/

Not really. "Their way" would have been Keller not advancing. Keller can do better at state.

[BandoFando]

This is true.

That’s impressive but kindof scary at the same time.

[Bandwoww]

I feel like this weekend was the perfect reason to change the rule to include area as well as state especially because it came up twice. Now I bet they can’t change rules in the middle of the season but I don’t see why it shouldn’t apply to area as well.

[Band_dad_of_2]

The "money" issue is interesting but to me, in UIL the biggest factor is talent pool. I would be curious to see how many kids are in the top programs...not in the band, the program. The smaller the program, the smaller the talent pool

 

It helps when you can have real, actual tryouts for your band. If you have 400 kids in the program, then you can take the 250 kids. The best players...the best marchers.

[littlejaw]

Anyone have the knowledge from the inside to know if J3 that gave Keller a 10 in music was the same J5 that gave them 11th in marching in prelims?

[bancl]

Anyone have the knowledge from the inside to know if J3 that gave Keller a 10 in music was the same J5 that gave them 11th in marching in prelims?

I can confirm that it was. 

[littlejaw]

I can confirm that it was.

Someone clearly doesn’t need to judge ever again. Whether they are holding a grudge or don’t know how to correctly evaluate a marching band.

 

Not saying he needed to give Keller first. But objectively Keller was at least top 4 worthy from every judge.

[uniformstylist]

money helps, but it’s not the deciding factor between a good and a bad program. The wealthiest area in Dallas is arguably Highland Park. NOT Lewisville. To imply that money is what separates great programs from good ones is absurd and damaging to the activity as a whole. I understand you and your children are upset, but come on. You’re really gonna come on this forum and say FloMo is only better because they have more money?

Money can be a deciding factor. The best bands are amazing because of the hard work and sacrifice the kids put in but the money put in fine arts at all levels in the school district is essential to a successful band program. UIL is great because it helps balance this out. I do not agree to the statement you're replying to but we also need to realize the harsh reality.

[TXWestside]

Someone clearly doesn’t need to judge ever again. Whether they are holding a grudge or don’t know how to correctly evaluate a marching band.

 

Not saying he needed to give Keller first. But objectively Keller was at least top 4 worthy from every judge.

I get that y’all love Keller or whatever and no doubt they are a spectacular program but I feel like a lot of you guys are maybe overreacting a bit.. That’s just how this activity is ladies and gents. Judges don’t always agree. Placements can and will be wild sometimes. Unfortunately we can’t know exactly what judges see/hear so we just have to trust the process. Am I upset that Timber lost a tie by one judges preference even though in my eyes they objectively had a much more difficult show and still performed at an entremely high level? Yes. And Duncanville is a great band so no shade to them but I understand that UIL is just a different beast. Y’all got second place... RELAX. You will have your shot at redemption soon enough and will undoubtedly kill it at state! I have nothing but respect for the Keller program and I know a lot of great people that went there but don’t get your pitchforks out for one measley music judge’s placement. For perspective just think about all the bands that couldn’t even perform in FINALS like Central or Richland who have been consistent contenders for years.

[BandoFando]

I get that y’all love Keller or whatever and no doubt they are a spectacular program but I feel like a lot of you guys are maybe overreacting a bit.. That’s just how this activity is ladies and gents. Judges don’t always agree. Placements can and will be wild sometimes. Unfortunately we can’t know exactly what judges see/hear so we just have to trust the process. Am I upset that Timber lost a tie by one judges preference even though in my eyes they objectively had a much more difficult show and still performed at an entremely high level? Yes. And Duncanville is a great band so no shade to them but I understand that UIL is just a different beast. Y’all got second place... RELAX. You will have your shot at redemption soon enough and will undoubtedly kill it at state! I have nothing but respect for the Keller program and I know a lot of great people that went there but don’t get your pitchforks out for one measley music judge’s placement. For perspective just think about all the bands that couldn’t even perform in FINALS like Central or Richland who have been consistent contenders for years.

It’s not really about Keller. It’s a culmination of all the times where UIL judging was doubted more than it needed to be. Things like this rarely happen in BOA. UIL is flawed. Things need to change.

[ymoath21]

Is anyone going to talk about summit? No one expected them to even make finals and they got 7th in prelims and 9th in finals. They’re also one of the smaller band and this just shows that passion is greater than size

[Guest]

 

Is anyone going to talk about summit? No one expected them to even make finals and they got 7th in prelims and 9th in finals. They’re also one of the smaller band and this just shows that passion is greater than size

I mean I havent seen them this year but saw them at BOA Southlake last year and was completely blown away (literally, as they were very loud). What blew me away more was the fact they placed 20th. Anyways, they are a great band with a bright future. Clean that visual and calm down the ensemble sound and they are champs.

[TXWestside]

It’s not really about Keller. It’s a culmination of all the times where UIL judging was doubted more than it needed to be. Things like this rarely happen in BOA. UIL is flawed. Things need to change.

Ok and that’s fair and I get that for you it might not just be about Keller. But I also only see people complaining about that specific judge so i’m only expressing my concerns over the m3 judge witch-hunt lol

[LostChoirGuy]

I think giving specific examples of wonky judging, such as the case with the one judge putting keller in last place, is the only way to really get the argument moving forward that UIL has its issues.

 

That being said, I like that BOA and UIL have such different judging criteria and I don't want that to change.  To me I see BOA as judging the overall artwork that is created on the field and its impact and UIL is judging the technical aspect of the activity (how good at marching and playing is this band?) and both have their place.  I just wish that maybe it would be a little bit more clear and that the judges themselves would be held to a bit sturdier guidelines for their scoring so that there aren't major issues.  It didn't cause Keller to miss out, but who knows what would have happened if there was a different judge there that perhaps gave different ordinals?  Would it have affected the 5th band to advance? 

[TXWestside]

Yeah I think having a UIL-like system is a great way to highlight bands that maybe prefer execution over “art”/impact but the consistency of it is just such a big issue. NO clue how they would fix it though

[1998-2018]

Well, private lessons are very expensive. They make a huge difference. Dance instructors, props, better quality instruments and nicer uniforms all are very expensive. GE can be influenced by money, less so in UIL. However, it is still up to the kids to practice, work hard and succeed. It’s a little of both. Can you name me a highly successful band program from a poor district. I’m not sure.

Duncanville has one of the most successful band programs in the history of Texas and I certainly wouldn't say that it is in a wealthy area.

For the record, Duncanville ISD is 76% "Economically Disadvantaged".

Actually it's extremely easy to make the case that their dominance has diminished as their economic situation has improved.

[takigan]

Well, private lessons are very expensive. They make a huge difference. Dance instructors, props, better quality instruments and nicer uniforms all are very expensive. GE can be influenced by money, less so in UIL. However, it is still up to the kids to practice, work hard and succeed. It’s a little of both. Can you name me a highly successful band program from a poor district. I’m not sure.

 

Lopez HS from Brownsville won 6A Honor Band the previous cycle.  Their marching record is less successful but they were at the State Marching Contest last year for 5A and in 2016 for 6A.

 

Brownsville is a border town and Lopez has a 100%+/- Hispanic population with 99% Economically Disadvantaged.

[BandoFando]

I think what makes the whole Area B situation so controversial and talked-about is the way UIL handled it and how unprofessional it was. First they announce Keller as the champion. And it’s not like they accidentally announced Keller as first. No, as far as I am aware, the people in charge were all aware that Keller was gonna win. They applied the rule putting Keller in first. It wasn’t some crazy mishap with announcements. Then to go and slyly change the results is kindof shady if they are the ones to mess up in the first place. Waxahachie doesn’t even get the true satisfaction of winning the Area B contest and it’s probably an awkward situation for Keller and I imagine there are some really heated parents that had no idea what actually happened. And then to learn that one judge had you in 10th which made it virtually impossible to win. Had they taken the time to get it right the first time no one would be as mad as they are. Yeah people would question the outlier but it wouldn’t be this whole mess.

[LostChoirGuy]

Honestly I feel bad for Waxahachie. It takes away from their awesome area victory. I really love the way they perform that show and hope they make state finals.

[1998-2018]

After looking at the results is was pretty clear that in prelims and finals *most* of the judges agreed on Keller and Waxahachie as the top 2. I think most judges though Coppell and Prosper would round out the top 4. It really was just that one judge that had a grudge against Keller. 5-10 is where it gets scary.

I'm not comfortable with the word grudge. I don't believe this was personal in that sense. While 5-10 may be scary, it's also revealing.

 

Someone clearly doesn’t need to judge ever again. Whether they are holding a grudge or don’t know how to correctly evaluate a marching band.

I don't believe this was about competence either. Think bigger picture.

 

Judges don’t always agree.

 

Placements can and will be wild sometimes. Unfortunately we can’t know exactly what judges see/hear so we just have to trust the process.

 

Am I upset that Timber lost a tie by one judges preference even though in my eyes they objectively had a much more difficult show and still performed at an entremely high level? Yes. And Duncanville is a great band so no shade to them but I understand that UIL is just a different beast.

 

Y’all got second place... RELAX. You will have your shot at redemption soon enough and will undoubtedly kill it at state! I have nothing but respect for the Keller program and I know a lot of great people that went there but don’t get your pitchforks out for one measley music judge’s placement. For perspective just think about all the bands that couldn’t even perform in FINALS like Central or Richland who have been consistent contenders for years.

In this case their was a remarkable amount of agreement, at least at the top. This is an issue here and now because everyone did see what the judges saw and to trust the system people must feel it is trustworthy. Reasonable doubt is being expressed. Even you are frustrated with the tie at 5th place.

 

I can assure you Keller is relaxed and focused on other priorities. This didn't affect them at all. They're still going to the Alamodome as planned and have a massive amount of work to do in the next few days due to all the earlier rain and missed practice time. That doesn't mean they are oblivious or unconcerned regarding the impact this had on other bands. They are very close with one of the bands most affected. There is plenty of time to address that privately through appropriate channels. Keller is not, and will not be driving this publicly. Their code of conduct leaves no doubt in that regard.

 

It’s not really about Keller. It’s a culmination of all the times where UIL judging was doubted more than it needed to be. Things like this rarely happen in BOA. UIL is flawed. Things need to change.

It's not even remotely about Keller specifically. In fact, it's not really about judging either. This is about values and direction for the future of Marching Arts in Texas. If the UIL is flawed at the moment it's only a symptom of the larger situation. Much like our Country, the UIL sits at a crossroad and is deeply divided internally. Sound familiar? Red versus Blue becomes UIL versus BOA, big versus small, rich versus struggling. Break it down however you like. The more extreme agendas get, the more likely they are driven by emotions. Facts often become irrelevant if they contradict the confirmation bias. Some basic research into publicly available information regarding the Area B competition and a bit of deductive reasoning will reveal a great deal. You don't need inside information. It appears an individual may have held a specific perspective and expressed it. Perhaps because they were so far outside their normal arena of competition, a set of values are perceived to be under attack or no longer competitive. Another Area had a similar outcome in Finals. I haven't researched that one yet but we regularly see comments on TxBands that voice these feelings. This voice was louder.

 

To restore trust we must restore unity of vision and purpose. Without consensus we will not have clarity or systematic integrity for our judges and our bands.

 

We need to change the conversation to heal the division.

[lurker]

 

Lopez HS from Brownsville won 6A Honor Band the previous cycle. Their marching record is less successful but they were at the State Marching Contest last year for 5A and in 2016 for 6A.

 

Brownsville is a border town and Lopez has a 100%+/- Hispanic population with 99% Economically Disadvantaged.

Easy to do when you have a band staff 3-4 times bigger than most 6a and free private lessons from that staff. As is the case with most of the valley bands.