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1998-2018

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  1. Like
    1998-2018 got a reaction from LeanderMomma in Duncanville Marching Invitational 2019   
    It's a unique and worthwhile experience and it's getting even better. This year I really noticed how they are changing their drill to capitalize on their size. The way they are moving blocks of the band has definitely changed and I'm glad to hear it's intentionally purposeful. At multiple points throughout the show I was thinking, "Hey, that's cool, when did they start doing that?"
     
    It won't happen overnight but when they get to the point where they add movement within those large blocks, like the Keller closer or what the Madison Scouts did this summer, we can all be very afraid. Awesome potential.
  2. Like
    1998-2018 got a reaction from AllenBandDad in Duncanville Marching Invitational 2019   
    It's a unique and worthwhile experience and it's getting even better. This year I really noticed how they are changing their drill to capitalize on their size. The way they are moving blocks of the band has definitely changed and I'm glad to hear it's intentionally purposeful. At multiple points throughout the show I was thinking, "Hey, that's cool, when did they start doing that?"
     
    It won't happen overnight but when they get to the point where they add movement within those large blocks, like the Keller closer or what the Madison Scouts did this summer, we can all be very afraid. Awesome potential.
  3. Like
    1998-2018 got a reaction from whitewing09 in 2019 BOA San Antonio   
    Hmmm, that seems perhaps a bit bold. It makes me wonder if you were at Waco or just looked at scores. (But if you have a question, by all means, ask it. That's why we're here. I'm just trying to understand context.
  4. Like
    1998-2018 got a reaction from KinDallas in 2019 BOA San Antonio   
    Wait...I didn't say that...
     
     
    Oh, yep...
     
    Ha! Been there...
     
    No!!! Not that! Try scrolling down to the bottom of the page and hit the "Full Version" button. Then rotate your phone to landscape, drag the display to a readable size when you comment, quote, or edit, and everything should look pretty much like it does on a PC or tablet.
  5. Like
    1998-2018 got a reaction from An Inspirational Pinecone in 2019 BOA San Antonio   
    Hmmm, that seems perhaps a bit bold. It makes me wonder if you were at Waco or just looked at scores. (But if you have a question, by all means, ask it. That's why we're here. I'm just trying to understand context.
  6. Like
    1998-2018 got a reaction from fjmmd65 in 2019 BOA San Antonio   
    Hmmm, that seems perhaps a bit bold. It makes me wonder if you were at Waco or just looked at scores. (But if you have a question, by all means, ask it. That's why we're here. I'm just trying to understand context.
  7. Like
    1998-2018 got a reaction from El Gato_01 in BOA Waco 2019   
    percussionmomma2022, I have a few questions to help clarify what you have said. I genuinely want to understand. I will also add some comments to try to ensure I was correctly understood. I would like to see others join the conversation too. What happened at Waco has been a common question.
     
    I absolutely agree.
     
    Change is incredibly hard and is the path that leads to growth and increased success.
     
    Are you saying I did this?
     
    Or did someone else?
     
    It would be wrong to do this publicly. In my view I specifically and intentionally avoided this. No single individual is called out by name or title.
     
    I do make reference to potential design issues. At the level of a high quality program like Hendrickson I would assume these decisions are made by an outside professional design team. Is that not the case?
     
    In your opinion, where does my comment fall? Constructive, hurtful, wrong, or some combination of the three?
     
    I think you overlooked a possibility. My intention was to be informative.
     
     
    I am keenly aware of this. That's why I strive to be respectfully informative. I've been involved with our band program for over twenty years. I also coached baseball at a high level for twenty years. In all that time I never met a successful kid who didn't want to hear the honest truth told in a respectful way, with no whitewash. Kids are dying for the truth so they understand what is happening. Parents too. I offered an educated opinion. I don't expect everyone to agree, but I think that's what makes this place helpful.
     
    Who said they are sub-par?
     
    I certainly didn't. My comments regarding their history clearly put them well within the top 1% of bands in the entire country. That's not sub-par.
     
     
     
    I didn't do this either.
     
    Are you referring to information that came out in another comment by someone else?
     
    What did you consider to be "private band family stuff?
     
    I'm looking forward to San Antonio too! I would encourage you and the kids to persevere, the journey is worth it.
  8. Like
    1998-2018 got a reaction from gregorydf01 in BOA Waco 2019   
    This is the kind of question that can get me in trouble but I'm willing to give it a try with a new sensitivity to the pain points. First let me say I think Hendrickson is a high quality program. The kids are talented and have been San Antonio Super Regional Finalist the last two years. If the kids have a role in this placement it is minor. They are not the issue and are not at fault. Clear? I'm just being careful after last season and don't want any misunderstanding.
     
    Addition disclosure for additional clarity:
    I first saw the show in the video from the Texas Music Classic and almost immediately thought it was headed for problems at BOA. By the end of the show I had mentality removed it from my list of potential San Antonio Finalist but decided to reserve final judgement until seeing it live at BOA Waco. That didn't help, instead it did more damage and I felt bad for the kids who have been put in this position. I definitely didn't have them in Finals at Waco.
     
    But 17th seems harsh.
     
    So the question is why?
     
    This sounds like a summary, not a direct quote from the judges comments. I'd bet it's an accidental mischaracterization of the judges comments, or at least their intended message.
     
     
    Wait, let's tap the brakes there. Hendrickson does tell us at the beginning of the show what they are trying to do. Their message is clear, so this is probably a big indication it's the judges intended message that has been misunderstood.
     
    Early in the 2015 season a Judge actually audibly yawned while telling Keller Central their show "just isn't working". They made significant changes and ended the season with a performance in Grand National Championships Semi-Finals.
     
    This kind of feedback from Judges may be more common in WGI competition. I was at an early season clinic where Judges directly asked a group right after their performance, "What is your show about?". Nobody in the Guard knew. The Judges told them, "We can't tell either and that's going to be a big problem if it doesn't change." The director explained the show concept to the girls but didn't make design/choreography changes and other Judges comments and scores continued to reflect the design problem.
     
    LeanderMomma, we both travel in the WGI world. Remember the CGT Dallas 2018 show "Dust and Ashes"? Early in the season a panel of judges told them they loved the show but couldn't tell what it was about? Something Russian...but they needed to know more for proper GE context and higher scores. So CGT added a hilarious, snarky pre-show that introduced the characters and the play the show was based on. The rest is unforgettable Finals history in Dayton.
     
    But Hendrickson already has a clear introduction so that shouldn't be the problem.
     
    It's been suggested that maybe the judges aren't familiar with the disco era, so let's examine what defined Studio 54?
     
    First was extremely limited access.
    The stories of the velvet rope are legendary. One night a newlywed couple showed up still in wedding dress and tuxedo. Just to see what would happen they were told at the rope the bride could come in but the groom couldn't. She reported had a great time inside while he waited outside furious with her and Security. No report on whether or not they are still married. Celebrities were regularly turned away. Ironically, CHIC's huge disco hit Le Freak was written by Niles Rodgers after members of the band were invited to Studio 54 and then denied access. "Freak out" was not the original lyric.
     
    Once inside the experience was defined by:
    Disco Music
    Disco Dancing
    Fashion
    Drugs
    Sex
    Absolute Decadence
     
    How many of these things also define the Hendrickson show?
     
    Extremely limited access? Not really, it's not demonstrated on the field in a memorable way that defines the show.
     
    Disco Music? Yes, the melodies are there but the relentlessly driving groove of a dance club is never the strength of any marching band. It's a problematic design choice.
     
    Disco Dancing? Not at a level that defines the show.
     
    Fashion? Sort of, but not really. The Guard fashion looks like 1967 to 1972. Studio 54 opened ten years later, in 1977, and fashion had changed considerably. It would probably be helpful if they looked less like flamboyant extras from The Mod Squad and more like the cast of Saturday Night Fever or even The Village People.
     
    Drugs? Definitely not.
     
    Sex? No, not even a little.
     
    Decadence? It's in the name of the show but that's as far as it goes and for a high school marching band, that is as it should be.
     
    As I'm writing this I realized this could be an awesome design concept for CGT. They could easily overcome many of the hurdles because of the different performance style expectations and environment. But that doesn't necessarily make it a good choice for Hendrickson.
     
    With all this in mind I don't think the Judges were saying they didn't understand the concept. It seems more likely they think the show didn't well represent the stated concept. Two very different things.
     
    And that's not on the kids.
     
    It's a tough question that needs to be answered. It's worth noting that most of the excitement surrounding Hendrickson came after TMC and that's not a BOA event. Hendrickson didn't make Finals at BOA Austin either though it could be argued that was a deeper field and they placed 12th, not 17th. No easy answers for either BOA or Hendrickson.
     
    A final thought. Proofreading through this I wonder if some may read it and think I'm on thin ice or wish this kind of analysis wasn't part of the forum. I am open to feedback. Please keep it polite and remember I have repeatedly excluded or defended the kids. Is what I have said any different than all the comments about how dirty the Keller closer was? Or is it just a more detailed analysis, similar to someone explaining what "dirty" means and where it happened in the sets?
     
    Everything you want is on the other side of fear. Be fearless.
     
     
     
    Edit: The Keller analysis was just any easy example of how not all productive feedback is positive. I have no problem with those comments. They are accurate, the closer is extremely dirty, especially by Keller standards. Don't expect it to stay that way.
  9. Like
    1998-2018 got a reaction from percussionmomma2022 in BOA Waco 2019   
    Thank you for responding, I'm relieved to here this. I guess the timing of your comment coming so quickly after mine had me unnecessarily concerned. Your clarification will likely provide helpful context for others reading the thread.
  10. Like
    1998-2018 reacted to TWHSParent in BOA Waco 2019   
    Personally I am all for deeper discussions about what might be at issue. There are reasons shows score the way they do, and trying to understand those reasons is perfectly fine. These types of comments are not attacks against programs or performers, but are thoughtful and sometimes insightful comments about results and where we think those results came from. While most of us don't have access to the judges comments (I'm sure some of us do, at least for some programs), we then have to use our own eyes and ears, and general knowledge of the activity to try to make sense of the results, What drives GE? That one is hard for people to define and understand. It is probably the most subjective of the captions.
     
    Another thing to understand about BOA, is that the scores are a general indication of mastery, on a scale of 1 to 5, with 5 being the best. Whenever you see a score of 18+ in a caption, that means the judge thought the program was at the highest level of achievement (aka "Box 5") in that caption, but perhaps others still did it better. Those are the general guidelines that the BOA judges have, which have been asked about on this site. Within those generalizations the judge will assign rankings and scores based upon their opinion of the show vs the other shows. So while the scores may not be directly comparable between contests, the general achievement level can be. So once programs start hitting 16+ in captions, they are putting on a pretty strong show. 18+ will be a strong end of season finalist contender, 19+ is a champion contender.
  11. Like
    1998-2018 got a reaction from A Testing Trumpet in BOA Waco 2019   
    This is the kind of question that can get me in trouble but I'm willing to give it a try with a new sensitivity to the pain points. First let me say I think Hendrickson is a high quality program. The kids are talented and have been San Antonio Super Regional Finalist the last two years. If the kids have a role in this placement it is minor. They are not the issue and are not at fault. Clear? I'm just being careful after last season and don't want any misunderstanding.
     
    Addition disclosure for additional clarity:
    I first saw the show in the video from the Texas Music Classic and almost immediately thought it was headed for problems at BOA. By the end of the show I had mentality removed it from my list of potential San Antonio Finalist but decided to reserve final judgement until seeing it live at BOA Waco. That didn't help, instead it did more damage and I felt bad for the kids who have been put in this position. I definitely didn't have them in Finals at Waco.
     
    But 17th seems harsh.
     
    So the question is why?
     
    This sounds like a summary, not a direct quote from the judges comments. I'd bet it's an accidental mischaracterization of the judges comments, or at least their intended message.
     
     
    Wait, let's tap the brakes there. Hendrickson does tell us at the beginning of the show what they are trying to do. Their message is clear, so this is probably a big indication it's the judges intended message that has been misunderstood.
     
    Early in the 2015 season a Judge actually audibly yawned while telling Keller Central their show "just isn't working". They made significant changes and ended the season with a performance in Grand National Championships Semi-Finals.
     
    This kind of feedback from Judges may be more common in WGI competition. I was at an early season clinic where Judges directly asked a group right after their performance, "What is your show about?". Nobody in the Guard knew. The Judges told them, "We can't tell either and that's going to be a big problem if it doesn't change." The director explained the show concept to the girls but didn't make design/choreography changes and other Judges comments and scores continued to reflect the design problem.
     
    LeanderMomma, we both travel in the WGI world. Remember the CGT Dallas 2018 show "Dust and Ashes"? Early in the season a panel of judges told them they loved the show but couldn't tell what it was about? Something Russian...but they needed to know more for proper GE context and higher scores. So CGT added a hilarious, snarky pre-show that introduced the characters and the play the show was based on. The rest is unforgettable Finals history in Dayton.
     
    But Hendrickson already has a clear introduction so that shouldn't be the problem.
     
    It's been suggested that maybe the judges aren't familiar with the disco era, so let's examine what defined Studio 54?
     
    First was extremely limited access.
    The stories of the velvet rope are legendary. One night a newlywed couple showed up still in wedding dress and tuxedo. Just to see what would happen they were told at the rope the bride could come in but the groom couldn't. She reported had a great time inside while he waited outside furious with her and Security. No report on whether or not they are still married. Celebrities were regularly turned away. Ironically, CHIC's huge disco hit Le Freak was written by Niles Rodgers after members of the band were invited to Studio 54 and then denied access. "Freak out" was not the original lyric.
     
    Once inside the experience was defined by:
    Disco Music
    Disco Dancing
    Fashion
    Drugs
    Sex
    Absolute Decadence
     
    How many of these things also define the Hendrickson show?
     
    Extremely limited access? Not really, it's not demonstrated on the field in a memorable way that defines the show.
     
    Disco Music? Yes, the melodies are there but the relentlessly driving groove of a dance club is never the strength of any marching band. It's a problematic design choice.
     
    Disco Dancing? Not at a level that defines the show.
     
    Fashion? Sort of, but not really. The Guard fashion looks like 1967 to 1972. Studio 54 opened ten years later, in 1977, and fashion had changed considerably. It would probably be helpful if they looked less like flamboyant extras from The Mod Squad and more like the cast of Saturday Night Fever or even The Village People.
     
    Drugs? Definitely not.
     
    Sex? No, not even a little.
     
    Decadence? It's in the name of the show but that's as far as it goes and for a high school marching band, that is as it should be.
     
    As I'm writing this I realized this could be an awesome design concept for CGT. They could easily overcome many of the hurdles because of the different performance style expectations and environment. But that doesn't necessarily make it a good choice for Hendrickson.
     
    With all this in mind I don't think the Judges were saying they didn't understand the concept. It seems more likely they think the show didn't well represent the stated concept. Two very different things.
     
    And that's not on the kids.
     
    It's a tough question that needs to be answered. It's worth noting that most of the excitement surrounding Hendrickson came after TMC and that's not a BOA event. Hendrickson didn't make Finals at BOA Austin either though it could be argued that was a deeper field and they placed 12th, not 17th. No easy answers for either BOA or Hendrickson.
     
    A final thought. Proofreading through this I wonder if some may read it and think I'm on thin ice or wish this kind of analysis wasn't part of the forum. I am open to feedback. Please keep it polite and remember I have repeatedly excluded or defended the kids. Is what I have said any different than all the comments about how dirty the Keller closer was? Or is it just a more detailed analysis, similar to someone explaining what "dirty" means and where it happened in the sets?
     
    Everything you want is on the other side of fear. Be fearless.
     
     
     
    Edit: The Keller analysis was just any easy example of how not all productive feedback is positive. I have no problem with those comments. They are accurate, the closer is extremely dirty, especially by Keller standards. Don't expect it to stay that way.
  12. Like
    1998-2018 got a reaction from El Gato_01 in BOA Waco 2019   
    This is the kind of question that can get me in trouble but I'm willing to give it a try with a new sensitivity to the pain points. First let me say I think Hendrickson is a high quality program. The kids are talented and have been San Antonio Super Regional Finalist the last two years. If the kids have a role in this placement it is minor. They are not the issue and are not at fault. Clear? I'm just being careful after last season and don't want any misunderstanding.
     
    Addition disclosure for additional clarity:
    I first saw the show in the video from the Texas Music Classic and almost immediately thought it was headed for problems at BOA. By the end of the show I had mentality removed it from my list of potential San Antonio Finalist but decided to reserve final judgement until seeing it live at BOA Waco. That didn't help, instead it did more damage and I felt bad for the kids who have been put in this position. I definitely didn't have them in Finals at Waco.
     
    But 17th seems harsh.
     
    So the question is why?
     
    This sounds like a summary, not a direct quote from the judges comments. I'd bet it's an accidental mischaracterization of the judges comments, or at least their intended message.
     
     
    Wait, let's tap the brakes there. Hendrickson does tell us at the beginning of the show what they are trying to do. Their message is clear, so this is probably a big indication it's the judges intended message that has been misunderstood.
     
    Early in the 2015 season a Judge actually audibly yawned while telling Keller Central their show "just isn't working". They made significant changes and ended the season with a performance in Grand National Championships Semi-Finals.
     
    This kind of feedback from Judges may be more common in WGI competition. I was at an early season clinic where Judges directly asked a group right after their performance, "What is your show about?". Nobody in the Guard knew. The Judges told them, "We can't tell either and that's going to be a big problem if it doesn't change." The director explained the show concept to the girls but didn't make design/choreography changes and other Judges comments and scores continued to reflect the design problem.
     
    LeanderMomma, we both travel in the WGI world. Remember the CGT Dallas 2018 show "Dust and Ashes"? Early in the season a panel of judges told them they loved the show but couldn't tell what it was about? Something Russian...but they needed to know more for proper GE context and higher scores. So CGT added a hilarious, snarky pre-show that introduced the characters and the play the show was based on. The rest is unforgettable Finals history in Dayton.
     
    But Hendrickson already has a clear introduction so that shouldn't be the problem.
     
    It's been suggested that maybe the judges aren't familiar with the disco era, so let's examine what defined Studio 54?
     
    First was extremely limited access.
    The stories of the velvet rope are legendary. One night a newlywed couple showed up still in wedding dress and tuxedo. Just to see what would happen they were told at the rope the bride could come in but the groom couldn't. She reported had a great time inside while he waited outside furious with her and Security. No report on whether or not they are still married. Celebrities were regularly turned away. Ironically, CHIC's huge disco hit Le Freak was written by Niles Rodgers after members of the band were invited to Studio 54 and then denied access. "Freak out" was not the original lyric.
     
    Once inside the experience was defined by:
    Disco Music
    Disco Dancing
    Fashion
    Drugs
    Sex
    Absolute Decadence
     
    How many of these things also define the Hendrickson show?
     
    Extremely limited access? Not really, it's not demonstrated on the field in a memorable way that defines the show.
     
    Disco Music? Yes, the melodies are there but the relentlessly driving groove of a dance club is never the strength of any marching band. It's a problematic design choice.
     
    Disco Dancing? Not at a level that defines the show.
     
    Fashion? Sort of, but not really. The Guard fashion looks like 1967 to 1972. Studio 54 opened ten years later, in 1977, and fashion had changed considerably. It would probably be helpful if they looked less like flamboyant extras from The Mod Squad and more like the cast of Saturday Night Fever or even The Village People.
     
    Drugs? Definitely not.
     
    Sex? No, not even a little.
     
    Decadence? It's in the name of the show but that's as far as it goes and for a high school marching band, that is as it should be.
     
    As I'm writing this I realized this could be an awesome design concept for CGT. They could easily overcome many of the hurdles because of the different performance style expectations and environment. But that doesn't necessarily make it a good choice for Hendrickson.
     
    With all this in mind I don't think the Judges were saying they didn't understand the concept. It seems more likely they think the show didn't well represent the stated concept. Two very different things.
     
    And that's not on the kids.
     
    It's a tough question that needs to be answered. It's worth noting that most of the excitement surrounding Hendrickson came after TMC and that's not a BOA event. Hendrickson didn't make Finals at BOA Austin either though it could be argued that was a deeper field and they placed 12th, not 17th. No easy answers for either BOA or Hendrickson.
     
    A final thought. Proofreading through this I wonder if some may read it and think I'm on thin ice or wish this kind of analysis wasn't part of the forum. I am open to feedback. Please keep it polite and remember I have repeatedly excluded or defended the kids. Is what I have said any different than all the comments about how dirty the Keller closer was? Or is it just a more detailed analysis, similar to someone explaining what "dirty" means and where it happened in the sets?
     
    Everything you want is on the other side of fear. Be fearless.
     
     
     
    Edit: The Keller analysis was just any easy example of how not all productive feedback is positive. I have no problem with those comments. They are accurate, the closer is extremely dirty, especially by Keller standards. Don't expect it to stay that way.
  13. Like
    1998-2018 reacted to vbassoon in 2019 BOA San Antonio   
    I knew this beforehand...but now, it really hit me how hard making finals will be. 
  14. Like
    1998-2018 got a reaction from josephbandfan in BOA Waco 2019   
    This is the kind of question that can get me in trouble but I'm willing to give it a try with a new sensitivity to the pain points. First let me say I think Hendrickson is a high quality program. The kids are talented and have been San Antonio Super Regional Finalist the last two years. If the kids have a role in this placement it is minor. They are not the issue and are not at fault. Clear? I'm just being careful after last season and don't want any misunderstanding.
     
    Addition disclosure for additional clarity:
    I first saw the show in the video from the Texas Music Classic and almost immediately thought it was headed for problems at BOA. By the end of the show I had mentality removed it from my list of potential San Antonio Finalist but decided to reserve final judgement until seeing it live at BOA Waco. That didn't help, instead it did more damage and I felt bad for the kids who have been put in this position. I definitely didn't have them in Finals at Waco.
     
    But 17th seems harsh.
     
    So the question is why?
     
    This sounds like a summary, not a direct quote from the judges comments. I'd bet it's an accidental mischaracterization of the judges comments, or at least their intended message.
     
     
    Wait, let's tap the brakes there. Hendrickson does tell us at the beginning of the show what they are trying to do. Their message is clear, so this is probably a big indication it's the judges intended message that has been misunderstood.
     
    Early in the 2015 season a Judge actually audibly yawned while telling Keller Central their show "just isn't working". They made significant changes and ended the season with a performance in Grand National Championships Semi-Finals.
     
    This kind of feedback from Judges may be more common in WGI competition. I was at an early season clinic where Judges directly asked a group right after their performance, "What is your show about?". Nobody in the Guard knew. The Judges told them, "We can't tell either and that's going to be a big problem if it doesn't change." The director explained the show concept to the girls but didn't make design/choreography changes and other Judges comments and scores continued to reflect the design problem.
     
    LeanderMomma, we both travel in the WGI world. Remember the CGT Dallas 2018 show "Dust and Ashes"? Early in the season a panel of judges told them they loved the show but couldn't tell what it was about? Something Russian...but they needed to know more for proper GE context and higher scores. So CGT added a hilarious, snarky pre-show that introduced the characters and the play the show was based on. The rest is unforgettable Finals history in Dayton.
     
    But Hendrickson already has a clear introduction so that shouldn't be the problem.
     
    It's been suggested that maybe the judges aren't familiar with the disco era, so let's examine what defined Studio 54?
     
    First was extremely limited access.
    The stories of the velvet rope are legendary. One night a newlywed couple showed up still in wedding dress and tuxedo. Just to see what would happen they were told at the rope the bride could come in but the groom couldn't. She reported had a great time inside while he waited outside furious with her and Security. No report on whether or not they are still married. Celebrities were regularly turned away. Ironically, CHIC's huge disco hit Le Freak was written by Niles Rodgers after members of the band were invited to Studio 54 and then denied access. "Freak out" was not the original lyric.
     
    Once inside the experience was defined by:
    Disco Music
    Disco Dancing
    Fashion
    Drugs
    Sex
    Absolute Decadence
     
    How many of these things also define the Hendrickson show?
     
    Extremely limited access? Not really, it's not demonstrated on the field in a memorable way that defines the show.
     
    Disco Music? Yes, the melodies are there but the relentlessly driving groove of a dance club is never the strength of any marching band. It's a problematic design choice.
     
    Disco Dancing? Not at a level that defines the show.
     
    Fashion? Sort of, but not really. The Guard fashion looks like 1967 to 1972. Studio 54 opened ten years later, in 1977, and fashion had changed considerably. It would probably be helpful if they looked less like flamboyant extras from The Mod Squad and more like the cast of Saturday Night Fever or even The Village People.
     
    Drugs? Definitely not.
     
    Sex? No, not even a little.
     
    Decadence? It's in the name of the show but that's as far as it goes and for a high school marching band, that is as it should be.
     
    As I'm writing this I realized this could be an awesome design concept for CGT. They could easily overcome many of the hurdles because of the different performance style expectations and environment. But that doesn't necessarily make it a good choice for Hendrickson.
     
    With all this in mind I don't think the Judges were saying they didn't understand the concept. It seems more likely they think the show didn't well represent the stated concept. Two very different things.
     
    And that's not on the kids.
     
    It's a tough question that needs to be answered. It's worth noting that most of the excitement surrounding Hendrickson came after TMC and that's not a BOA event. Hendrickson didn't make Finals at BOA Austin either though it could be argued that was a deeper field and they placed 12th, not 17th. No easy answers for either BOA or Hendrickson.
     
    A final thought. Proofreading through this I wonder if some may read it and think I'm on thin ice or wish this kind of analysis wasn't part of the forum. I am open to feedback. Please keep it polite and remember I have repeatedly excluded or defended the kids. Is what I have said any different than all the comments about how dirty the Keller closer was? Or is it just a more detailed analysis, similar to someone explaining what "dirty" means and where it happened in the sets?
     
    Everything you want is on the other side of fear. Be fearless.
     
     
     
    Edit: The Keller analysis was just any easy example of how not all productive feedback is positive. I have no problem with those comments. They are accurate, the closer is extremely dirty, especially by Keller standards. Don't expect it to stay that way.
  15. Like
    1998-2018 got a reaction from WoodlandsMom4ever in BOA Waco 2019   
    This is the kind of question that can get me in trouble but I'm willing to give it a try with a new sensitivity to the pain points. First let me say I think Hendrickson is a high quality program. The kids are talented and have been San Antonio Super Regional Finalist the last two years. If the kids have a role in this placement it is minor. They are not the issue and are not at fault. Clear? I'm just being careful after last season and don't want any misunderstanding.
     
    Addition disclosure for additional clarity:
    I first saw the show in the video from the Texas Music Classic and almost immediately thought it was headed for problems at BOA. By the end of the show I had mentality removed it from my list of potential San Antonio Finalist but decided to reserve final judgement until seeing it live at BOA Waco. That didn't help, instead it did more damage and I felt bad for the kids who have been put in this position. I definitely didn't have them in Finals at Waco.
     
    But 17th seems harsh.
     
    So the question is why?
     
    This sounds like a summary, not a direct quote from the judges comments. I'd bet it's an accidental mischaracterization of the judges comments, or at least their intended message.
     
     
    Wait, let's tap the brakes there. Hendrickson does tell us at the beginning of the show what they are trying to do. Their message is clear, so this is probably a big indication it's the judges intended message that has been misunderstood.
     
    Early in the 2015 season a Judge actually audibly yawned while telling Keller Central their show "just isn't working". They made significant changes and ended the season with a performance in Grand National Championships Semi-Finals.
     
    This kind of feedback from Judges may be more common in WGI competition. I was at an early season clinic where Judges directly asked a group right after their performance, "What is your show about?". Nobody in the Guard knew. The Judges told them, "We can't tell either and that's going to be a big problem if it doesn't change." The director explained the show concept to the girls but didn't make design/choreography changes and other Judges comments and scores continued to reflect the design problem.
     
    LeanderMomma, we both travel in the WGI world. Remember the CGT Dallas 2018 show "Dust and Ashes"? Early in the season a panel of judges told them they loved the show but couldn't tell what it was about? Something Russian...but they needed to know more for proper GE context and higher scores. So CGT added a hilarious, snarky pre-show that introduced the characters and the play the show was based on. The rest is unforgettable Finals history in Dayton.
     
    But Hendrickson already has a clear introduction so that shouldn't be the problem.
     
    It's been suggested that maybe the judges aren't familiar with the disco era, so let's examine what defined Studio 54?
     
    First was extremely limited access.
    The stories of the velvet rope are legendary. One night a newlywed couple showed up still in wedding dress and tuxedo. Just to see what would happen they were told at the rope the bride could come in but the groom couldn't. She reported had a great time inside while he waited outside furious with her and Security. No report on whether or not they are still married. Celebrities were regularly turned away. Ironically, CHIC's huge disco hit Le Freak was written by Niles Rodgers after members of the band were invited to Studio 54 and then denied access. "Freak out" was not the original lyric.
     
    Once inside the experience was defined by:
    Disco Music
    Disco Dancing
    Fashion
    Drugs
    Sex
    Absolute Decadence
     
    How many of these things also define the Hendrickson show?
     
    Extremely limited access? Not really, it's not demonstrated on the field in a memorable way that defines the show.
     
    Disco Music? Yes, the melodies are there but the relentlessly driving groove of a dance club is never the strength of any marching band. It's a problematic design choice.
     
    Disco Dancing? Not at a level that defines the show.
     
    Fashion? Sort of, but not really. The Guard fashion looks like 1967 to 1972. Studio 54 opened ten years later, in 1977, and fashion had changed considerably. It would probably be helpful if they looked less like flamboyant extras from The Mod Squad and more like the cast of Saturday Night Fever or even The Village People.
     
    Drugs? Definitely not.
     
    Sex? No, not even a little.
     
    Decadence? It's in the name of the show but that's as far as it goes and for a high school marching band, that is as it should be.
     
    As I'm writing this I realized this could be an awesome design concept for CGT. They could easily overcome many of the hurdles because of the different performance style expectations and environment. But that doesn't necessarily make it a good choice for Hendrickson.
     
    With all this in mind I don't think the Judges were saying they didn't understand the concept. It seems more likely they think the show didn't well represent the stated concept. Two very different things.
     
    And that's not on the kids.
     
    It's a tough question that needs to be answered. It's worth noting that most of the excitement surrounding Hendrickson came after TMC and that's not a BOA event. Hendrickson didn't make Finals at BOA Austin either though it could be argued that was a deeper field and they placed 12th, not 17th. No easy answers for either BOA or Hendrickson.
     
    A final thought. Proofreading through this I wonder if some may read it and think I'm on thin ice or wish this kind of analysis wasn't part of the forum. I am open to feedback. Please keep it polite and remember I have repeatedly excluded or defended the kids. Is what I have said any different than all the comments about how dirty the Keller closer was? Or is it just a more detailed analysis, similar to someone explaining what "dirty" means and where it happened in the sets?
     
    Everything you want is on the other side of fear. Be fearless.
     
     
     
    Edit: The Keller analysis was just any easy example of how not all productive feedback is positive. I have no problem with those comments. They are accurate, the closer is extremely dirty, especially by Keller standards. Don't expect it to stay that way.
  16. Like
    1998-2018 got a reaction from BlueCircle in BOA Waco 2019   
    No, correct year but the wrong bands and splits. My apologies. Please see below...
     
     
    Me too...and getting old sucks. This is what happens when I get in a hurry and work from memory because my wife is waiting impatiently for me to do something she insists in more important than TxBands. I guess she could be correct about the order of priorities, but it seems like a long shot...
     
    Please see above... Yes, as you said the point is still valid despite my erroneous example. It was L.D. Bell who went from ahead to behind Keller by a roughly equivalent split and this time we're not talking about a tenth. It was the Coppell swing that was more drastic. I'm very aware of how performance time and order can impact scores as well as the concept that Prelims are for getting the right bands into Finals and Finals are for getting the bands in the correct order. Unfortunately, in this case the additional swings I didn't previously address clearly indicate that without a Finalist withdrawing, another band would have been left out of Finals that, based on the final results, shouldn't have been. I'm concerned this competition isn't big enough to warrant these issues and Jeffery's question may be on the right track. Is BOA having trouble getting all the judges on the same page? I've been doing this a long time and my impression is this is happening more frequently then it used too.
     
    The San Antonio Super Regional is big enough to amplify all this but I don't think the additional variable of a two panel judging system contributes in a meaningful way with one possible exception. The reliability of the two panel system is well proven at Grand Nationals, the exception is Semifinals judged by a single panel. If San Antonio is big enough for two judging panels, it's big enough for a single panel Semifinal. The logistics of putting that in place are more complicated them the current solution so the transition to Semifinals will take time.
  17. Like
    1998-2018 got a reaction from band.dad in 2019 BOA Grand National Championships   
    YIKES! Come on, banddad84...uh...maybe it's time to go walk the dog or something. You regularly make valuable contributions to this forum, but that's certainly not one. So far this season I've been in a self-imposed exile after LeanderMomma unofficially crowned me the King of Unnecessarily Snarky Sarcasm at the end of last season but you just brought me back to ask if I need to abdicate? I recognize the conversation had become contentious and bordered on provocative, but that clearly crossed the line. I've definitely had my moments of weakness too. I know from experience, you're better than that comment would indicate. 
    LeanderMomma, in many ways you and your caring nature represent the best of who we are on TxBands and I have felt all along you and I should talk about when I crossed the line at the end of last season. Because you were neither a target of the venom, nor one of the snakes in the grass, my guess is you are probably unaware of the role you specifically played in the early stages of that incident. One of your comments was clearly the fork in the road for me. Now that you are a moderator on the HornRank forum it seems even more important to talk. I take full responsibility for the path I followed and adding you to the HornRank Moderator Team is well deserved. My only hope is you would find helpful insight in hearing my perspective on where I went wrong. Maybe we can find a few minutes in San Antonio. I'd like to clear the air with you.
     
    Edit: My sentences should end with correct punctuation.
  18. Like
    1998-2018 got a reaction from An Inspirational Pinecone in 2019 BOA Grand National Championships   
    I'm disappointed to learn I misjudged you. I will update my opinion and expectations accordingly.
     
    I also abdicate my crown to you, with a word of caution. An eye for an eye can only lead to an endless cycle of escalation and a blind community.
     
    I would also ask, with little expectation that you will listen, that in the future you just skip the "have a great day" nonsense. Your use of that phrase follows an obvious trend and passive aggression is still aggression.
  19. Like
    1998-2018 got a reaction from An Inspirational Pinecone in 2019 BOA Grand National Championships   
    Breakfast for the band kids the morning of the parade was not extravagant, but it was $11,367.29.
     
    And VERY early...
  20. Like
    1998-2018 got a reaction from LeanderMomma in 2019 BOA Grand National Championships   
    To be clear, you didn't say anything to cause my self-imposed exile. I did. I'm just saying there was an early opportunity to defuse the situation and it was missed.
  21. Like
    1998-2018 got a reaction from An Inspirational Pinecone in 2019 BOA Grand National Championships   
    YIKES! Come on, banddad84...uh...maybe it's time to go walk the dog or something. You regularly make valuable contributions to this forum, but that's certainly not one. So far this season I've been in a self-imposed exile after LeanderMomma unofficially crowned me the King of Unnecessarily Snarky Sarcasm at the end of last season but you just brought me back to ask if I need to abdicate? I recognize the conversation had become contentious and bordered on provocative, but that clearly crossed the line. I've definitely had my moments of weakness too. I know from experience, you're better than that comment would indicate. 
    LeanderMomma, in many ways you and your caring nature represent the best of who we are on TxBands and I have felt all along you and I should talk about when I crossed the line at the end of last season. Because you were neither a target of the venom, nor one of the snakes in the grass, my guess is you are probably unaware of the role you specifically played in the early stages of that incident. One of your comments was clearly the fork in the road for me. Now that you are a moderator on the HornRank forum it seems even more important to talk. I take full responsibility for the path I followed and adding you to the HornRank Moderator Team is well deserved. My only hope is you would find helpful insight in hearing my perspective on where I went wrong. Maybe we can find a few minutes in San Antonio. I'd like to clear the air with you.
     
    Edit: My sentences should end with correct punctuation.
  22. Like
    1998-2018 got a reaction from MikeKyu in Songs you love to see in a program   
    Sound of Silence while the Pit played Beethoven underneath. Shear genius arrangement! Beautiful beyond words. Clean drill too. Probably should have won BOA SA in my book.
  23. Like
    1998-2018 got a reaction from FloMoParent in San Antonio Vs. Grand Nationals   
    People, please go to Indy and see the event before suggesting rotation, or that it could be held at the Alamodome, et cetera. Could and should are two drastically different things. Nowhere else even comes close to what Lucas Oil Stadium, the Convention Center, and the connected hotels and restaurants collectively offer. Even ignoring the huge difference in sound, did you notice AvonDad said 19 degrees with wind chill in the single digits? We sometimes get that here in Texas too. At Indy, literally the only time Texas bands have to go outside is when they get off the bus when they arrive and onto the bus to go back to Texas. Everything else including full size practice space, the stadium, hotels, food, stores, and whatever else you might need is connected by warm indoor walkways. We don't have anything that comes even remotely close to their facilities.
     
    Do you remember the Superbowl at Jerry World a few years ago? Is that what you want the best band kids in the country to possibly go through and remember about their trip to Grand Nationals?
     
    We all know AvonDad is fortunate to have Grand Nationals in his backyard. The Avon parents I have talked with can't believe how fortunate we are to have the insane level of competition in our backyard. Let's just continue to make the trip. Besides it's part of what makes Grand Nationals special and sooner or later AvonDad is going to throw his trump card and win the hand. He knows Lucas Oil Stadium has escalators instead of stairs.
  24. Like
    1998-2018 got a reaction from BlackJesus in 2018 6A State   
    I've been away from TxBands for a couple days and had some catching up to do. I'm going to skip the quote process tonight and just share a few thoughts directly about what I just read. Some of it may repeat earlier comments to bring them back to the forefront because this monster conversation has been wondering and wagging its tail all through the weeds.
     
    First, Mr. Move on, move on, move on... Just because this has happened before doesn't mean it has to happen again. If you're not contributing in a positive way or enjoying this difficult topic, maybe you would be happier if you just take your own advice and move on to another topic. Some of us are trying to explore possible solutions. Others are working through their grief and frustration. Your contributions are often helpful but you missed the mark this time. The same to others of a similar ilk.
     
    Second, this is not about Round Rock or just this year. The Round Rock parents seem to understand they are just the latest example of a bigger issue. That point seems to be lost on some of you. Others are discouragingly indifferent.
     
    Currently there is no "bad judge rule". That derogatory slang is part of what is confusing this issue. Yes, we need a solution to judging deviation but the perspective that accompanies that slang won't be well received by the UIL. The rule many of you are actually referring to is called the "judges preference rule" by the UIL. It has two main components. Application of one of them correctly advanced Leander to the SMBC where they made Finals. A perfect example of why the rule exists. The other component was rather haphazardly applied at Area B Finals due to the unclear way it was written. It was initially applied in a way that seemed consistent with the intent but was reversed the next day because making the rule scaleable was not expressly directed. Neither Keller or Waxahachie, the two bands involved, seemed overly concerned as both bands were advancing either way. It has be reported that UIL is reviewing and clarify whether or not application of the rule is scalable to include Area results. Understanding the rule and its intent would be helpful for those interested in how UIL currently deals with judging deviation.
     
    Saying UIL doesn't care is both inaccurate and unfair. It also reveals a fundamental misunderstanding of what and who the UIL is.
     
    Saying Directors who just advanced to the 6A SMBC Finals don't care is also wildly inaccurate. These are the Directors most likely to support change. They have all felt the sting of judging deviation many times.
     
    It would help if people stopped using the term UIL without understanding it and how rules get changed. For example when you blame "The Government" you are really blaming "We The People". That's who the government is in this country. If you don't like what's happening, get involved and vote. Similarly, when you blame "The UIL" you are really talking about "We The Directors" and how they vote. All the Directors in Texas have an opportunity to fix this in the spring. Some are very concerned about this and other big picture issues. Others could be described as indifferent. A third group is openly hostile to change of any kind. That's why I explained in an earlier post how important it is to know where your Director stands and what they are doing to either influence or impede change.
     
    And yes, there is a decoder ring. But even if you have access to one it takes forever to learn how to use it correctly.
  25. Like
    1998-2018 reacted to principalagent in San Antonio Vs. Grand Nationals   
    I think that’s one of the biggest issues. There would be absolutely no incentive for most bands to travel to Texas if GN were there. For one, the coffers aren’t nearly as deep in other parts of the country to justify only performing once (not that Texas bands go to GN just to perform once, but support for music education is MUCH higher financially and only three Texas bands since 2008 haven’t made Semis). And second, it would ruin the regional diversity we like in an event like that. Even if some bands actually get closer to the venue (looking at you Oklahoma and California), there’s a reason those groups don’t or rarely come to our regionals in the first place.
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