UIL 6A Area J 2024

[BassBone_2024]

9 hours ago, clarineterrrr said:

that's just how the music world works. the guy with the most money wins. 

Point of note, Braswell is a Title 1 school. 

[BulldogMN]

2 hours ago, BassBoneBro said:

I think Rockhill should’ve made finals over Plano East

Plano East has been having a fantastic season even with a slower start at McKinney, placing right behind some very strong schools in Walnut Grove and JJ P. I believe rock hill had some issues following their school splitting but the talent development is definitely present. 

2 hours ago, BassBoneBro said:

I think Rockhill should’ve made finals over Plano East

 

[bandfromplanoarea]

6 minutes ago, BulldogMN said:

Plano East has been having a fantastic season even with a slower start at McKinney, placing right behind some very strong schools in Walnut Grove and JJ P. I believe rock hill had some issues following their school splitting but the talent development is definitely present. 

 

at plano east was pretty comfortable with pemi and mckinney results but really felt like they were falling off after duncanville

[JFNDOWBFAN]

30 minutes ago, BassBone_2024 said:

Point of note, Braswell is a Title 1 school. 

Wouldn’t know by their marching. I work at a title 1 school (another hint to JFND fans trying to figure me out). Title 1 kids are the best and so are band kids…so title 1 bands kids are fricking amazing in my book!

 

[RandomBandDad]

I find it interesting that the top 5 all run a block schedule as do many, if not most, of the top programs in the state. This allows so much extra time for preparation that other schools just don't have. To me it's amazing how well these other schools do given their time limitations compared to the block schedule schools. It almost seems like there should be a separate category. My two cents. It was a great finals, and congratulations to the bands representing area J at state. 

Forgive me if this topic has been beaten to death in the past, I'm fairly new. 

[LostChoirGuy]

I think it's funny that the money argument is popping up on what is probably overall the wealthiest area in the state.  Yes, there may still be some economic disparity between some of the schools and school districts, but this area consist of almost entirely new growth suburbs.

[JFNDOWBFAN]

It’s not what you can afford, it’s what you can do with what you can afford. 

[Tubalord11]

Congratulations to Hebron, Flomwermound  Marcus and Prosper on making state!!! Was definitely a little shocked to not see Rockhill in finals, hoping they are doing okay, but super happy for those PESH kids!! Braswell really finishing their season hot, happy to see East finally make finals at a comp this year, hopefully they have better results next year as I loved their show and don't understand why they had the season they did. Other than that, no big surprises here, congratulations to everyone who competed here yesterday!! 

[BandDad74]

2 hours ago, TrenBS said:

This is half true in my opinion, because while the district itself isnt exactly as wealthy as others, each of the 3 major band focused schools in this district report budgets that approach 1 million a year (Marcus on the lowest end), or exceed 1-1.1 million dollars a year (Flower Mound and Hebron), meanwhile schools like Boyd (placement is definitely accurate) only get 1/5 of that a year at best, averaging 150k-200k a year, and that could be on the higher end for this area easily since McKinney is a generally financially wealthy city (you can see all of this publicly since bands are non-profits)

Now I dont think budget absolutely correlates to success, or that the Lewisville schools are just handed money, but it definitely plays a solid factor in the quality of facilities, competitive opportunities, instruments, and overall music opportunities to these schools, which definitely correlates on a couple levels to their dominance, but again, they still need to work their butts of to utilize whats given to them, which they absolutely do, I just disagree with the initial statement and COULD come off as rude to actually financially poor districts

It’s also how the districts are set up and how the booster clubs are allowed to operate.  
 

for instance - some districts do not allow any booster clubs for their bands.  So that poses other challenges.   So a district that doesn’t allow, or limits what a booster club can do/pay for will have different numbers to report than others.  
 

And the numbers you quoted can be deceiving.  I believe that they also include the feeder middle schools in those - so it’s not all the high school program, you have 3-4 middle schools that contributes to those numbers.  While i would imagine they are not equivalent in terms of spending - they do figure in that overall number.  
 

I am pretty sure that those numbers you quoted do not have a significant amount of  money, if any,  from the district in them.  That’s all raised by parents and students to help pay for things. 
 

I’m not saying money doesn’t help -  but I am saying that it’s almost criminal how little the arts, as a whole, get direct funding from the district.  And I’m not blaming the district either - when you have a state legislature that hasn’t  increased the allotment for years because charter school vouchers hasn’t passed (and are sitting on Billions (yes with a “B”)  of dollars - it’s just not right….

 

[propDad23]

39 minutes ago, LostChoirGuy said:

I think it's funny that the money argument is popping up on what is probably overall the wealthiest area in the state.  Yes, there may still be some economic disparity between some of the schools and school districts, but this area consist of almost entirely new growth suburbs.

This money argument gets so old. It completely discounts all the work the kids, staff, and parents put into the program.

Just throwing money and a band doesn't make them great. You have to have great directors that can foster these kids starting in middle school to become great musicians. You need the support of the boosters and parents that will be willing to make band their lives for 4 years and sometime beyond. And of course the support the district thats willing to back these programs. I don't think it's a coincidence that the top three bands in the DFW area come from one district.

Some directors, some districts, some boosters are just better at what they do than others.

[NTXBandMom]

I think block scheduling may have more of an impact than money in a program.

There are so many amazing bands in this Area and it is a wonder to watch them all perform amazing shows. Every kid, parent, and director should be proud of the program they are part of - whether they will continue on to state or not. It was a joy to watch them perform. 

[seafoodbuffet]

2 minutes ago, propDad23 said:

I don't think it's a coincidence that the top three bands in the DFW area come from one district.

Yeah, ditto with LISD south. It’s such a large geographic area that it’s definitely not economically a homogenous zone yet they managed for every band in the district to make it to the state contest. You can’t just buy that.

[JFNDOWBFAN]

1 hour ago, NTXBandMom said:

I think block scheduling may have more of an impact than money in a program.

There are so many amazing bands in this Area and it is a wonder to watch them all perform amazing shows. Every kid, parent, and director should be proud of the program they are part of - whether they will continue on to state or not. It was a joy to watch them perform. 

Genuinely curious how you perceive block scheduling impacts bands? The UIL determines the exact amount of rehearsal hours you can work on a show each week, no?

[TrenBS]

1 hour ago, BandDad74 said:

It’s also how the districts are set up and how the booster clubs are allowed to operate.  
 

for instance - some districts do not allow any booster clubs for their bands.  So that poses other challenges.   So a district that doesn’t allow, or limits what a booster club can do/pay for will have different numbers to report than others.  
 

And the numbers you quoted can be deceiving.  I believe that they also include the feeder middle schools in those - so it’s not all the high school program, you have 3-4 middle schools that contributes to those numbers.  While i would imagine they are not equivalent in terms of spending - they do figure in that overall number.  
 

I am pretty sure that those numbers you quoted do not have a significant amount of  money, if any,  from the district in them.  That’s all raised by parents and students to help pay for things. 
 

I’m not saying money doesn’t help -  but I am saying that it’s almost criminal how little the arts, as a whole, get direct funding from the district.  And I’m not blaming the district either - when you have a state legislature that hasn’t  increased the allotment for years because charter school vouchers hasn’t passed (and are sitting on Billions (yes with a “B”)  of dollars - it’s just not right….

 

Middle schools also have to ring in their own budgeting as they are their own separate entities compared to the high schools. They cannot have their earnings be reporting to a completely different non-profit who has their own financial responsibilities or that would raise concerns to what the true budget that is raised from the high school, or at worst can be perceived as a form of money laundering, which sounds ridiculous but this has actually happened to schools before and has led to staff being fired.

And Im not saying they reach these numbers through just the district or that they arent actively fundraising to reach these numbers, but the fact stands that they have more money running through the program which better sets them up for success, and again thats NOT saying its the sole reason for their success cause many other schools burn money and still place relatively low to what they SHOULD get according to the money argument. LISD (on both ends) arguably have the best staff top to bottom in their districts, which are the most important factors to a bands success, since teachers dictate the pace a school can learn or progress as a whole, and in my opinion, its impossible to see success with a terrible teacher since student can only move as fast as theyre allowed for marching band.

Again clarifying what is being discussed, regardless of where the money is exactly from, LISD has probably some of the largest amounts of funding going through them which allow them to make higher quality shows on average to the rest of the state, which again ISNT saying thats the sole purpose of their success, but is definitely contributing to their dominance in any circuit they compete in, since at some point raw skill isnt enough to place with the likes of Vandegrift, Woodlands, Avon, etc.

And yes, bands need more funding from the districts as a whole

[NTXBandMom]

4 minutes ago, JFNDOWBFAN said:

Genuinely curious how you perceive block scheduling impacts bands? The UIL determines the exact amount of rehearsal hours you can work on a show each week, no?

It is my understanding that UIL dictates how much practice time is allowed outside of the school day. Schools that use block scheduling are essentially getting twice as many practice hours during the school day as part of their daily schedule than schools that don’t block schedules.

Of course there may be other schools outside of LISD that do block scheduling and don’t make finals/state so that theory may not hold up. Maybe it’s block scheduling + big money. Maybe it’s all that and directors building strong programs. Who knows?

And if my understanding about the UIL rules is incorrect, then it is. I’m not an expert. 

 

 

[TrenBS]

Just now, NTXBandMom said:

It is my understanding that UIL dictates how much practice time is allowed outside of the school day. Schools that use block scheduling are essentially getting twice as many practice hours during the school day as part of their daily schedule than schools that don’t block schedules.

Of course there may be other schools outside of LISD that do block scheduling and don’t make finals/state so that theory may not hold up. Maybe it’s block scheduling + big money. Maybe it’s all that and directors building strong programs. Who knows?

And if my understanding about the UIL rules is incorrect, then it is. I’m not an expert. 

 

 

From what I understand about block scheduling, all that really means is that some days get 2 hours for their band period every 2-3 days as opposed to 1 hour each day, so if band periods are put on the 3 days, thats an extra hour of inside practice without violating any UIL guidelines

Could be wrong but thats what I understand from it lol

[JFNDOWBFAN]

4 minutes ago, NTXBandMom said:

It is my understanding that UIL dictates how much practice time is allowed outside of the school day. Schools that use block scheduling are essentially getting twice as many practice hours during the school day as part of their daily schedule than schools that don’t block schedules.

Of course there may be other schools outside of LISD that do block scheduling and don’t make finals/state so that theory may not hold up. Maybe it’s block scheduling + big money. Maybe it’s all that and directors building strong programs. Who knows?

And if my understanding about the UIL rules is incorrect, then it is. I’m not an expert. 

 

 

I’m more curious about unofficial practices 😂 

[Hello123454321]

Did anyone hear about Prosper Drumline playing 30min before their warmup time?

[RandomBandDad]

Yes the UIL dictates out of school hours to practice. Most block schools work it so there is band every day during the fall semester, not just every other day. "A" schedule has marching and "B" schedule the individual band the student is in. Non of this time counts toward the number of hours allowed as it's during the school day. It is literally an extra 40 minutes per day of practice. By this point of the season they have had an extra 35-40 hours of practice. 

[BandDad74]

1 hour ago, JFNDOWBFAN said:

I’m more curious about unofficial practices 😂 

Every band that falls under UIL (i.e. every band in the state of texas) that i have dealt with is very strict about holding themselves to that 8 hour rule.   Nothing outside of those hours.

 

That being said - nothing in UIL rules prevents a group of students from getting together themselves and have section bonding activities or whatever….

 

[Samuel Culper]

If schools that do block scheduling allow for double-blocking band class, why can't schools that are not on block scheduling allow for a double period of band?

[JFNDOWBFAN]

43 minutes ago, Samuel Culper said:

If schools that do block scheduling allow for double-blocking band class, why can't schools that are not on block scheduling allow for a double period of band?

Fair question, assume these are strictly district decisions?

[Samuel Culper]

27 minutes ago, JFNDOWBFAN said:

Fair question, assume these are strictly district decisions?

Certainly.  My point is that the block scheduling is not the issue. A district could just as easily have block scheduling and NOT allow the double block for band.

[Geekerho]

Anybody have the score sheet with the raw scores for finals?

[xeran]

I need to clarify something for the folks crying foul about money.

Some of the bands at the top are keeping their equipment together with zipties, duct tape, and a handful of parents who aren't afraid to cobble solutions together with a bit of welding or creative application of fasteners.

Furthermore, 2 of the 3 LISD (north) schools -- maybe all 3 -- have a STUNNING number of kids on free/reduced lunch. Think 25%+.

While money certainly helps, money is NOT buying these results. Money pays show designers, arrangers, field techs, lesson teachers, etc. It also buys props materials, extra uniform pieces, and other items which can contribute to Visual scores. But getting kids to practice and grind and sweat and shine under the pressure and the lights...money does NOTHING for any of that.

Thus, money is simply NOT the answer you might imagine.

Booster Clubs exist because the school is the school. Everything the school doesn't fund (they fund very little outside of instruments and UIL contest costs) is funded by donations, fundraising, and fees. All 3 of those things funnel through the Booster Club. The school owns assets and the Booster Club owns assets. Where that line is drawn can vary a bit.

The school band program is an entity of the school and thus occupies a very particular legal territory. The band's Booster Club is a nonprofit structured a very particular way which is quite different from the public school component that is the band.

If you want to understand this better, feel free to DM me.