2023 BOA San Antonio Super Regional (Nov. 3 & 4)

[seafoodbuffet]

28 minutes ago, MilBandDude said:

Yes, but question was about traditional Color Guard which Vandegrift does not use. Are more bands going to abandon Color Guard in favor of more Dance centric programs now that Vandegrift has showed so much success using it?

There was a joke after Vandy won grand nats in 2019 that it was time for programs to get with the times and drop their guard. I think that kind of thinking stems from a flawed assumption that a dance group is somehow “easier”. It very much is not and I don’t think groups with elite colorguard programs would be able easily convert their members to a dance company any more easily than a group like Vandy could start adding rifle/sabre tosses to their program. It takes years of training starting from a young age to develop the body control, fluidity of movement, and strength/flexibility to achieve that movement. Coupled with having to be in sync with dozens of members, it’s hard stuff to pull off. 

If not having a guard were easier, don’t you think a lot more groups would be doing it? It’s all about program philosophy and approach and I’m glad more than one formula can work well.

Personally I think it’s a good thing that most sheets don’t require specific equipment. It allows for much greater diversity of show styles and that’s a win for marching band in general.

[Txpharmguy]

On 11/5/2023 at 1:02 AM, Ruprecht88 said:

It’s not, Marcus and Round Rock do it too. I wish none of them did.

There are pros and cons with the boom mics. It certainly can enhance your sound. Likewise, it can amplify any mistakes that may occur. Other perennial GN finalists like Broken Arrow, Tarpon Springs, Avon, Willam H Mason, and Blue Springs, MO use them. 

[Ruprecht88]

2 minutes ago, Txpharmguy said:

There are pros and cons with the boom mics. It certainly can enhance your sound. Likewise, it can amplify any mistakes that may occur. Other perennial GN finalists like Broken Arrow, Tarpon Springs, Avon, Willam H Mason, and Blue Springs, MO use them. 

oh yeah, it's definitely not a magic bullet, it's a risk. 

[Hard Core Band Fan]

1 minute ago, Ruprecht88 said:

oh yeah, it's definitely not a magic bullet, it's a risk. 

And like all electronics, they don't always work. If you've built your show around using them and they aren't working and delaying your show and causing a time penalty, they can cost you. And you have to have them properly set up and utilized, which often requires outside experts coming in, and that costs money as well. For many, they are a huge pain for such a small gain. And most important, what they Amplify still has to be of good quality to help you. Louder bad woodwinds will gain you nothing.

[lost]

25 minutes ago, Hard Core Band Fan said:

And like all electronics, they don't always work. If you've built your show around using them and they aren't working and delaying your show and causing a time penalty, they can cost you. And you have to have them properly set up and utilized, which often requires outside experts coming in, and that costs money as well. For many, they are a huge pain for such a small gain. And most important, what they Amplify still has to be of good quality to help you. Louder bad woodwinds will gain you nothing.

I know one band on the competitive circuit that could afford to learn the lesson that boom mics don’t mean anything with poor technique, but alas.

[cybrunette]

Posted this on HornRank & thought y'all who don't frequent there would enjoy this over here too! Here are high-cams of all finals performances!

1st half. Sorry I couldn't get Wakeland... Box5 crashed on me twice during their run

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1CJylMdOz3bS_ia3WgRnBzJ-qLgFey38b?usp=sharing

2nd half. 

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/13sFS_pYSUT2jRG4Aqau2pGzIjd6REsdz?usp=sharing

[AldoFullilove122]

3 hours ago, lost said:

I know one band on the competitive circuit that could afford to learn the lesson that boom mics don’t mean anything with poor technique, but alas.

👀

[Spirit]

5 hours ago, MilBandDude said:

Yes, but question was about traditional Color Guard which Vandegrift does not use. Are more bands going to abandon Color Guard in favor of more Dance centric programs now that Vandegrift has showed so much success using it?

Schools will ultimately choose what’s right for them. Kudos to Vandy for going out on a limb and trying something different and blazing a new path! Admittedly though, I’m more of a traditionalist, and would hate to see schools abandoning Colorguard on the whole. I love the overall immediate visual effect and impact that colorguard conveys and adds to the show. If marching bands decide to move more towards an exclusive dance team I will definitely still enjoy it, as I love watching dance. I would just be very sad to see the Colorguard go. It is close to my heart, as my daughter was in guard. It was an activity she could do that if she hadn’t been training a good part of her life for, she could still pick up, learn, and be a creative part of something great.  
Perhaps there could be some sort of hybrid where both are included. I think that would be fantastic!

[MilBandDude]

5 hours ago, seafoodbuffet said:

There was a joke after Vandy won grand nats in 2019 that it was time for programs to get with the times and drop their guard. I think that kind of thinking stems from a flawed assumption that a dance group is somehow “easier”. It very much is not and I don’t think groups with elite colorguard programs would be able easily convert their members to a dance company any more easily than a group like Vandy could start adding rifle/sabre tosses to their program. It takes years of training starting from a young age to develop the body control, fluidity of movement, and strength/flexibility to achieve that movement. Coupled with having to be in sync with dozens of members, it’s hard stuff to pull off. 

If not having a guard were easier, don’t you think a lot more groups would be doing it? It’s all about program philosophy and approach and I’m glad more than one formula can work well.

Personally I think it’s a good thing that most sheets don’t require specific equipment. It allows for much greater diversity of show styles and that’s a win for marching band in general.

I do not think it is easier by any means, but if a program is winning consistently, whether it be marching band, sports or the business world, you have to look at what they do and consider adjusting your program if they have something that makes sense. I mean inclusion of props was controversial back when it started. Like it or not I think Dance Programs make sense in today's UIL and BOA judging. While Dance is not easier I do think they are cleaner and safer to produce. If you are not throwing rifles or sabres or some other prop then you cannot drop said prop or have some other unforeseen event occur. Dance is so much more fluid, graceful and dynamic. When I look at Vandegrift's Dancers I can't tell if they are in the right place doing the right thing at the right time or not. All I know is they look really really good no matter what they are doing.

As far as moving to Dance Programs. There are already veteran Dancers in every school that attend outside programs since an early age. All you would need to do is take the time to recruit them into band. Of course it would also take buy in from the school district. It would not be something that would have to happen in one season, but it could be integrated into the program over time. Even then you could still have a hybrid Dance Color Guard Program if desired which is what I think makes sense. Everything these kids do in high school band is hard and I am sure they would figure it out just like everything else they have to do every year.

I think every 10 to 15 years a program comes along with a new idea that works and people say its a fad or flash in the pan or a joke, but those are the people that get left behind.

[VistaGuardDad]

6 hours ago, seafoodbuffet said:

There was a joke after Vandy won grand nats in 2019 that it was time for programs to get with the times and drop their guard. I think that kind of thinking stems from a flawed assumption that a dance group is somehow “easier”. It very much is not and I don’t think groups with elite colorguard programs would be able easily convert their members to a dance company any more easily than a group like Vandy could start adding rifle/sabre tosses to their program. It takes years of training starting from a young age to develop the body control, fluidity of movement, and strength/flexibility to achieve that movement. Coupled with having to be in sync with dozens of members, it’s hard stuff to pull off. 

If not having a guard were easier, don’t you think a lot more groups would be doing it? It’s all about program philosophy and approach and I’m glad more than one formula can work well.

Personally I think it’s a good thing that most sheets don’t require specific equipment. It allows for much greater diversity of show styles and that’s a win for marching band in general.

I think easier is maybe not the right term. I think there are fewer variables outside of your control (wind, lights, how a dropped weapon bounces, etc) with dance vs guard. To add to that my wife (a ballerina into her 20s, high school dance team, dance instructor, and color guard mom/board member) said she absolutely agreed that dance as a whole is not easier. However, she felt the routine Vandy was using could be picked up fairly easily by the Woodlands guard, but the Vandy dance team would have a rough time picking up the Woodland's guard performance. That's pretty much the best two bands at their particular craft so it may well not be the same between Vandy and Vista for example.

One interesting note, my daughter regularly interacts with the Vandy dance team members and they always want to play with her weapons and have stated that they would like the opportunity to use weapons.

Again, not trying to knock anyone or their performance. I literally turned to my wife and the Vandy parents next to us after the Woodlands was announced and told them Vandy was going to win with a record new high score. They are amazing and deserved their win.

Edited November 6, 2023 by VistaGuardDad
Make it less aggressive sounding

[seafoodbuffet]

1 hour ago, Spirit said:

Perhaps there could be some sort of hybrid where both are included. I think that would be fantastic!

I think you’ve just described the auxiliary at Reagan. They’ve definitely demonstrated how impactful such a combination can be. It just requires more people, a broader training base, etc.

[VistaGuardDad]

35 minutes ago, seafoodbuffet said:

I think you’ve just described the auxiliary at Reagan. They’ve definitely demonstrated how impactful such a combination can be. It just requires more people, a broader training base, etc.

That was exactly my thought. I like what they are doing a lot.

[Dallas Hobbs]

4 hours ago, cybrunette said:

Posted this on HornRank & thought y'all who don't frequent there would enjoy this over here too! Here are high-cams of all finals performances!

1st half. Sorry I couldn't get Wakeland... Box5 crashed on me twice during their run

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1CJylMdOz3bS_ia3WgRnBzJ-qLgFey38b?usp=sharing

2nd half. 

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/13sFS_pYSUT2jRG4Aqau2pGzIjd6REsdz?usp=sharing

Omg thank you so much! I was just about to ask did anyone have a recording of bell’s show lol

[Hard Core Band Fan]

7 hours ago, lost said:

I know one band on the competitive circuit that could afford to learn the lesson that boom mics don’t mean anything with poor technique, but alas.

Just one?

[MarchingFan1]

9 hours ago, seafoodbuffet said:

There was a joke after Vandy won grand nats in 2019 that it was time for programs to get with the times and drop their guard. I think that kind of thinking stems from a flawed assumption that a dance group is somehow “easier”. It very much is not and I don’t think groups with elite colorguard programs would be able easily convert their members to a dance company any more easily than a group like Vandy could start adding rifle/sabre tosses to their program. It takes years of training starting from a young age to develop the body control, fluidity of movement, and strength/flexibility to achieve that movement. Coupled with having to be in sync with dozens of members, it’s hard stuff to pull off. 

If not having a guard were easier, don’t you think a lot more groups would be doing it? It’s all about program philosophy and approach and I’m glad more than one formula can work well.

Personally I think it’s a good thing that most sheets don’t require specific equipment. It allows for much greater diversity of show styles and that’s a win for marching band in general.

Totally agree it allows for diversity in design and also gives more opportunity to perform at that level to more students.   Reagan has been incorporating dancers in their visual ensemble for at least 7 years if not more, along with their Guard. I don’t think dancers handle any equipment other than flags but I did not even know they were dancers until someone told me.  I do think rifles,  sabers etc add an element of risk and it’s satisfying when they hit in time to the music but that’s just me.

[DoctorD]

Timber Creek placing 16th with an 8:15am performance?? Wow they really were awake and ready!

[BlastFromThePast]

Here's a visualization of the finals scoresheet (data taken from finals recap PDF posted by BOA). I'll post one after Indy GN finals too.

[Musicguy23]

On 11/5/2023 at 11:49 AM, VistaGuardDad said:

I would love that! I posted on another thread, but it always seems like the shows I find the most fun/entertaining get punished by the judges. Think ROUS (Rodents of unusual Size) from last year and CTJ from this year. Both are super fun and obvious audience favorites that the judges didn't seem to think were as good as some of the less university style shows.

Yea I’m sure some of the judges are pretty traditional when it comes to that kind of thing. I’d love to see credit for creativity. Marching band is always evolving so why not the scoring as well?