Hard Core Band Fan Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Okay, thanks to Jackson1, I now have the Area B 6A prelims and finals score sheets. 2014 Area B 6A Finals Results.pdf 2014 Area B 6A Prelims Results.pdf TXMarchingMadness87654 and NTXBandFan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXMarchingMadness87654 Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Okay, thanks to Jackson1, I now have the Area B 6A prelims and finals score sheets. Yay! Thanks to Jackson1 and to you for getting these posted! It's always interesting to me to look them over. Now, I can go to sleep happy. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bxOxAxUIL Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Are the 4A Area B results somewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snares Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Wow judge 2 had Plano east over Hebron in music. Can't say I saw that coming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTXBandFan Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 What I find interesting is how much space judge 1 put between Marcus and the next band (Bell) in prelims They scored them with a 920, and Bell had a 613. In the finals Judge 4 did something similar. They scored Marcus with a 918, and their 2nd place band Hebron had a 751. All the other judges had the bands closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hard Core Band Fan Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Nothing surprises me anymore on the scoring at UIL Area & State competitions. The variance of scoring between the judges is sometimes insane. Seeing the placement for one band ranging from 1st to the upper teens and twenties is all too common. The only way to counter-act this is to perform really, really well. Of course, sometimes that just isn't enough as that one guy is way off from the other four. Here's the 6A results sorted by judge: 2014 Area B Finals Analysis.pdf 2014 Area B Prelims Analysis.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson1 Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Wow that is interesting that in finals j4 thought all bands were 170 pts lower then Marcus and j5 thought all bands were 20 pts lower at least. I do not understand uil scoring but that is interesting. Not sure what it means but interesting none the less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hard Core Band Fan Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 To me, 1,000 points is just too big of a range to manage. Imagine how hard it must be after listening to 20 or 30 bands and then trying to remember if you gave some band a 780 or a 770 and wanting to give the current band a score just above what you gave that band. Maybe you're 30 or more points off and you actually score them lower. I'm sure every judge has their own system that works and makes sense to them. I have been told by judges that I know that it does get difficult to maintain whatever standard you've set at the beginning of the day, throughout the day. It's got to be very difficult. As you notice, some guys only use around a 100-300 point range, which I would think would be easier to manage. I guess that's one valid argument for the BOA 100-point system. That and being a modern scoring system for modern-style bands... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nalyd8991 Posted November 1, 2014 Report Share Posted November 1, 2014 That scoring is thoroughly messed up. I almost want to see a comparative line graph of the prelims scores. Judge one dropped off so fast. I wonder if the results would be more normal if they dropped the highest and lowest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTApex Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 "I wonder if the results would be more normal if they dropped the highest and lowest?" With 3 Music Judges and 2 Marching Judges, how exactly would that work? Drop the high and low music scores and the high and low marching scores? Drop the and low scores regardless of category (leaving you with the potential for some bands to be scored only on their music)? No, dropping scores does not work unless you dramatically expand the number of judges (to something like 7 music and 5 marching). So long as judging is subjective (and how can it not be), you are going to have "weird" results from time to time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 You can drop the "odd-judge-out" from each caption with just 7 judges total and keep the same Music/Marching total ratio. You would do this with 4 Music and 3 Marching judges. For each band and for each caption, you would drop the one judge that was the most different from the other judges in that caption. So, if a band had, say 1 2 5 in Marching, you would drop the 5. If they had 1 4 5 in Marching, you'd drop the 1. And the obvious example of something like 1 1 12, you'd drop the 12. I've written about this method before: http://www.txbands.com/forums/index.php?/topic/3286-judges/?p=69683 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson1 Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 First off I think the judges are amazing and am not bashing them in any way. But I do agree there is a problem. I understand judges will never completely agree in placements/scores. This year in both BOA and UIL there seemed to be one judge that completely disagreed with the other two. Not just slightly but "not in the same ballpark" disagree. I can understand if a judge is 5-10 different but more then that doesn't make sense. I assume the 1,1,12 reference was Hebron's music scores. How do two judges feel Hebron had the best musical performance and the other one think there were 11 bands better? And again I can understand 1,1,5 or 1,1,8 or even 1,1,10 but it gets to a point of ridiculous, 1,1,12. CTJ 28th in visual? How is that possible? I could not judge if you held a gun to my head but something needs to change when one judge can tank a schools efforts. There needs to be some kind of check and balance for these competitions. I don't have the solution so I may be part of the problem but there is a serious issue. Once again I think the judges are amazing and do a great job. There just needs to be some criteria for mor consistent scoring. Congrats to all bands, finalists and medal winners. My opinions have nothing to do with placements. All were well deserved!!! What a year for Texas bands!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hard Core Band Fan Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 I think with UIL, part of the problem is with the scoring system. With a 1,000 point range, it's just too vast of a point spread for most people to manage. Some of the judges seem to reduce it to 100-150 points (e.g. scoring from 850-999) just to make it a little easier to be consistent. But I can't think of any method that will remedy one judge or even two judges liking completely different bands than the other 3 or 4. Also, I don't think that the current UIL scoring system will change any time soon, due to the fact that so few directors actually want it changed. Think about it -- 90+% of the bands in Texas are not affected by it and they aren't even contenders for Area or State. Of the bands that are in contention for competition at this level, it's usually only a couple that seemingly get a bad break. The others that are in contention for advancement or in the finals are just glad to be there OR the system worked just fine for them. So we're really only talking about a few bands each year that are upset about it and all the others are likely not too upset that it happened to those few that are still doing comparatively well. Life is not fair... UIL Area and State are consistent proof of that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson1 Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 I do not disagree with anything you said. But that 28 could have knocked Johnson out of finals. It didn't but could have. You are right life is not fair but....one judges opinion having the ability to do that isn't right either. I am not a Johnson homer but if they didn't make finals because of one judge they couldn't have medaled in finals and that would have been wrong. Regardless of who it affects it needs to be fixed or adjusted. Signed, No solution.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hard Core Band Fan Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 Well, here's the thing for me -- I don't want to see anyone get a raw deal whether it's a band I like or not. Something does need to be done about it and I'm only stating that it probably will not happen as it is a tradition in Texas to have these asinine results and that not enough people are upset about it to push for change. I personally believe that in a state where so much effort is made to achieve excellence in the marching/playing arts that the UIL should make an equal or better effort to ensure that competitions are more fair than they are. There is more than enough knowledge and talent out there to improve on what we have now. I don't believe that anyone should just be happy that they made it as far as they did or be happy that they almost got the ranking they deserved. Credit where credit is due! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson1 Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 Once again I disagree with nothing. Well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nalyd8991 Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 I think the easiest way to fix the judging would be to reverse the procedure they have now. Drop the highest and lowest scores (or even just the lowest) scores to get the results. Bring them back in if you need to break a tie. Every scoring issue I've seen this year centered around one score from one judge that was way off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitewing09 Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 Would it be weird to have three marching judges then to add the median music and marching scores? If you still believe that music should be weighted more than marching, just assign weights and add the weighted values? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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