LD Bell March and Play?

[treblemaker]

Medals total

 

Hmm.. Well then they did a good job skewing the statistics is their favor. :] I would know. I took statistics.

[mbui]

March and play, march and play. This entire topic is just silly. People harped in the early 2000's that L.D. Bell wasn't visual enough. Fast forward to now and people now complain that they don't march and play enough. Some of you...you just can't please, huh? L.D. Bell has the ability to march. L.D. Bell has the ability to play. If judges really had a problem with it, don't you think they would be slamming the band at contests about it? I think what they've doing the past four years is just fine. For me, L.D. Bell brings out emotion in people like no one else. Whether they march enough or play enough....I could care less. As long as they are remembered and bring out the emotion in me, that is all that matters.

[Danpod]

March and play, march and play. This entire topic is just silly. People harped in the early 2000's that L.D. Bell wasn't visual enough. Fast forward to now and people now complain that they don't march enough. Some of you...you just can't please, huh? L.D. Bell has the ability to march. L.D. Bell has the ability to play. If judges really had a problem with it, don't you think they would be slamming the band at contests about it? I think what they've doing the past four years is just fine. For me, L.D. Bell brings out emotion in people like no one else. Whether they march enough or play enough....I could care less. As long as they are remembered and bring out the emotion in me, that is all that matters.

 

Thank you, Mike. The amount of crap that Bell took earlier in the decade for not having enough "effect" in their show to compete at the National level was laughable. Now, people complain when they do have effect in their show. Whether you think the whole march and play thing is a huge deal or not, the fact remains that the band has been one of the few programs in the State to successfully "evolve" in order to compete at UIL and BOA events.

[treblemaker]

Thank you, Mike. The amount of crap that Bell took earlier in the decade for not having enough "effect" in their show to compete at the National level was laughable. Now, people complain when they do have effect in their show. Whether you think the whole march and play thing is a huge deal or not, the fact remains that the band has been one of the few programs in the State to successfully "evolve" in order to compete at UIL and BOA events.

 

Then maybe the argument shouldn't be about Bell but rather what marching band is turning into?

[Danpod]

Then maybe the argument shouldn't be about Bell but rather what marching band is turning into?

 

Good point. I'm in agreement with Mike's point about the emotional aspect of the show. Some shows make us laugh. Some shows make us cry (For me, Lake Park 2000 did it). I can appreciate programs that march and play well. I'll always cheer for those. However, I've also learned to enjoy shows that tell a story or have some sort of message to convey to the audience. As far as effect goes, there is a HUGE misconception about how to accomplish it.

 

"If you have money, that means you can build big props, which means that you'll get high scores no matter how bad you march and play." Wrong. To me, effect is created when what I see lines up with what I hear. The field can be a blank canvas, for all I care. If you paint the field with your visual and musical effects, that is something that I will stand up and cheer for each and every time.

[bluebellbrass07]

March and play, march and play. This entire topic is just silly. People harped in the early 2000's that L.D. Bell wasn't visual enough. Fast forward to now and people now complain that they don't march and play enough. Some of you...you just can't please, huh? L.D. Bell has the ability to march. L.D. Bell has the ability to play. If judges really had a problem with it, don't you think they would be slamming the band at contests about it? I think what they've doing the past four years is just fine. For me, L.D. Bell brings out emotion in people like no one else. Whether they march enough or play enough....I could care less. As long as they are remembered and bring out the emotion in me, that is all that matters.

 

Mike you rock

[treblemaker]

Mike you rock

 

No Zach.. You rock..

[Xenon]

All this, and I think that a Military band done perfectly can be an absolute emotional rush.

[BassoonPadwan]

March and play, march and play. This entire topic is just silly. People harped in the early 2000's that L.D. Bell wasn't visual enough. Fast forward to now and people now complain that they don't march and play enough. Some of you...you just can't please, huh? L.D. Bell has the ability to march. L.D. Bell has the ability to play. If judges really had a problem with it, don't you think they would be slamming the band at contests about it? I think what they've doing the past four years is just fine. For me, L.D. Bell brings out emotion in people like no one else. Whether they march enough or play enough....I could care less. As long as they are remembered and bring out the emotion in me, that is all that matters.

 

Despite the title..... I think this topic has become less about slamming Bell than it is about finding out how much certain bands march and play at the same time. Which is straight up interesting. It's just cool to look at the numbers.

 

Not because marching and playing at the same time is what is need to make a good show that brings out your emotion, but because marching and playing at the same time does take more mental energy and is more taxing(of course there are tons of factors like music difficulty drill difficulty blah blah blah).

[conan]

I think it's just a problem that arises from creating a performance and judging it. Like, if each band had the exact same show to perform, the bands' abilities would be judged with much less dispute but you can bet there would be someone complaining about how there is little/no creativity or originality involved and how marching band contests are boring. Likewise, creating different shows for each band makes it more difficult to judge skill definitively, but marching contests are more interesting and the bands are allowed to, I guess you could say, express themselves. Not every person will be satisfied no matter what the system is.

 

A situation that comes to my mind is Avon vs Bell last year at GN Finals. Watching Avon's show, they march and play at least 4:30-5 minutes (I didn't write exact times down) of about an 8:45 second show compared to LD Bell's 3:26 for an 8:33 total time. (It was in fact easier to remember the times Avon was not marching and playing than when they were.) LD Bell beat Avon in music 18.95-18.25 and Avon beat Bell in visual 19.35-18.85.

[takigan]

Where are you getting these "total times"? L.D. Bell's show was the longest show at Grand Nationals (their show content from downbeat to the end of the show added up to a little over 11 minutes, and their on-field/off-field time went over the time limit). Avon's show content from initial downbeat to the end only added up to 8:50.

[guardgirl1]

i did it on our band over this year and approximently 4:50 seconds of our show is spent marching and playing by at least three sections. our show is 8 minutes long. just thought id put that out there. i thought that was normal for bands...but evedently not.

[TXBandNerd07]

Here's what I've got so far:

 

LD Bell - Transcendents

Preshow

0:17 - 0:43 = 0:26

Real show

2:03 - 2:27 = 0:24

3:23 - 4:06 = 0:43

4:22 - 5:06 = 0:44

5:15 - 5:55 = 0:40

7:36 - 7:52 = 0:16

8:20 - 8:33 = 0:13

Total Play and March Time = 3:00

Total + Preshow = 3:26

 

LD Bell - The Remaining

1:51 - 2:13 = 0:22

2:27 - 2:45 = 0:18

2:52 - 2:57 = 0:05

3:13 - 3:19 = 0:06

3:38 - 3:49 = 0:11

3:54 - 4:08 = 0:14

6:18 - 6:23 = 0:05

7:44 - 7:48 = 0:04

7:52 - 7:58 = 0:06

8:06 - 8:54 = 0:48

9:09 - 9:30 = 0:21

Total Play and March Time = 2:40

 

Cedar Park - On Edge

1:00 - 1:19 = 0:19

1:53 - 2:20 = 0:27

2:49 - 3:11 = 0:22

3:15 - 3:31 = 0:16

3:50 - 3:59 = 0:09

4:05 - 4:15 = 0:10

4:23 - 4:31 = 0:08

4:39 - 4:46 = 0:07

4:53 - 5:15 = 0:22

5:36 - 5:50 = 0:14

5:56 - 6:27 = 0:31

6:43 - 6:50 = 0:07

6:56 - 7:21 = 0:25

7:24 - 7:40 = 0:16

7:42 - 8:16 = 0:34

Total Play and March Time = 4:27

 

Duncanville - The Journey

0:41 - 0:49 = 0:08

1:02 - 1:22 = 0:20

1:40 - 2:00 = 0:20

2:06 - 2:09 = 0:03

2:13 - 2:28 = 0:15

2:32 - 2:37 = 0:05

2:38 - 2:44 = 0:06

3:21 - 3:31 = 0:10

3:36 - 3:51 = 0:15

3:55 - 4:13 = 0:18

4:26 - 4:32 = 0:06

5:54 - 6:03 = 0:09

6:13 - 6:30 = 0:17

6:33 - 6:58 = 0:15

7:04 - 7:18 = 0:14

7:23 - 7:38 = 0:15

Total Play and March Time = 3:16

 

Avon - Massive (back on september 27th)

1:23 - 1:28 = 0:05

1:36 - 1:57 = 0:21

2:02 - 2:29 = 0:27

2:32 - 2:48 = 0:16

2:59 - 3:15 = 0:16

3:18 - 3:26 = 0:08

4:19 - 4:44 = 0:25

4:59 - 5:18 = 0:19

5:35 - 5:43 = 0:08

6:07 - 6:20 = 0:13

6:30 - 6:55 = 0:25

6:58 - 7:20 = 0:22

7:58 - 8:18 = 0:20

8:21 - 8:30 = 0:09

Total Play and March Time = 3:54

 

 

omg... thats insane!? lol...thats way too many numbers to process.

[TXBandNerd07]

Someone has way too much time on their hands.

 

They don't march and play at the same time because the staff knows that it makes you angry so they deliberately design the show that way.

 

 

lol.. nice..

[TXBandNerd07]

March and play, march and play. This entire topic is just silly. People harped in the early 2000's that L.D. Bell wasn't visual enough. Fast forward to now and people now complain that they don't march and play enough. Some of you...you just can't please, huh? L.D. Bell has the ability to march. L.D. Bell has the ability to play. If judges really had a problem with it, don't you think they would be slamming the band at contests about it? I think what they've doing the past four years is just fine. For me, L.D. Bell brings out emotion in people like no one else. Whether they march enough or play enough....I could care less. As long as they are remembered and bring out the emotion in me, that is all that matters.

 

 

nicely put. couldnt have said it better myself.

[Trumpet of Doom]

Why would you even care how time a band marches and plays at the same timelol jeez

 

Because it's called marching band for a reason.

[bluebellbrass07]

Because it's called marching band for a reason.

 

If you're going to argue a point bring something to back it up with at least!

[Trumpet of Doom]

If you're going to argue a point bring something to back it up with at least!

 

Okay...well, to me. Marching band entitles a band to show their skills in both marching and playing, or simultaneously. Yes impact sets and emotional moments may require the band to halt and play. But, the point of marching band is that the physical motion has been added in order to emphasize a new challenge of sounding absolutely amazing while also looking good. Just my two cents.

[bluebellbrass07]

Okay...well, to me. Marching band entitles a band to show their skills in both marching and playing, or simultaneously. Yes impact sets and emotional moments may require the band to halt and play. But, the point of marching band is that the physical motion has been added in order to emphasize a new challenge of sounding absolutely amazing while also looking good. Just my two cents.

 

The point of all music in my opinion is to make an emotional connection with the listener, regardless of difficulty. Suppose thats just my opinion though

[drippin_tuba2010]

The point of all music in my opinion is to make an emotional connection with the listener, regardless of difficulty. Suppose thats just my opinion though

 

of course that's the point of music. music exists to elicit an emotional response from the listener, be it anger, sadness, happiness, or just release. but this topic isn't just about music, it's about marching band. to me, marching band is just that. marching. band. marching-run around a football field with some form of style in a uniform to look snappy. band-brass, woodwind, and persussion combined to make music. you put the two together you get brass, woodwind, and percussion running around a field with some form of style in a uniform to make them look snappy.

 

now lets try some real definitions from mirriamwebster.com march- to move along steadily usually with a rhythmic stride and in step with others. band- a group of musicians organized for ensemble playing. nothing about marching band on that website.

 

in my opinion, drum corps is the epitome of marching band. how often do you see those guys only marching and playing for 2-3 minutes of a show? drum corps usually have balanced their shows between a few perc. moments, a few brass moments, and the whole corps marching and playing most of the time. why then, should high school bands not be able to do this? is it that drum corps are just that far above the high school bands? i don't think so. my band marches and plays just about the entire time we're on the field, and we are usually pretty successful at our competitions.

 

so why is it that directors create shows with so little playing while moving? i don't have an answer to this question, but i don't think its unreasonable to think that more and more bands should be trying to bump up their total music+motion time in a show. texas bands have 8 minutes to create something beautiful on the field. LD Bell succeeded with "The Quest", definitely one of my all time favorites. but i think that Bell and others aren't recognizing their full potential, and creating shows where the capabilities of students aren't pushed to the limit. why create a show which is fun to watch and easy to perform when you can create one that presents challenges to students and could be the most amazing thing ever to set foot on a football field?

[takigan]

The point of all music in my opinion is to make an emotional connection with the listener, regardless of difficulty. Suppose thats just my opinion though

 

"I suppose that's just my opinion though". I'm assuming you were trying to be sarcastic? If that's true I just want to point out that it is just your opinion. Not to jump all over you or anything. I used to think the same thing...that the whole purpose of music is to create something for the listener. Well, what's the point of etudes then? They're music, but they're designed as training pieces for musical development and they were never meant to be performed (in fact they're hardly ever performed in the context of what one might consider a "performance"). Some etudes are indeed music that instill aesthetic appreciation in their listeners, but they were never intended for that purpose. There are some profound pieces of music out there that weren't designed to connect with audiences at all (and are horrible to listen to) but you can't deny the genius of the composer who composed it and the growth he/she experienced in creating it. So what is the purpose of that music? There are some kinds of music that don't meet your definition, thus the term "all" music doesn't really apply.

 

I think there's a problem when High School Music programs water down the difficulty of their shows to create something more musical or something more entertaining....for difficulty creates growth. And the point of Music Education is to educate and make students experience as much growth as possible. There are some kinds of music that are meant to instill emotion and some kinds of music that were created in order to train one's mental skills. Different forms of music represent varied purposes as music as a whole has many purposes.

[chkelley11]

"I suppose that's just my opinion though". I'm assuming you were trying to be sarcastic? If that's true I just want to point out that it is just your opinion. Not to jump all over you or anything. I used to think the same thing...that the whole purpose of music is to create something for the listener. Well, what's the point of etudes then? They're music, but they're designed as training pieces for musical development and they were never meant to be performed (in fact they're hardly ever performed in the context of what one might consider a "performance"). Some etudes are indeed music that instill aesthetic appreciation in their listeners, but they were never intended for that purpose. There are some profound pieces of music out there that weren't designed to connect with audiences at all (and are horrible to listen to) but you can't deny the genius of the composer who composed it and the growth he/she experienced in creating it. So what is the purpose of that music? There are some kinds of music that don't meet your definition, thus the term "all" music doesn't really apply.

 

I think there's a problem when High School Music programs water down the difficulty of their shows to create something more musical or something more entertaining....for difficulty creates growth. And the point of Music Education is to educate and make students experience as much growth as possible. There are some kinds of music that are meant to instill emotion and some kinds of music that were created in order to train one's mental skills. Different forms of music represent varied purposes as music as a whole has many purposes.

hey what is the star thing they use as their main prop what is it

[Xenon]

"I suppose that's just my opinion though". I'm assuming you were trying to be sarcastic? If that's true I just want to point out that it is just your opinion. Not to jump all over you or anything. I used to think the same thing...that the whole purpose of music is to create something for the listener. Well, what's the point of etudes then? They're music, but they're designed as training pieces for musical development and they were never meant to be performed (in fact they're hardly ever performed in the context of what one might consider a "performance"). Some etudes are indeed music that instill aesthetic appreciation in their listeners, but they were never intended for that purpose. There are some profound pieces of music out there that weren't designed to connect with audiences at all (and are horrible to listen to) but you can't deny the genius of the composer who composed it and the growth he/she experienced in creating it. So what is the purpose of that music? There are some kinds of music that don't meet your definition, thus the term "all" music doesn't really apply.

 

I think there's a problem when High School Music programs water down the difficulty of their shows to create something more musical or something more entertaining....for difficulty creates growth. And the point of Music Education is to educate and make students experience as much growth as possible. There are some kinds of music that are meant to instill emotion and some kinds of music that were created in order to train one's mental skills. Different forms of music represent varied purposes as music as a whole has many purposes.

Exactly! It shouldn't be all about winning competitions, it should be growing yourself in the most efficient way possible. If that growth pushes you to win a competition, all the better.

 

Sometimes where a band needs to grow is in the area of perfection and watering things down will allow the band to focus on that. But also sometimes a band needs to be pushed with difficulty in order to stretch their players to achieve new heights.

[bluebellbrass07]

Exactly! It shouldn't be all about winning competitions, it should be growing yourself in the most efficient way possible. If that growth pushes you to win a competition, all the better.

 

Now we are arguing about two different things, the journey and the end result. I agree with you on this point completely.

 

As far as the shows themselves, what difference does it make weather they "march and play" the entire time, if its entertaining its entertaining...

 

[Skippy]

I fully agree with Brandon, Dan, and Zach on this.

 

but i think that Bell and others aren't recognizing their full potential, and creating shows where the capabilities of students aren't pushed to the limit.

 

I don't think you understand how hard the shows are that they do.