DCI Rule Proposals

[titancoaster]

Ordinals decide placement at contests:

 

 

This is quite an interesting proposal from the Cavaliers

[Claritone]

Boooooooooo

[Skippy]

First off, this is a proposition, it isn't a rule yet.

 

And secondly, it's not as simple as you think. It won't be the same as UIL, because there will still be just as many judges, judging the same way they always have. UIL has 3.

 

There are very valid points in there, about how abnormally high numbers in one caption can cause one corps to place over another.

 

 

In UIL, a music judge is expected to judge ensemble music, individual music, and percussion. The Visual judge is expected to judge both ensemble visual and individual marching technique. All 3 sit up top in the box. In my opinion with increased responibilites placed on the judges, the margin of error and discrepency between judges increases as well. And how judges in a box are supposed to evaluate individuals is beyond me.

 

While yes, the proposed rule suggests a change to an Ordinal system like UIL, this new system is exactly how I envisioned an upgraded UIL. The judges, all having one specific caption to cover, will be more accurate than say an overall "Music" judge.

 

 

I'm very interested to see how this turns out. I definetly think that it would be worth a try, as we try to find the perfect judging system.

[manuel_pablo]

Yeah, it isn't a rule yet. Here are the rest of the proposals:

 

1 - Extension of warm-up time

WARM-UPS may begin any time after the 2:00 entrance time, and continue, or not, up to the beginning of the production. There is no time changes

[LdTrumpetWailer]

it's not very surprising that Jeff started the proposition for a new judging system like this cause It has true focus on ensemble form and power. The Cavs have been "The Ensemble group since 2000" so I'm not surprised. He is just trying to make it easier for the cavs this since it might be an off year basised on previous data on others dynasties who had a huge season ending. Almost like 1995 and then 1996 for them. A really tremendous finish and to beat 95' Scouts...WOW! but then 96' not so much still great but not up to the caliber of Jupiter and the planets. I'm just saying he only made this to further DCI and a little extra for his team.

[mbui]

My $.02.....

 

1. Extension of warm-up: Yes.

2. Raise membership from 135 to 150: Yes.

3. Props people not included in corps membership limit: No.

4. Inclusion of electronic instruments: Undecided.

5. Postioning of Visual Performance Judge: No.

6. Ordinals decided placement at contests: No.

7. Overall Effect judges: No.

8. Percussion adjudication: No.

 

Two rule proposals that I really do not want to see passed are the ordinals deciding the placement at competitions and the Overall Effect judges replacing the General Effect Music & Visual judges. Not a fan of the ordinal system. UIL, anyone? No need to go further. As for OE & GE, I like the way the current General Effect caption is broken up. You have a judge with an emphasis on visual design judging Visual General Effect and a judge with an emphasis on music judging Music General Effect. I don't think I would feel comfortable with a visual judge giving commentary on music and vice versa.

 

In my opinion, I like the DCI judging system the way it is. I view it as a model for the marching arts. I believe marching shows should be scored 40/30/30 with General Effect weighing 40% of the total score and Music/Visual Performance weighing 30% each. I hope nothing drastic happens.

[bluebellbrass07]

QUOTE (LdTrumpetWailer @ Jan 11 2007, 12:32 AM)

it's not very surprising that Jeff started the proposition for a new judging system like this cause It has true focus on ensemble form and power. The Cavs have been "The Ensemble group since 2000" so I'm not surprised. He is just trying to make it easier for the cavs this since it might be an off year basised on previous data on others dynasties who had a huge season ending. Almost like 1995 and then 1996 for them. A really tremendous finish and to beat 95' Scouts...WOW! but then 96' not so much still great but not up to the caliber of Jupiter and the planets. I'm just saying he only made this to further DCI and a little extra for his team.

Actuallyyyyyy....

 

It seems kind of odd he would propose this. If you apply the system to 06 then Phantom would of won.

 

Crazy

[euphtone06]

A really tremendous finish and to beat 95' Scouts...

 

1995:

1 98.300 The Cavaliers "The Planets"

2 97.200 The Cadets "An American Quintet"

3 96.700 Blue Devils "Carpe Noctem"

4 95.400 Madison Scouts "A Drum Corps Fan's Dream"

 

Scouts werent even close to beating the Cavaliers in '95 it was just a fan favorite show.

[LdTrumpetWailer]

1995:

1 98.300 The Cavaliers "The Planets"

2 97.200 The Cadets "An American Quintet"

[Moose]

1. Extension of warm-up: Yes. Allows for more creativity, and less down time at shows. More entertainment.

2. Raise membership from 135 to 150: No. There are too many division 1 corps that can't even get 135 people. This rule only benefits the upper echelon.

3. Props people not included in corps membership limit: No. Learn how to do props with the members you have. Its been done well before. Figure it out.

4. Inclusion of electronic instruments: Yes. Its 2007, music is in the digital age. In order to appeal to a younger fan base, this needs to (and will someday soon) happen.

5. Postioning of Visual Performance Judge: No. Ehh... I can seen this being used as a crutch as corps start to keep weaker marchers away from the judge. Keep em on the field.

6. Ordinals decided placement at contests: No. heck No. Yuck.

7. Overall Effect judges: No. Its working.

8. Percussion adjudication: Yes. Too many early season percussion tapes are silent, because the judge doesn't know the program, and spends time chasing the percussion. Once the judge becomes more familiar, tapes will be more helpful, and judging more accurate.

[bluebellbrass07]

QUOTE (LdTrumpetWailer @ Jan 11 2007, 05:12 PM)

Ok I understand your point but when you watch both shows I get the feeling more from Madison and a just alittle less from Cavs. So scores are not always what they seem. You place way too much emphasis on score and not drum corpism if taht could ever make sense. All I know is that show was an incredible and extremely well performed show even against the judge scores.

I suppose it was clean for having 7 tenors...

 

[TX Suh-nare]

My turn!

 

Longer warmups...sure. Bones just might get to pull off "Texas, Our Texas" in SA. (wouldn't that be awesome?)

 

Raise membership...please! I might stop getting cut from corps!

 

Props not included in membership...No. Cadets and Boston will be the only ones benefiting from this. Tough noogies, YEA! and BC!

 

Electronic instruments...no. Not just becuse I hate this idea, they also have bad reasoning. "What if we want church bell sounds?" I'm sorry, isn't that wht BAR CHIMES are for?

 

Position of Visual judge...either way. Don't know if right there is good, but it's one less judge to hit...(darn)

 

Ordinals deciding placement...what?

 

GE judging...don't care.

 

Percussion judging...undecided. Safety over better sound judgement...we'll see.

[bluebellbrass07]

QUOTE (TX Suh-nare @ Jan 11 2007, 09:08 PM)

Raise membership...please! I might stop getting cut from corps!

Ha!

 

You could just practice a lot

[LdTrumpetWailer]

good one Zach! I think the membership should stay. y you ask. Well I'll tell you. Too many corps are going to get cut from Div. 1 b/c of low membership due to not enough kids and we all know that Div. 1 is our fav. so don't make Div. 1 an 12-16 total group of corps. I say that only b/c people forget that this stuff costs money and a lot of it to boot. So not everyone wants to blow 1500 to 2200 for a two month long bus trip that can leave you with too many awesome memories to remember. Some people just don't find that cool. So that's my point.

[Skippy]

You have a judge with an emphasis on visual design judging Visual General Effect and a judge with an emphasis on music judging Music General Effect. I don't think I would feel comfortable with a visual judge giving commentary on music and vice versa.

Actually Mike, you'd be suprised at how much the two already crossover on the tapes we listen to over the summer. I don't know if I support the combining of them, but it wouldn't be as drastic of a change as one might think.

 

I guess one question I've wondered is: If the music effect judges aren't supposed to take into consideration anything visual, why are they watching the show? All they need to be able to do is hear it.

[Danpod]

Actually Mike, you'd be suprised at how much the two already crossover on the tapes we listen to over the summer.  I don't know if I support the combining of them, but it wouldn't be as drastic of a change as one might think.

 

I guess one question I've wondered is:  If the music effect judges aren't supposed to take into consideration anything visual, why are they watching the show?  All they need to be able to do is hear it.

Exactly! From upstairs, some judges, not all of them like it should be, will close their eyes when judging anything music so that the visual doesn't influence them.

 

I propose the Visual GE Judge wears earplugs while the Music GE Judge has his eyes gouged out. Too drastic?

[Skippy]

Too drastic?

Some would say that Hopkins has proposed more drastic things.

[MartinHorn]

Increased membership: yes

 

Longer warmups: yes

 

Electronic instruments: no

 

Props people not included in membership: eh....This may allow corps to have more elaborate props, but this may not necessarily be a good thing. undecided.

 

New Judging system: Yes. It just seems like a better system to me.

 

New GE judges: No. keep one visual and one music judge.

 

Percussion adjudication: I'm not aware what the current system is for percussion judges, but my ideal one is one in the stands/box and one on the field.

 

Position of the new visual judge: eh I don't know. It kinda seems like a good idea. Once again my ideal situation would be one on the field and one in the stands.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Xenon]

1. Extension of warm-up: Yes. Pre-shows are awesome.

 

2. Raise membership from 135 to 150: Yes. Just imagine the additional sound.

 

3. Props people not included in corps membership limit: No. If members can't deal with the props then you don't need them.

 

4. Inclusion of electronic instruments: No. No. No. No synths/EWIs.

 

5. Postioning of Visual Performance Judge: No. Take him off the field for safety reasons, but keep him on the sidelines so that he can move around.

 

6. Ordinals decided placement at contests: YES!!! Remove the power of one judge to over/under-influence the contest by using an improper spread!!! Non-familiarity with the sheets and ideals is the problem with UIL judging, not the ordinal system! Also, Phantom would have won in 2006!!!

 

7. Overall Effect judges: Yes. Effect is too tied in as an overall concept including both music and visual to keep them separate.

 

8. Percussion adjudication: I'm not knowledgeable enough in this field to decide.

[Skippy]

1. Extension of warm-up: Yes. I like pre-shows.

 

2. Raise membership from 135 to 150: No. One, this would make a little more difficult for the corps that have a hard enough filling out hornline as it is, with all the top corps getting to accept more people. Also, it wouldn't be by too much, but the quality of some of the top corps is sure to go down, as less talented people are let into the corps. Also, I think that as corps get larger, it'll be harder to have that sense of "one corps" family... maybe not, but it's a possibility.

 

3. Props people not included in corps membership limit: No. It's part of the performance, sometimes props are utilized more than just pushing them around.

 

4. Inclusion of electronic instruments: Yes. Yeah sure, I'm all for seeing new stuff.

 

5. Postioning of Visual Performance Judge: No. Leave him on the field, I can just see groups just getting clean from the front, and that isn't right.

 

6. Ordinals decided placement at contests: Yes. I talked about this earlier.

 

7. Overall Effect judges: Yes. If you've seen any Cavalier show in the past 6 years... the music and visual are nothing without each other.