UIL 4A State Marching Contest 2025 (Nov 5)

[Saxtastic45]

22 minutes ago, RaElk99 said:

I don't think constantly moving gets many points. I see bands that hardly move and almost never move and play at the same time place way higher than ones that do all the time. I think being clean carries a lot more weight. 

I think if there is a point of contention, it’s that  does NL move enough. What do you mean by moving? Are you saying marching and playing or are you including choreography?

[RaElk99]

29 minutes ago, Saxtastic45 said:

I think if there is a point of contention, it’s that  does NL move enough. What do you mean by moving? Are you saying marching and playing or are you including choreography?

I just mean marching and playing at the same time. Lots of bands seem to stand still and play while other sections march or do visual stuff and they seem to place high (at least in 4A). 

[tastiestbiscuit123]

22 hours ago, Saxtastic45 said:

There is a good livestream of NL vs PG from Friday. They don’t look like their show is complete (about 7:10 sec if my math is right) they also don’t look Ike they have all their screens and flags etc ready. Whereas I think every other band I’ve seen has everything done.

Here is what I think is going on. NLs visual package is super hard, and done at a pretty high level. I don’t know if another band looks better than them when marching and playing. Not only that but they don’t stop moving ever. I maybe saw 3 times that they stand still and it’s like 4 counts maximum each time. When you take that into account and add that they sound very balanced powerful and in tune all the time no real big flaws or timing issues it’s just on another level. They don’t beat people with flashy shiny stuff. They do it by being better at what they do. 
The game livestream is on YouTube pretty easy to find. Watch it. And PG is really good btw. NL is also a pretty poor school from what I hear and much smaller than the competition. I’ll tip my hat to them. If I am right about that and they come to area and state with a full production and it’s clean, I wouldn’t count them out top 5 easy and possible to upset some major players. 

 

On 10/11/2025 at 5:25 PM, GarbagePatchKid said:

This was from today though at Celina! I really expected it to be the full show but I don’t think it was. 
 

I also found Farmersville from today at Celina. The people around the camera are yapping through the entire performance. It’s really rude and distracting. I really like the props Farmersville has. Their show reminds me of a bug (ants maybe?) show Melissa did maybe a decade or so ago. I like it!
 

Fville at CMI

I don't think we should rule out a band just because they don't have their entire show on the field yet. Last year, both Gatesville and Burnet did not have their full shows on the field at Region, and look where they finished.

[tastiestbiscuit123]

Here's a take: Send Region 8 North back to Area D. It doesn't make sense to me why the UIL would split up Region 8. The bands down in the Waco area actually have a longer drive to get to Denton than they did to get to Pflugerville, so much so that the UIL put them all last in the draw order this year, which destroys the 'randomness' aspect of the draw order, no longer making the contest fair. Besides, Area B is SUPER competitive (to the point I'm seeing it rival Area C), and Area D is not competitive (last year was the first time 4A State Finals did not have at least one band from each Area since 2021, and it was missing Area D), so it would be fair to not only the 8 North bands, but also to the rest of Area B (since 3 out of the 5 State Qualifiers last year were from 8 North). Additionally, it wouldn't be stealing anything from the current Area D bands: out of the bottom 7 placements at State last year, 4 of them were Area D (out of the bottom 4 placements, 3 were Area D). Only Burnet and Fredericksburg 'belonged' at the contest, and concentrating the class's best bands in North/East Texas (out of the top 17 bands, 11 were from just Areas B and C, and there were only 12 from the 2 Areas out of all 27) makes it unfair to other bands that may have fared well (e.g., Canton and Krum).

I'm not trying to attack the Area D bands. Personally, La Grange's show last year was my favorite, and I couldn't stop smiling and clapping at how radiant and fun the band was in the dome, but even then, I knew they shouldn't've been there. To quote what I had said to my friend sitting with me, "They're definitely an Area Finals band, but I'm not sure about a State band."

[TmanTdog1981]

Does anyone know anything about Davenport?? I haven't heard much about them. Also, I think that the top 5 this year will consist of the same bands from the previous years, but see a little bit of a shake up in rankings. Celina will obviously be Celina, and most likely win. However, the other bands such as CS, PC, SS, and Davenport all have a good shot at a medal. China Spring and Panther Creek are gonna go head to head for Area B, and unliike last year, I think the winner of that area will medal. SS and Davenport are two bands that confuse me because I just havent heard much about them, but I know that they're both gonna be great bands.

[Gpk1968]

2 hours ago, TmanTdog1981 said:

Does anyone know anything about Davenport?? I haven't heard much about them. Also, I think that the top 5 this year will consist of the same bands from the previous years, but see a little bit of a shake up in rankings. Celina will obviously be Celina, and most likely win. However, the other bands such as CS, PC, SS, and Davenport all have a good shot at a medal. China Spring and Panther Creek are gonna go head to head for Area B, and unliike last year, I think the winner of that area will medal. SS and Davenport are two bands that confuse me because I just havent heard much about them, but I know that they're both gonna be great bands.

I’ve seen a few clips of Davenport’s show and they look sharp! I can’t speak much to them because that’s all I’ve seen. I think they are definitely in the medal fight. I also have a suspicion (and it’s nothing more than a suspicion) that they will be the band to give celina a challenge but I could be way off on that. I’ve seen sulphur’s show several times so far. They are doing well. Celina has consistently beat them at contests, but Sulphur has placed above the other area c competitors and China Spring. They have yet to face PC. I’m not the biggest fan of the SS show because I feel like someone does a show like this every year. That being said, it is well done. If you look on YouTube you can find several videos of their show. 

[Lemonpanda2328]

4 hours ago, tastiestbiscuit123 said:

Here's a take: Send Region 8 North back to Area D. It doesn't make sense to me why the UIL would split up Region 8. The bands down in the Waco area actually have a longer drive to get to Denton than they did to get to Pflugerville, so much so that the UIL put them all last in the draw order this year, which destroys the 'randomness' aspect of the draw order, no longer making the contest fair. Besides, Area B is SUPER competitive (to the point I'm seeing it rival Area C), and Area D is not competitive (last year was the first time 4A State Finals did not have at least one band from each Area since 2021, and it was missing Area D), so it would be fair to not only the 8 North bands, but also to the rest of Area B (since 3 out of the 5 State Qualifiers last year were from 8 North). Additionally, it wouldn't be stealing anything from the current Area D bands: out of the bottom 7 placements at State last year, 4 of them were Area D (out of the bottom 4 placements, 3 were Area D). Only Burnet and Fredericksburg 'belonged' at the contest, and concentrating the class's best bands in North/East Texas (out of the top 17 bands, 11 were from just Areas B and C, and there were only 12 from the 2 Areas out of all 27) makes it unfair to other bands that may have fared well (e.g., Canton and Krum).

I'm not trying to attack the Area D bands. Personally, La Grange's show last year was my favorite, and I couldn't stop smiling and clapping at how radiant and fun the band was in the dome, but even then, I knew they shouldn't've been there. To quote what I had said to my friend sitting with me, "They're definitely an Area Finals band, but I'm not sure about a State band."

I highly agree

[4Afan]

11 hours ago, tastiestbiscuit123 said:

Here's a take: Send Region 8 North back to Area D. It doesn't make sense to me why the UIL would split up Region 8. The bands down in the Waco area actually have a longer drive to get to Denton than they did to get to Pflugerville, so much so that the UIL put them all last in the draw order this year, which destroys the 'randomness' aspect of the draw order, no longer making the contest fair. Besides, Area B is SUPER competitive (to the point I'm seeing it rival Area C), and Area D is not competitive (last year was the first time 4A State Finals did not have at least one band from each Area since 2021, and it was missing Area D), so it would be fair to not only the 8 North bands, but also to the rest of Area B (since 3 out of the 5 State Qualifiers last year were from 8 North). Additionally, it wouldn't be stealing anything from the current Area D bands: out of the bottom 7 placements at State last year, 4 of them were Area D (out of the bottom 4 placements, 3 were Area D). Only Burnet and Fredericksburg 'belonged' at the contest, and concentrating the class's best bands in North/East Texas (out of the top 17 bands, 11 were from just Areas B and C, and there were only 12 from the 2 Areas out of all 27) makes it unfair to other bands that may have fared well (e.g., Canton and Krum).

I'm not trying to attack the Area D bands. Personally, La Grange's show last year was my favorite, and I couldn't stop smiling and clapping at how radiant and fun the band was in the dome, but even then, I knew they shouldn't've been there. To quote what I had said to my friend sitting with me, "They're definitely an Area Finals band, but I'm not sure about a State band."

Is it speculation that the draw order wasn’t random? Or do you have confirmation that those bands got later draws for that particular reason?

[TexasStrangers]

12 hours ago, tastiestbiscuit123 said:

Here's a take: Send Region 8 North back to Area D. It doesn't make sense to me why the UIL would split up Region 8. The bands down in the Waco area actually have a longer drive to get to Denton than they did to get to Pflugerville, so much so that the UIL put them all last in the draw order this year, which destroys the 'randomness' aspect of the draw order, no longer making the contest fair. Besides, Area B is SUPER competitive (to the point I'm seeing it rival Area C), and Area D is not competitive (last year was the first time 4A State Finals did not have at least one band from each Area since 2021, and it was missing Area D), so it would be fair to not only the 8 North bands, but also to the rest of Area B (since 3 out of the 5 State Qualifiers last year were from 8 North). Additionally, it wouldn't be stealing anything from the current Area D bands: out of the bottom 7 placements at State last year, 4 of them were Area D (out of the bottom 4 placements, 3 were Area D). Only Burnet and Fredericksburg 'belonged' at the contest, and concentrating the class's best bands in North/East Texas (out of the top 17 bands, 11 were from just Areas B and C, and there were only 12 from the 2 Areas out of all 27) makes it unfair to other bands that may have fared well (e.g., Canton and Krum).

I'm not trying to attack the Area D bands. Personally, La Grange's show last year was my favorite, and I couldn't stop smiling and clapping at how radiant and fun the band was in the dome, but even then, I knew they shouldn't've been there. To quote what I had said to my friend sitting with me, "They're definitely an Area Finals band, but I'm not sure about a State band."

I think you make a sound argument on how many of the bands down south have challenges when the Area Competition is so far away. This is a problem in 3A Area C as well with some bands driving all the way from the coast to Whitehouse which for some is 3-4 hours at least. 

I think there will be some tweaks in UIL next year with some schools moving up/down and some Areas might get redrawn a little bit. I don't think you are going to see massive changes though.

I do wish Area was not in the same place every year and maybe in a rotation with 2-3 other spots. I know sometimes it's hard to find a place to host because many of the schools that could host an Area Competition don't want to the hassle.

[letsgo]

23 hours ago, tastiestbiscuit123 said:

Here's a take: Send Region 8 North back to Area D. It doesn't make sense to me why the UIL would split up Region 8. The bands down in the Waco area actually have a longer drive to get to Denton than they did to get to Pflugerville, so much so that the UIL put them all last in the draw order this year, which destroys the 'randomness' aspect of the draw order, no longer making the contest fair. Besides, Area B is SUPER competitive (to the point I'm seeing it rival Area C), and Area D is not competitive (last year was the first time 4A State Finals did not have at least one band from each Area since 2021, and it was missing Area D), so it would be fair to not only the 8 North bands, but also to the rest of Area B (since 3 out of the 5 State Qualifiers last year were from 8 North). Additionally, it wouldn't be stealing anything from the current Area D bands: out of the bottom 7 placements at State last year, 4 of them were Area D (out of the bottom 4 placements, 3 were Area D). Only Burnet and Fredericksburg 'belonged' at the contest, and concentrating the class's best bands in North/East Texas (out of the top 17 bands, 11 were from just Areas B and C, and there were only 12 from the 2 Areas out of all 27) makes it unfair to other bands that may have fared well (e.g., Canton and Krum).

I'm not trying to attack the Area D bands. Personally, La Grange's show last year was my favorite, and I couldn't stop smiling and clapping at how radiant and fun the band was in the dome, but even then, I knew they shouldn't've been there. To quote what I had said to my friend sitting with me, "They're definitely an Area Finals band, but I'm not sure about a State band."

Splitting region 8 was odd for sure but the real problem lies at how many bands advance to Area. You would be looking at even less state spots for area b and then area d would approach 35+ bands. No system is perfect but you have to keep in mind how long that day might be for some of those bands regardless of how much competition they have. Prior to the realignment you had bands performing at 9am and making finals performing around midnight. I believe it was due to safety more than anything else, no perfect system

[tastiestbiscuit123]

17 hours ago, 4Afan said:

Is it speculation that the draw order wasn’t random? Or do you have confirmation that those bands got later draws for that particular reason?

I've talked to a few different people who say the 8 North bands 'complained enough to get it implemented' (even two from 8 North), which is just fancy talk for saying it might just be speculation. However, the draw order is as follows (out of 49 bands): Lorena (37), Connally (39), Gatesville (40), Hillsboro (41), Robinson (42), La Vega (48), and China Spring (49). Not even this specific draw order, but just these seven bands all being between 37 and 49 has a less than 0.002% chance of happening (about 0.0019977%), which is less than 1 in 50,000 (about 1 in 50,060). While yes, it can happen, it just seems too...coincidental, I suppose, after quite a few 8 North bands sent in grievances.

5 hours ago, letsgo said:

Splitting region 8 was odd for sure but the real problem lies at how many bands advance to Area. You would be looking at even less state spots for area b and then area d would approach 35+ bands. No system is perfect but you have to keep in mind how long that day might be for some of those bands regardless of how much competition they have. Prior to the realignment you had bands performing at 9am and making finals performing around midnight. I believe it was due to safety more than anything else, no perfect system

You do make a valiant point, but a good fix would be to also send Regions 13 and 17 back to Area E. Last year, the Area D contest did not shrink (30 bands in 2021, 29 in 2022, 32 in 2023, and 31 in 2024). If the 9 Region 13 bands that advanced to Area returned to Area E and the 4 8 North bands that advanced to Area returned to Area D, the number of bands would've shrinken to 26, the smallest Area D would've been since 2020 (Region 17 has no 4A bands, but it and 13 have exclaves in one another and are usually clumped together). To remedy those being lost from Area B, bring Region 25 back to Area B. They also had 4 bands advance, which would've kept Area B at 28, and it wouldn't've affected Area C. Area C had 39 Area Qualifiers (24 showed up), so if Region 25 left, they would've still advanced 12 bands to Area Finals and 7 bands to State while keeping the contest small at 20 (and losing both Celina AND Farmersville would've opened up space for two other bands). Sure, Area E's contest would've grown from 26 to 35, so then move Region 11 to Area A. Area E is held in Corpus Christi, which is incredibly far from Region 11, so sending them to Area A (and moving that contest from Amarillo to Midland or Odessa, which would also shrink Region 22 bands' ridiculously long drives) would've taken 5 bands from the contest, shrinking Area E down to 30 and growing Area A to 22—Area A has always had the smallest contest in 4A, anyway. Under all of this, 27 bands still would've advanced to State, and it would've allowed other bands (like Canton, Krum, and another one like Van Alstyne) a rightful chance to perform in the dome.

This may all seem circumstantial, and it could very easily change, but not by much. If this were the new system, there would be 38 bands in Area A, 41 in Area B, 41 in Area C, 33 in Area D, and 33 in Area E, which would be the most distributed I think I've ever seen in 4A (way more than what we have this year: 30 in Area A, 43 in Area B, 46 in Area C, 37 in Area D, and 30 in Area E). Even then, the larger sizes of Areas A, B, and C would counteract. Last year, out of the 42 Varisty bands that did not receive a 1, over 45% of them were from Regions 16 (Area A), 20 (Area B), 30 (Area B), and 22 (Area A), and this is a trend from years past. That would keep Areas A and B low, and the amount of Military Marching Bands in Area C would keep Area C low as well (I know for sure there are at least 16, but I believe West Orange Stark is also one), meaning each of the five contests would be about the same size, and equal in fairness across the board. The weight of having better bands in Area C and B would still allow for about 12 every year to advance, while also distributing bands that are currently in those Areas elsewhere.

[RaElk99]

I think Canyon could place very high this year. They beat Westmoore (Oklahoma) at a competition a few weeks ago and Westmoore placed 4th at BOA Midland last weekend. 

[waynet2010]

Canyon will be battling in the top 10 like they have the last several years.

[cheeto2401]

On 10/14/2025 at 3:52 PM, tastiestbiscuit123 said:

I've talked to a few different people who say the 8 North bands 'complained enough to get it implemented' (even two from 8 North), which is just fancy talk for saying it might just be speculation. However, the draw order is as follows (out of 49 bands): Lorena (37), Connally (39), Gatesville (40), Hillsboro (41), Robinson (42), La Vega (48), and China Spring (49). Not even this specific draw order, but just these seven bands all being between 37 and 49 has a less than 0.002% chance of happening (about 0.0019977%), which is less than 1 in 50,000 (about 1 in 50,060). While yes, it can happen, it just seems too...coincidental, I suppose, after quite a few 8 North bands sent in grievances.

never thought i'd see percentages and chances being brought into band

[Gpk1968]

17 minutes ago, cheeto2401 said:

never thought i'd see percentages and chances being brought into band

Wild. 
 

On 10/14/2025 at 3:52 PM, tastiestbiscuit123 said:

I've talked to a few different people who say the 8 North bands 'complained enough to get it implemented' (even two from 8 North), which is just fancy talk for saying it might just be speculatio

Area C has a rule regarding scheduling and distance. It’s in the first section of the link below.  https://www.uilregion21.org/uploads/cms/nav-24-662b8b846555e.pd

I am positive most areas have a similar policy, whether or not it is publicly accessible. Im sure you could contact the Executive Secretary to get a copy since it doesn’t seem to be on their website. These things don’t just change on a whim. There are rules for a reason. 

[tastiestbiscuit123]

It's comical at this point 😂

Area A currently has 23 bands going to Area, and 2 left to compete at Region.
Area C currently has 33 bands going to Area, and 2 left to compete at Region.
Area D currently has 24 bands going to Area, and 6 left to compete at Region.

Areas B and E are at their number of bands. Area B currently has 31 with 3 left to compete, and Area E is firm at 28. Depending on how those 10 other bands do between Monday and Tuesday, we will see anywhere from 25-29 bands at State this year.

[Dave609]

6 minutes ago, tastiestbiscuit123 said:

It's comical at this point 😂

Area A currently has 23 bands going to Area, and 2 left to compete at Region.
Area C currently has 33 bands going to Area, and 2 left to compete at Region.
Area D currently has 24 bands going to Area, and 6 left to compete at Region.

Areas B and E are at their number of bands. Area B currently has 31 with 3 left to compete, and Area E is firm at 28. Depending on how those 10 other bands do between Monday and Tuesday, we will see anywhere from 25-29 bands at State this year.

I thought Area B was 2 away from 35? Someone said they were at 33 

[tastiestbiscuit123]

1 minute ago, Dave609 said:

I thought Area B was 2 away from 35? Someone said they were at 33 

TMF hasn't released Region 8's scores yet, but I'm certain of all the scores except Lorena's and Hillsboro's. I keep hearing that Hillsboro got a 1 and Lorena got a 2, though.

If that's not true, then Area B is in the same boat, with 32 advancing and 3 left (David W. Carter, Townview Center, and Ranchview)

[Dave609]

2 minutes ago, tastiestbiscuit123 said:

TMF hasn't released Region 8's scores yet, but I'm certain of all the scores except Lorena's and Hillsboro's. I keep hearing that Hillsboro got a 1 and Lorena got a 2, though.

If that's not true, then Area B is in the same boat, with 32 advancing and 3 left (David W. Carter, Townview Center, and Ranchview)

Ah ok

[bandmomma2024]

3 hours ago, tastiestbiscuit123 said:

TMF hasn't released Region 8's scores yet, but I'm certain of all the scores except Lorena's and Hillsboro's. I keep hearing that Hillsboro got a 1 and Lorena got a 2, though.

If that's not true, then Area B is in the same boat, with 32 advancing and 3 left (David W. Carter, Townview Center, and Ranchview)

It is true - Hillsboro - 1 and Lorena - 2.  We were there with CS yesterday and heard the results. 

[Dave609]

52 minutes ago, bandmomma2024 said:

It is true - Hillsboro - 1 and Lorena - 2.  We were there with CS yesterday and heard the results. 

Unfortunate. It also looks like Area D won't get to 6 bands either.

 

That means that-

 

Area A- still waiting (2 until 5 bands)

Area B- 6 bands at most

Area C- still waiting (2 until 7 bands)

Area D- 5 bands

Area E- 5 bands

[waynet2010]

Area A got to 5 bands going to state

[tastiestbiscuit123]

We'll know in a couple of hours for sure, but as of now:

Area A will be sending 5 bands
Area B will be sending 6 bands
Area C will be sending 6 or 7 bands
Area D will be sending 5 bands
Area E will be sending 5 bands

This means there will be either 27 or 28 bands at State, which will be the biggest 4A State contest since the 80s (when 6A wasn't even a thing yet, and when most of these bands were 3As). Last year, only 26 bands were slated to make State, but an exception in the UIL's rules saw Area A send 4 bands when they were originally going to send 3. That means, even though there were 27 bands last year, this is the first time 27 bands are for sure advancing, and potentially 28 if Region 9 goes well. As the years pass, we get closer and closer to 30 bands, and I think we'll see that soon, honestly before the current Freshmen graduate.

[tastiestbiscuit123]

Something I just realized that no one actually talked about...

Did anyone see that Panther Creek beat Celina at the McKinney Marching Invitational? It wasn't small either; it was by 12 points across five judges, more than a 2-point average each. The Celina 4-peat may not happen...

[Gpk1968]

6 minutes ago, tastiestbiscuit123 said:

Something I just realized that no one actually talked about...

Did anyone see that Panther Creek beat Celina at the McKinney Marching Invitational? It wasn't small either; it was by 12 points across five judges, more than a 2-point average each. The Celina 4-peat may not happen...

Meh. Judging was kinda crazy at that contest and someone said Celina had something go majorly wrong. I cannot for the life of me remember what it was but clearly they fixed it by the time of the Princeton performance. I’m not saying it won’t happen, but I’m not putting a lot of weight in that contest. Panther creek did not have a great run at plano east and got beat by a lot of schools that shocked me. Last year, celina got tanked at Princeton and still came back to win it. I think anything can happen, but I’m not putting a lot of weight in this one contest. 
 

also, for transparency, I’m biased. I don’t get the PC hype and think people only like them because they hate Celina. Haha. All the hate that used to be centered around argyle has been transferred.