takigan

Bands of America forums probably wouldn't be a bad place to start (they're dead lately, but they've got a huge forum archive that goes back over 9 years). Are there only 3 bands at UNT? I always thought they had 4 (Wind Symphony, Symphonic Band and Concert Band I and II)...plus a brass band.......and like, a billion jazz bands .

You ever watched an old, random show of either BOA or DCI and they either mention some member of the staff or drum majors or you see a close-up of one of the soloists in the show and you randomly yell something out along the lines of "Oh my god, that was my junior high band director!" or like you know them in some other random totally unaffiliated way to the organization they're apart of in the video and you didn't even know? I think one of the drum majors in the Spring 2000 show is a grad percussion assistant here at Sam. lol, nice finish. Pretty innovative for 2000, especially for UIL. After seeing this, I now await the day I see a band that charges the stands right in the middle of the show and finishes their closer in the aisles of the stadium, complete with a lone Trumpet soloist, who, after climbing on top of the press box, plays the most epic closing solo ever. I mean sure, they'd get penalty points out the @$$, I just think it would own.

I guess I redirected this thread in a BOA vs. UIL direction.....but no one's really mentioned much about the future of show concepts/designs. The BOA forerunners (LD Bell, The Woodlands, Richland, Reagan, Churchill, Cypress Falls, Hebron, Westfield etc.) have been the most influential in pushing the marching band tradition in Texas......every year these schools seem to outdo themselves in new, innovative....even CRAZY concepts. Though I wonder how groundbreaking and unique your shows can get before you run out of ideas.

People can change though....who runs the band portion of UIL? Band directors. The same band directors who are reforming their programs to fit the BOA standard. Even such a traditional organization as DCI evolved from a strict military tradition into a modern art form. From G Bugles and on-field drum majors into Flash, pizazz and electronics. I don't think any of us can picture it happening anytime soon, but BOA is still expanding. In '85 Texas had 1 Regional, in 95 they gained another one and in 2001 the number of Texas Regionals was bumped up to 3. Lately they've been trying to add a 4th...this has been caused by more schools taking an interest in the competition. Here's a possible scenario. BOA eventually gains 7 or 8 (or more) regionals in Texas sometime in the next few decades. With enough schools presenting interest (say 70-80% of the 4A and 5A schools, not so many that are 3A and smaller), and the crowds provided by all of these schools big enough to justify the decision; several of (though not all....the newer venues would still be at College Stadiums and the like) the Regionals are held in "dome" style venues. With that many regionals in such incredible venues and enough influence, what if they dared schedule a Regional on the same day as a UIL competition. With that many Regionals having to be scheduled within the 6-8 week competition bubble, it's possible. Schools would have to make a choice. Obviously in today's world, 99.99% of schools would opt out for UIL, seeing BOA as just something that's really great, but not much more important than DMI, or Westlake, or SHSU, or TOC...and therefore expendable. Well actually.....on second thought, I could see a few schools crossing over.....I mean look at Westfield, they did it out of their own free will, they didn't even need a schedule conflict to push them. What about the schools that do as many BOA events as they can? I imagine they would be much easier persuaded to relinquish the UIL tradition than most....and that's just in today's world. My idea of the UIL marching competition being "phased out" might be a little extreme. But I see it a possibility that more of the larger schools will start to follow Westfield's lead, frusturated with UIL's rules and judging system, driven by their newfound interest in the pageantry and marching as an art form that is continuing to envelop them year after year. BOA holds a monopoly over competitions in many states....it was easy for them to gain that hold as well, much akin to an HEB Plus or Wal-Mart supercenter moving into a podunk hick town in the middle of nowhere and taking over. Not so in Texas, because we already have a strong marching tradition in place. Most of the people in this thread don't feel like that will ever change.....I on the other hand just think it's just a matter of time......a lot of time mind you (Texas' music program conglomerate' is quite massive), but it'll chip away eventually as the organization continues to expand.

BOA will not phase out the organization known as UIL.......ever. And no, I'm not contradicting myself.

I like this thread. Personally, I feel like the future holds many things for the activity. For starters I feel like Bands of America will either phase out UIL or UIL will reform its contest to keep from being phased out by BOA. I don't see this happening any time in the near future but the organization is growing very rapidly and for many bands I feel like they only compete in UIL because they're expected to. Bands will eventually begin to challenge this and all it'll take is a small group of these rouge bands (Westfield is a good example) to swing the trend. But regardless, I don't necessarily feel like UIL will be 'phased out' per say....small schools will never be able to afford BOA, and it's just not lucrative for the many schools that cling to the traditional military style to abandon UIL. But I could see the reformed UIL phasing out the military style from their competition (not actively refusing them, but making it pointless for them to compete in different contest standards) and the emigrating bands finding their own niche in the military style contests that are out there. BOA is already phasing out 5A patronage at a lot of inivitational marching contests (the Buccaneer marching festival at Blinn College hardly gets any 5A bands anymore because they're all doing BOA). I believe BOA's increased influence over Texas is the reason our bands are reforming their programs. We're absorbing a lot of the art and pageantry concepts of the Midwest (which are the way they are because it's where BOA's influence is the strongest).....and BOA pretty much has the monopoly on marching contests in that neck of the woods. I definitely feel like marching bands these days, although flashier and more entertaining; don't look or sound as clean and uniform, and I also wonder how far you can push the concept of a show before you run out of ideas.

But I think ya'll were quite fortunate to get the opportunity to perform there and get a feel for the dome's trippy acoustics early in the season before performing there again in November. For most schools BOA San Antonio is the first (and usually only) time the band gets to break its freshman in to the "dome experience" (the energy, the acoustics, the feel of the turf etc.)....getting a chance to perform there pre-season is a big advantage. Speaking of BOA, I just ordered G-Town's BOA DVD from last year (39 bucks, yeesh!). You think anyone important (directors etc.) will throw a fit if I put it on Youtube once it comes in?

Pretty similar to my prediction. Though I'd have Berkner in 1st and Haltom in 2nd. However I, like a few of you here (and unlike a couple of the staff members here [heh ]) believe Wylie is perfectly capable of winning this contest.....they've beaten Hebron in the past back when they were both 4A, and I'd say Hebron, Haltom and Berkner are similar enough in ability now to where it could go any way between them. Wylie has simply been quiet on the contest front the past couple years (especially with their classification switch causing them to miss out on a few Area and State competitions)....it's hard to say but the prevailing winds favor either Berkner or Haltom winning this time....but I just want to say I don't rule Wylie out at all....

So uhh....why are we only voting for captions? There will be rankings for this competition right?

Gosh if I had a nickel for everytime that's happened...even back in my day! They used to be the biggest handful when we were playing rival schools like Round Rock or Leander. Rowdy bunch of hooligans they are! *shakes fist* lol, I'm so old.

Heh.....I remember that class. With Boatright correct? Easiest class in the world. I thrived on signing up for classes where you'd do almost nothing year-round. Took instrumental ensemble every year (an easy class where you could do absolutely nothing if you knew how to escape the directors), maxed out my off-periods, took another 2 or 3 classes where you didn't have to do anything....that was the life .

You know what's sad.....that wasn't the first time Georgetown's disgraced itself in the face of the marching band community concerning the Westlake competition. I remember back in '01 (my sophomore year) during the performance of the remaining bands in finals after we'd gone on, a couple G-Town students got a hold of the stash of cones, barriers and tape that the Westlake staff had used to regulate traffic for the competition.....they took the role of yellow "Caution" tape (like the kind you see covering crime scenes and such), took it up into the stands where the rest of the band was watching the remaining finalist bands and started tearing off strips of it and passing it around; the receipients then forming them into headbands and armbands to wear on their person. Not to mention we were being really LOUD while the other bands were performing. So loud, one of the directors from one of the other schools complained to the Westlake staff, the Westlake staff came over, and upon finding out what we did with the tape (since technically what we did could be considered VANDALISM) informed our head director.....we almost got disqualified and even SUSPENDED from the competition. Only through intense apologizing from our staff did they reconsider, and we got HE11 for it after the competition! We didn't compete the following year, and when we competed again in '03 our directors were almost too afraid to enter, thinking the past might repeat itself getting us suspended for real that time. Lucky for us, Finals got rained out that year. I didn't know this Facebook group existed....that's sort of disheartening .

Sorry for the double post but I wonder how lucrative it would be for programs that travel this much to invest in a set of coach buses for their schools. It'd probably be cheaper for everyone in the long run.

But with that many students, it should start to become cheaper per person because many businesses (hotels, charter buses, airlines, restaurants, tourist attractions etc.) are willing to offer discounts to large groups such as these just due to the fact that they're bringing in a large amount of business. I think $925 is a bit excessive just for the Fall. I mean if you budget it this way: Bus Charter to Grand Nationals - $50,000 - $60,000 Hotel (4 nights, 350 people split into 90 rooms at $150 per night/room) - $54,000 Restaurants (Dinner each night provided, free continental breakfast, leave remaining food at students expense, so 4 total meals at $10 per plate) - $14,000 I estimate the total trip tab adding up to about $130,000 (after adding taxes and miscellaneous expenses). It'd be more if you flew but this totals about $400 per person (300 band kids covering the trip for themselves plus the 50 extra people that consists of staff and chaperones). You might say "Yeah, well that's just Grand Nationals....what about all those other trips?". Of course....but since you're chartering for only 1 day for each trip (except San Antonio) and don't need to pay room expenses or meal expenses or nearly the amount for mileage, so it's just chump change. For BOA Houston you'll probably pay $10,000-$15,000 tops for the charterbus motorcade and additional expenses ($30-$50 per person). UIL Region and Area can be ventured with school buses provided by the district since the competitions are close by (WAY cheaper, you'd basically only have to pay for mileage since the band directors and parent conscripts could drive the buses). State would be just like the Houston trip (and roughly $30-50 per person). The remaining venture lies in BOA San Antonio. The determining factor here is the timeslot you get for San Antonio. BOA doesn't even have to be an overnight trip if you get a good timeslot and depending on where you are. The fact that Bell has to travel farther than most bands makes them more liable to have to stay overnight. Hotel costs for one night in San Antonio would run about $12,000. Add $25,000 for the motorcade and you get about $40,000. With meals etc. that's about $150 per person for the trip. Come to think of it, it IS starting to add up . Trip costs for the Fall add up to 600-700 dollars per person. When you consider the band will probably have to charter at least 4 sets of buses for the year plus at least 2 overnight stays just during the Fall, not to mention this band is already a high roller when it comes to show design, I guess the amount makes more sense. That's a lot of money, and there's no way I would have been able to do band under this budget when I was in school....when I was in HS, like Xenon, we only had to pay a flat $50 fee which covered the show shirt, uniform cleaning fees and basic expenses (drinks at games etc.), plus we had to buy shoes to use during our 4-year career, plus you still had to pay your portion of the Spring trip ($150-$250). My parents would raise a ruckus at even having to pay the trip fee using inane comments like "Well, where are all of our school taxes going then?". The year after I left, my school instituted an "activity fee" of $150 or so which the school used to start turning itself into a true "suburban school band" as I like to call it. I probably would have had to drop band at that point, though I like to relish about throwing these L.D. Bell numbers at them just to let them know how easy they had it .

You bet they do. http://ldbellband.org/FeeSchedule.pdf somebody have a ballpark figure about how many students are in the L.D. Bell band and thus, have to follow this payment schedule?

I don't think such a list exists yet in complete form. ....mind you I'm not saying mbui still won't post a complete one that's in fact 100% accurate within the week.....all I'm saying is that it doesn't exist yet.

Phantom 96 had some cool Trumpet runs near the beginning/middle of their show (after the big drum break)

Is delusional for thinking his designated aformentionee is delusional in thinking she is nice

Ugh.....even if L.D. Bell had 2 or 3 minutes in their overal show where hardly anything was moving on the field, their entire show from the timestart to the end of the show was over 11 minutes in length--longer than any other show in finals (over a minute for most of them) and I'm guessing longer than any other band at Grand Nationals (it's 2 minutes longer than The Woodlands and nearly 3 minutes longer than Carmel's show), they went over the alotted time limit and the show is one of the few (if not only) shows in existence that won't fit within Youtube's standard 10 minute limit, even with trimming. Plus they had 4 different endings not to mention a very involved preshow. So they didn't move alot.....but they still had a boatload of actual content to learn which makes up for the lack of kinetic energy they might have had in my opinion.

Seriously? Wouldn't be surprised. The LD Bell Colorguard seems to outdo themselves every year in plain "wackiness". Impaling themselves with Flags, tattoos with strange pseudo-hieroglyphics that are supposed to have some interpretative meaning, mummification.....crazy stuff.

Here's to hoping we'll have a new Predictions season this Fall. I've learned a lot about a lot of not-well-known schools' programs through this little game.

The Piccolo bit is DBZ. It keeps getting canceled then they bring it back then they cancel it again.....last I heard they were still doing it but maybe it WAS canceled. I don't feel like it's going to turn out that great.....I loved DBZ but.....no.

2 of those Piccolo players will be murdered by the end of the season

This is a philosophy that's held by the vast majority of Texas band programs along with a tiny group of band "strongholds" (look at the BOA Grand Nationals roster for some good examples) that are scattered all over the nation outside of Texas (called a 'stronghold' because the band program either had a phenomenal team of lobbyists for the school board or a strong enough booster program to be able to "salvage the ship" while other neighboring programs went under as the money that was keeping them afloat got sucked away by community activists who figured Music Education was no longer "necessary" for their district). This is an opinion and by no means a universal argument. [school] Band wasn't created strictly to create a group mentality for kids. Schools keep their music programs around because they want their kids to learn MUSIC (in every sense of the word) because they've accepted the reality that learning music stimulates the mind in such ways that allow them to perform better in academic subjects. Concepts like "One band One Sound" mean nothing to a school board. The only reason I believe the schools group kids in "band" or "choir" classes is for the same reason people buy in bulk at Sam's Club. It's more cost effective than hiring a dozen teachers to teach the kids in groups that better conform to the school's student:teacher ratio. Better put them all in one room and stick 1 teacher in front of them and save money. Texas is privileged to have staffs at some schools with as many as 5 or 6 band directors. Up north it's typical for a school to have 1 "music teacher" on campus that is expected to do everything from choir to band to whatever else they actually have the energy to put together by themselves. And many more schools don't even have that. You need to realize the way band is viewed in Texas is very different from a lot of the rest of the country. A student does not have a duty to the school's band program. A band program has a duty to instruct that student and help them in their pursuit to become the best musicians they can be, regardless of interest. And a band director sure as he11 doesn't have the right to prevent a student from pursuing their own interests in learning music simply because it's detrimental to the sound of their ensemble. As far as usage of equipment goes, the band director is justified in seeing that the school's equipment is used to the best benefit of the band, but if a student was so dedicated that they went out and bought their own equipment to use, the school should do the best they can to accommodate the student's personal interest in musical pursuits. If the band director still refused and I was this student in question I could easily make a case to the school board that would require the director to allow me the instrument switch or risk losing his job. According to your logic, the band director has every right to prevent you from dropping band and joining choir because the loss of your person in band would be detrimental to the band's sound. Students learning music in the way that is best for them is more important than having a school band that sounds good. Any member of the community outside of band could vouche for this. Where are you getting this information? (Texas institutions starting their students earlier I mean). Nothing in my experience even suggests this to be true. But yes, this difference in ability is due to Texas and their interest in funding full staffs of specialized teachers to instruct kids music in public schools. Are you familiar with the harmonic series? How about overtone series' and how they relate to equal versus well temperament? Even your average Texas All-State musician couldn't even define these terms, much less explain them to you. You're more likely to find a much less skilled musician up north who can explain these basic things to you in detail because the kids up there spend just as much time in front of a chalkboard as they do in front of a stand learning music. Most Texas HS musicians graduate high school without ever learning their minor scales on their instrument (myself included.....and I was first chair Euphonium all 4 years of HS). In a well established northern music program this is practically an atrocity. My Conducting teacher (former conductor of the United States Air Force Band) told me about a Flute player who once won a position in the AF band simply because she practiced the audition repertoire for hundreds of hours on end. She had a stellar audition and won the position, but the band later found out she really couldn't play much else and they had to fire her.

I was part of a little circle of people that passed around an offer of $500 to write drill for a 27 piece military marching band in New Waverly (a little A or AA High School just outside of Huntsville). The school couldn't afford a professional writer and I'm guessing decided to bring in an amateur since no one in-house obviously had the time. Looking back I probably should have taken it but I didn't have the knowledge (military style), experience, technology (Pyware), or the interest (besides the money) for the undertaking. Everybody else who was in on it were morons too. One of the guys who was asked actually WANTS to be a drill writer after college but I guess felt like writing for military corps style was beneath his dignity. You gotta start somewhere I say :/ .....Drill writing (and composing for that matter) isn't an easy business to break into.