General Effect?

[CFadrian10]

okay, so i feel like general effect tends to vary from contest to contest and i don't exactly know what GE actually is, can someone enlighten me on it?

[Danpod]

okay, so i feel like general effect tends to vary from contest to contest and i don't exactly know what GE actually is, can someone enlighten me on it?

 

It's kind of like asking what's at the bottom of Marianas Trench. In simple terms, General Effect is the "mood" of the show. Tons of different factors determine how high a General Effect score can be such as show performance and visual design.

[Danpod]

Also, depending on the contest, the term General Effect can be judged different ways. Bands of America's idea of General Effect might be different from Westlake Marching Festival's General Effect.

 

For that very reason, I've always told students to just perform their darn show and let the numbers play themselves out. Worrying about General Effect is kind of like worrying whether or not the Pop Tart is going to be dangerously hot when it comes out of the toaster. It is what it is so just blow really hard =)

[hachieband]

Also, depending on the contest, the term General Effect can be judged different ways. Bands of America's idea of General Effect might be different from Westlake Marching Festival's General Effect.

 

For that very reason, I've always told students to just perform their darn show and let the numbers play themselves out. Worrying about General Effect is kind of like worrying whether or not the Pop Tart is going to be dangerously hot when it comes out of the toaster. It is what it is so just blow really hard =)

 

Probably one of the best quotes i have ever read on here! Love the analogy!

[drummerjoe]

I've always thought of it as asking "Will the audience like it?" That may be just wildly inaccurate, but it seems to work out that way a lot.

[Xenon]

It's not so much about the audience liking the show; it's about how well did you sold the show.

 

Did you stand and move with confidence? Did you express the show with the proper energies that are consistent with the meanings of the show? Or did you just go through the motions and not care?

[drummerjoe]

It's not so much about the audience liking the show; it's about how well did you sold the show.

 

Did you stand and move with confidence? Did you express the show with the proper energies that are consistent with the meanings of the show? Or did you just go through the motions and not care?

 

Ahh, I guess that explains why the Blue Devils consistently do well.

[NewMexicoBandsman]

Ahh, I guess that explains why the Blue Devils consistently do well.

 

Their mirror show gave me a headache

[Danpod]

I've always thought of it as asking "Will the audience like it?" That may be just wildly inaccurate, but it seems to work out that way a lot.

 

The audience may love a band blasting mariachi music for ten minutes, but if it sounds like crap, the General Effect scores are going to be down. We also have to keep in mind who is in the audience. Typically, you have a lot of biased people who are going to go absolutely nuts for their own program and sit on their hands when everyone else is on. If your performance can get a good reaction out of a marching band crowd, there's a good chance that you are sending those same types of energies to the judges.

[bchorn]

The audience may love a band blasting mariachi music for ten minutes, but if it sounds like crap, the General Effect scores are going to be down. We also have to keep in mind who is in the audience. Typically, you have a lot of biased people who are going to go absolutely nuts for their own program and sit on their hands when everyone else is on. If your performance can get a good reaction out of a marching band crowd, there's a good chance that you are sending those same types of energies to the judges.

 

Its funny what you mentioned about the biased people who watch shows. There was a guy sitting next to me at the Vista Ridge contest who was quiet the whole evening until the very last band (Westlake) took the field.

 

From that moment on, he was clapping almost every 30 seconds throughout the entire show. It didn't matter what the band was doing on the field or if everyone else in the stands was trying to enjoy the show (which I enjoyed very much despite this guy), he was clapping.

[NickRC]

I always find general effect a little biased. Not all the time but for the most part I believe this. I think its a reputation thing, if you have a reputation for pushing the envelope general effect wise, then that band will score high in GE.

 

Just look at the bands who are constantly the top at BOA, not saying that they aren't already the best of the best but they are constantly receiving high GE scores because they have a rep. for producing the best GE shows.

(Go Ahead Slam My Opinion!)

Edited October 17, 2011 by NickRC

[scoobydoo]

I always find general effect a little biased. Not all the time but for the most part I believe this. I think its a reputation thing, if you have a reputation for pushing the envelope general effect wise, then that band will score high in GE.

 

Just look at the bands who are constantly the top at BOA, not saying that they aren't already the best of the best but they are constantly receiving high GE scores because they have a rep. for producing the best GE shows.

(Go Ahead Slam My Opinion!)

 

 

I wholeheartedly agree with you.

[DorianDude]

umm not necessarily....

 

My band recently made 2nd (or 3rd?) in GE recently at a marching competition that it hadn't gone to finals in years.

 

In my opinion, GE is BOA's guard against what sometimes happens at UIL--- bands that have harder music/drill but don't execute lose to bands that have a much easier show, but execute just a hair better.

[longhornsax]

I always find general effect a little biased. Not all the time but for the most part I believe this. I think its a reputation thing, if you have a reputation for pushing the envelope general effect wise, then that band will score high in GE.

 

Just look at the bands who are constantly the top at BOA, not saying that they aren't already the best of the best but they are constantly receiving high GE scores because they have a rep. for producing the best GE shows.

(Go Ahead Slam My Opinion!)

 

Maybe it's because bands who are constantly at the top of BOA are constantly pushing the envelope? Do you think that top bands just take a year off of producing great shows and just ride their reputation for a year? Maybe these bands are always at the top because they're always putting out the best shows?

 

Just maybe though

[NickRC]

Maybe it's because bands who are constantly at the top of BOA are constantly pushing the envelope? Do you think that top bands just take a year off of producing great shows and just ride their reputation for a year? Maybe these bands are always at the top because they're always putting out the best shows?

 

Just maybe though

 

Now I didn't say that. But there is no denying that reputation plays a role in some contests maybe not all but some!

Edited October 18, 2011 by NickRC

[NewMexicoBandsman]

Maybe it's because bands who are constantly at the top of BOA are constantly pushing the envelope? Do you think that top bands just take a year off of producing great shows and just ride their reputation for a year? Maybe these bands are always at the top because they're always putting out the best shows?

 

Just maybe though

 

Seconded.

[drummerjoe]

Their mirror show gave me a headache

 

Did you know that show was about BD's past shows? Ridiculous right??

[CFadrian10]

thanks guys!

[Spikelectric]

I like turtles!

Edited October 27, 2011 by Spikelectric

[NickRC]

My hope is that UIL will eventually overhaul the scoring system and allow for judges to be on the field and spread out the wealth of points beyond just 5 judges. I have seen MANY bands get hurt badly due to one judge trying to leave room for points and vice versa under the UIL system.

 

I disagree! What you are trying to do is make UIL more like BOA and I think this is wrong!

UIL is a different sanctioning body and has different standards, (ie. UIL 60%music 40%marching and BOA 60%GE and 40%Music) and keeps GE out of its judging rubric because it causes a lot of questions. I think UIL has worked and needs no changes, if a band wants to be rewarded for GE they can go compete in BOA.

[oagcplayer]

Not having GE incorporated into scoring really stinks. Everyone seems to forget that marching bands perform at high school football games as well, and their job during halftime is to ENTERTAIN the crowd. I've seen schools do really well at UIL scored competitions that had shows that were BORING. If you'd like to have the crowds all go to the concession stand at halftime, do your boring show technically well, and no one at the stadium well give a turkey. If you'd like to get the future musicians of America interested in music early, give them a reason to stick around at halftime by entertaining them.

[Spikelectric]

...and giraffes!

Edited October 27, 2011 by Spikelectric

[Xenon]

Not having GE incorporated into scoring really stinks. Everyone seems to forget that marching bands perform at high school football games as well, and their job during halftime is to ENTERTAIN the crowd. I've seen schools do really well at UIL scored competitions that had shows that were BORING. If you'd like to have the crowds all go to the concession stand at halftime, do your boring show technically well, and no one at the stadium well give a turkey. If you'd like to get the future musicians of America interested in music early, give them a reason to stick around at halftime by entertaining them.

 

GE has absolutely nothing to do with excitement, boring, entertainment, or even crowd friendliness.

 

And UIL absolutely does contain GE elements within the judging captions. It is just that the elements themselves are broken down differently and expressed more as performance related GE elements.

[NickRC]

Are you serious? You do know that BOA splits the GE caption into MUSIC GE and Visual GE right? This means that you get points for MUSIC GE...Music is still the largest amount of points you get at BOA. The difference is that you have to satisfy certain parameters in each sub caption to earn those points. UIL DOES reward General Effect but it is differently defined and has very little to do with the bands score in the end. You can march and play mary had a little lamb and as long as it sounds amazing you can get a division I!

 

UIL has different standards? Also false! BOA gives more opportunity to reward good performance. UIL only gives credit for minimum expectations. If anything BOA has higher standards for overall performance. UIL will let you get by as long as you sound well developed.

 

My assumption is that you got screwed over because UIL doesn't have GE in it's rubric, which would explain your passion for GE.

 

And I'm pretty sure you contradicted yourself by saying false and then giving why BOA and UIL have different standards! The different standard is that UIL cares more about music, which is important after all we are playing music! Music gets shoved to the back seat at BOA, even though there is a Music GE. The Rubric heavily favors the Visual/Marching GE over Music, which again is wrong!

[Rubisco]

GE has absolutely nothing to do with excitement, boring, entertainment, or even crowd friendliness.

 

This isn't entirely accurate. It's true that we shouldn't view GE as being purely about how entertaining a show is to a general football crowd, but to say that it has nothing to do with excitement is false. The issue is that while BOA judges are supposed to take audience reaction into consideration, they're also encouraged to act on their own tastes and preferences. You can guess whose preference (Judge vs. Crowd) takes the front seat in the scoring. (This is spelled out in the adjudication handbook, which I'm surprised hasn't been posted.)

 

 

Music gets shoved to the back seat at BOA, even though there is a Music GE. The Rubric heavily favors the Visual/Marching GE over Music, which again is wrong!

 

Music accounts for 60% of a band's score at BOA, while Visual accounts for 40%. I think you're making a mistake when you take the amount devoted to Music Performance and compare it to the amount devoted to both Visual Performance and Visual GE. This ignores the fact that Music GE is strongly connected to performance considerations. In fact, half of all Music GE is in what is called the "performance subcaption", while the other half is in "repertoire", which would be related to design aspects. Critics of the BOA scoring system generally overlook this fact and say that GE is all about show design, which is patently false. Really, in the big scheme of things, performance considerations make up 70% of a band's score, while design ones make up 30%. Whoever said earlier that one must perform a show at a high level before one can expect a high GE score was simply reiterating something every BOA judge has been taught.

 

There are of course significant differences between BOA and UIL. I find that in UIL I can accurately predict all state finalists based purely on fine-line music performance, whereas I can't do the same in BOA. I find that the bands that make finals at UIL state generally are the ones that sound closest to concert ensembles. There are things to be commended about this style of judging, and I find myself sometimes wishing that BOA would recruit some UIL judges for their Music Performance caption judging, since I feel that UIL judges pay more attention to proper tone concepts than BOA judges do. That said, BOA does focus on a lot of important things that UIL judges don't, and on the whole I prefer the BOA system to the UIL system.

 

Anyway, I just signed up because I'm bored and wanted to look at predictions. This was a little bit discursive. I'm off to post my predictions!