2010 UIL State

[bchorn]

a lot of the bands that played first in the morning got first banded, O'connor's scores (out of 100 in each category) 50 50 50 50 50.

 

Yeah, but Bell was the fifth band to perform in the morning (at 8:30) and that didn't hurt them.

[numeroUNO]

a lot of the bands that played first in the morning got first banded, O'connor's scores (out of 100 in each category) 50 50 50 50 50.

 

 

I never thought of that scoring technique. That's such a good idea. I was wondering what judges would do if they accidentally scored a band too high or too low in the beginning. That means O'Connor' performance would have served as a standard. Do you by chance know what place O'Connor got?

[whitewing09]

It's funny that Reagan and Johnson ranked very similarly at Area, BOA, and State

Edited November 3, 2010 by whitewing09

[daldhowe]

I never thought of that scoring technique. That's such a good idea. I was wondering what judges would do if they accidentally scored a band too high or too low in the beginning. That means O'Connor' performance would have served as a standard. Do you by chance know what place O'Connor got?

 

33

[Noz]

There was a rumor that Johnson received a penalty in the prelims for going over time (by 2 seconds). I haven't seen anything in here or anywhere else on that subject.

 

Was it just a wild rumor, or did Johnson incur some sort of penalty?

[Guitarplayer1002]

There was a rumor that Johnson received a penalty in the prelims for going over time (by 2 seconds). I haven't seen anything in here or anywhere else on that subject.

 

Was it just a wild rumor, or did Johnson incur some sort of penalty?

 

 

they did go over time but the judges started the clock a few seconds before their pre-show was over so i don't believe a penalty was received.

[Noz]

they did go over time but the judges started the clock a few seconds before their pre-show was over so i don't believe a penalty was received.

 

Thanks!

[numeroUNO]

33

 

 

I thought they would have placed a little higher. Still, I think that scoring technique is the most fair. I think it would have worked out better if the band that performed first was one that placed somewhere in the

15th-25th range so that they have more room to score the "better" and "worse" bands. Then again, there is no way to tell who would be in that range until the scores actually come out...(The chicken or the egg?)

[longhorn2190]

Man, Marcus and LD Bell own the Alamodome! Think about it- those two schools have won every BOA Super Regional or State competition there since 2006! (06-BOA: Bell, UIL: Marcus; 07-BOA: Marcus; 08-BOA: Bell, UIL: Marcus; 09-BOA: Bell; 10- BOA & UIL: Marcus)

[1fineday]

I get that no one got complely screwed over by judging but Round Rock did have the widest spread of rankings of the night

Music: 24 5 17

Marching: 5 25

 

It seems that Round Rock might have been in finals if it wasn't for the terrible inconsistencies in judging.

[Danpod]

I get that no one got complely screwed over by judging but Round Rock did have the widest spread of rankings of the night

Music: 24 5 17

Marching: 5 25

 

It seems that Round Rock might have been in finals if it wasn't for the terrible inconsistencies in judging.

 

Handle it with some sort of grace.

 

I will close threads from students/parents who attempt to make their programs look bad.

[Danpod]

Great job by all yesterday! I enjoyed myself thoroughly!

[rcb05]

Inconsistencies in judging are just a part of marching competitions. One judges scores more are no more accurate or valid than another's. True, if Judges 1, 3 and 5 agreed with 2 and 4, Round Rock would be in finals. But then again, you could just as easily argue that 2 and 4 were the outliers and that Round Rock should have been lower than 16th.

 

I didn't see the competition and have no opinion either way, but complaining about judging will never accomplish anything.

[mrwood69]

I get that no one got complely screwed over by judging but Round Rock did have the widest spread of rankings of the night

Music: 24 5 17

Marching: 5 25

 

It seems that Round Rock might have been in finals if it wasn't for the terrible inconsistencies in judging.

 

 

Granted the judging was clearly lopsided on both ends, it did not help RR that their prelims performance was, unfortunately, disappointing. It is what it is though. However I think it's about time that UIL provided a science for their judges to go by, just like DCI and BOA.

 

We all know there's too much of an ability to freelance in scoring after consistent years of huge discrepancies between judges, and it seems like unless you're the top dog at the contest, your band will be shooting in the dark and it's anyone's game. Instead of UIL trying to recruit all these professional music educators from around Texas and the country assuming their expertise will all agree and everything will turn out fairly in the end, they should essentially "hire" judges that they can rely on to judge events on a regular basis, like in DCI. Train them to respond correctly, based upon the UIL rubric, on a consistent basis. So, for example: two judges see a cover down error, and they both deduct the same amount of points... not one judge deducting 1 point, and the other deducting 10. We all know their is a rubric for the judges to reference to, but I don't think any one of them are trained to adhere to the rubric similarly. We've all blamed them in the past for simply being incompetent or biased, etc. but now I believe that it's not actually their fault, but the system that is UIL, and if this system continues, most bands will never truly know how they fared against the competition. Just a suggestion.

[Joeyz]

Personally, I think complaining about judging inconsistencies is nonsensical. It just depends on what the judge is looking at druing a particular part of your show, or just in general. Say side 1 of your field in generally very clean, which the drill on side 2 has serious interval and geometrical problems. If a judge is more focused on side 1, you'll get a significantly higher score from them than from the judge focusing on side 2. Similarly, if one judge values form shape far over individual technique, the score could again be significantly different than one who values them inversely. The same logic applies to musical judges. One might value tone quality most, while another thinks articulation accuracy matters far more. It makes no sense to complain about it - you have to be excellent in every aspect to please those judges, and if you're not, you can count on atleast one of them to catch it. Some people might say it causes faulty inconsistencies, but I think it merely serves to cover all the bases better.

[alinktothepresent]

I didn't see the competition and have no opinion either way, but complaining about judging will never accomplish anything.

 

+1

[MaverickBand15]

hmmm i am pretty sure Texas State won last night...i dont see them in the finals scores...

[drummerjoe]

Personally, I think complaining about judging inconsistencies is nonsensical. It just depends on what the judge is looking at druing a particular part of your show, or just in general. Say side 1 of your field in generally very clean, which the drill on side 2 has serious interval and geometrical problems. If a judge is more focused on side 1, you'll get a significantly higher score from them than from the judge focusing on side 2. Similarly, if one judge values form shape far over individual technique, the score could again be significantly different than one who values them inversely. The same logic applies to musical judges. One might value tone quality most, while another thinks articulation accuracy matters far more. It makes no sense to complain about it - you have to be excellent in every aspect to please those judges, and if you're not, you can count on atleast one of them to catch it. Some people might say it causes faulty inconsistencies, but I think it merely serves to cover all the bases better.

 

Do you honestly expect a band to have near perfection on one side of the field and complete disaster on the other side visually? That's what you're implying about Round Rock, cause their visual rankings were 5 and 25.

[MaverickBand15]

Do you honestly expect a band to have near perfection on one side of the field and complete disaster on the other side visually? That's what you're implying about Round Rock, cause their visual rankings were 5 and 25.

 

Round Rock is super impressive in everything they do, but i do think their is a reason they get such split scores. I think they walk on a thin line between being a marching band and taking the "band" and "Marching" out of band. In my personal opinion i don't think they have crossed that line. I do think that can split the scores cause one judge might really like the style of what they do, but another judge might completely disagree with what they do. I mean most of the bands in finals did a lot more playing and moving than RR did. On the other hand RR's percussion is a lot more impressive than the bands in finals and when it comes to general effects and visuals RR had a STRONG show. So i think RR's split scores are largely to blame on the show they decided to put together...thats the risk you take doing something like that.

[drummerjoe]

I think they walk on a thin line between being a marching band and taking the "band" and "Marching" out of band.

 

I don't quite understand this part, can you explain a little further?

[bchorn]

Round Rock is super impressive in everything they do, but i do think their is a reason they get such split scores. I think they walk on a thin line between being a marching band and taking the "band" and "Marching" out of band. In my personal opinion i don't think they have crossed that line. I do think that can split the scores cause one judge might really like the style of what they do, but another judge might completely disagree with what they do. I mean most of the bands in finals did a lot more playing and moving than RR did. On the other hand RR's percussion is a lot more impressive than the bands in finals and when it comes to general effects and visuals RR had a STRONG show. So i think RR's split scores are largely to blame on the show they decided to put together...thats the risk you take doing something like that.

 

I think there's a lot of truth to this. The scores RR received at Area and State were consistently inconsistent.

 

In the Area prelims, they were ranked 21 1 5 in music.

In the Area finals, they were ranked 3 8 6 in music.

In the State finals, they were ranked 24 5 17 in music.

 

So with such a disparity in rankings, that could be an indicator that the music selection is not every judge's cup of tea. That doesn't mean the students performed it poorly. In fact, I've been a big big fan of the RR show all season long. It just means that maybe RR take a different direction with their music selections for next year's show.

[MaverickBand15]

I don't quite understand this part, can you explain a little further?

I mean if i am being nit picky compared to other schools RR doesn't do as much playing while moving and their drill isn't filled with lines and has lot of follow the leader sets. RR also has a lot of large chunks of percussion break where the band pulls out fans, and they use alot of synthesizer. So i think when you dont play and march as much and your drill is not as hard but your show is super entertaining i would personally have a hard time giving a high musical or visual score. I would give RR huge percussion and visual effect scores. Where as some judges will say it doesn't matter how difficult it is and how much playing is actually it's clean and played well so they will give RR high visual and music scores...and that is where the split judging. But RR cant blame the judges because they should have known designing a show like that would take those risks. Either way RR does what they like to do in an awesome fashon and should be proud of where they got.

[Joeyz]

I though Bowie was incredible all around, and while I adore Marcus, I was rooting for them this year. When I heard Duncanville was third, I actually thinking maybe Bell or Marcus wouldn't medal and Bowie would. Obviously I was quite mistaken on that, but I still enjoyed Bowie far more than the top three. But still, HUGE CONGRATULATIONS to those three bands, they were definitely INCREDIBLE. Great music, impecable marching. And I have a special place in my heart for the LD Bell Color guard - their engery is phenominal

[katsmeow]

What band did not make finals that you think should have made finals?

[drummerjoe]

I mean if i am being nit picky compared to other schools RR doesn't do as much playing while moving and their drill isn't filled with lines and has lot of follow the leader sets. RR also has a lot of large chunks of percussion break where the band pulls out fans, and they use alot of synthesizer. So i think when you dont play and march as much and your drill is not as hard but your show is super entertaining i would personally have a hard time giving a high musical or visual score. I would give RR huge percussion and visual effect scores. Where as some judges will say it doesn't matter how difficult it is and how much playing is actually it's clean and played well so they will give RR high visual and music scores...and that is where the split judging. But RR cant blame the judges because they should have known designing a show like that would take those risks. Either way RR does what they like to do in an awesome fashon and should be proud of where they got.

 

Well the only part where there is little playing while moving is the drum feature, and that's cause the its a drum feature so therefore the band doesn't play.