1998-2018

Having seen all of them, I’m inclined to say it has practically everything to do with the variations in both bands runs and almost nothing to do with the number of judges. It’s also possible the personal preferences of the different judges played a role, but that bit of dirty laundry is usually kept in the closet.

As the battle rages on, it seems noteworthy to remember the top DCI Corps rely heavily on horn lines full of Texas kids. And then totally obliterate the eight hour rule.

My wife, and so far she is correct when it comes to influencing her behavior. 😞

As I recall, not more than one Texas band who made the trip to Grand Nationals has failed to make Semifinals.

“As far as the stream is concerned, two main factors need to be considered.” If only it was that easy to do it well. “2. How much does the labor running the equipment cost?” “Let's say, for instance, you have two camera operators, one audio tech, and one visual tech. I'll assume that all four employees get paid $15/hour. Assuming that they're on the clock for 50 hours during the duration of the state contest, the cost of labor to run the competition is $3,000.” This isn’t a part-time McDonalds drive-thru skill level job. “The factor that could be a wild card is the cost to actually stream the contest.” Yes, the cost of hosting and live streaming of a feed this large is significant. “My analysis could be completely off…” I think you probably got that part correct, but don’t let me discourage you. I love watching budding entrepreneurs explore their business ideas and make a pitch. It’s a skill that requires practice and generally has a steep learning curve. The first, and hardest, step is getting the nerve to publicly tell somebody about your idea. My brother runs a podcast about startup businesses and how to attract Angel Investors. It’s one of several he runs as part of his successful Executive Consulting business. I’m sure he would tell you, “Spiral out! Keep going.”

Both 20’s and the 50.

His playing has matched his beard too. He has definitely thrived during this season and his moment in the sun.

And a Big Texas Smile for the return of cymbal lines and baton twirlers. 😁

Sheldon Cooper, we need a strongly worded e-mail. Now!

Rowdy, The Roadrunner! Absolute perfection. What could possibly be more representative of the spirit of Texas Marching Band attitude?

urmom292, I know there is no malice in your comment, just as there is none in mine. Your comment is fair and reasonably logical, with the possible exception that history is on the side of the Keller Faithful. However, as I have pointed out elsewhere on the forum, history and reputation are nowhere to be found on the scoresheet. As always, an excellent Preliminary run will be required to advance.

Ha! Not even remotely worried about UIL. Just intended to politely acknowledge the possibility and a potential reason why some still doubt, as well as an alternative for those who don’t keep the faith. Nothing is guaranteed, but some outcomes are more likely than others. 🤔 Meanwhile, they still doubt and… A groan of tedium escapes me startling the fearful Is this a test? It has to be Otherwise, I can't go on Draining patience, drain vitality This paranoid, paralyzed vampire act's a little old But I'm still right here, giving blood, keeping faith And I'm still right here But I'm still right here, giving blood, keeping faith And I'm still right here Wait it out Gonna wait it out Be patient

Just like the eight minute maximum performance time rule, the maximum ten years retired rule has been much more strictly enforced for several years now. It was long overdue.

Interesting. With everything that has happened there are still Keller doubters. Sure, they finished 14th in SASR Finals so the possibility of missing SMBC Finals has to at least be considered. But the other side of the coin is they also Finished 10th in SASR Prelims. (Likewise, Pearland was 14th and 12th.) Now the absence of 5A Cedar Park also provides some breathing room. Keller has made SMBC Finals every year there was a full competition since 2014. (This excludes the strange 2020 Covid-19 lockdown mini-contest which they didn’t attend, just like most of the state.) This year the design of the show is also intentionally slanted toward the UIL score sheet. I think it’s a coin flip whether the vacated slot is filled by Waxahatchie or Timber Creek. Other than that the only change I’m expecting is the order of finish for the bands. But there’s a reason the contest is settled on the field instead of in the forum. 🙂 Good luck to everyone! Make that last run memorable.

Okay, based on the Area competition results and differences in the UIL score sheets an argument could be made that, for example, Waxahatchie and Timber Creek could move into Finals. Of course there are others acsoss the state too. The problem is there are the same number of spots available. For someone to move into Finals someone else has to move out. So who are you evicting?

No question about it. Lately bands that miss Finals here routinely make Finals in Indianapolis a week later.

She also has a DVD of Disney’s The Hunchback of Notre Dame for her grandkids and has no problem with the gargoyles in it. 🙄

The suspense is terrible. I hope it’ll last. -Willy Wonka-

Hmm, as a longtime band parent I’ve seen this type of question many times from “newish” band parents. I’d like to suggest you consider an alternative perspective. My username represents my oldest’s Freshman marching season and my youngest’s Senior marching season. She aged out of DCI this summer too. It’s been a long journey and the best lesson I’ve learned came from our Band Director during that first season. “In it to win it” is not the reason to do this. Sure, recognition is nice but chasing it generally leads to disappointment. The important competition is with yourself. (Much like playing golf.) While we spend significant time here debating who “could” make Finals tonight, how many bands have a legitimate shot at winning? Maybe two or three? We all face your dilemma on some level. Coming to that first BOA competition can spark the collective imagination of a band program. Seeing what is possible is inspirational! You mentioned UIL as an alternative. I believe the qualification process for the State Marching Band Championship is intentionally built around this same idea. Our program competes in 6A Area B and every year very high quality bands miss the cut. It makes room for other bands from less competitive areas to attend. They’re not going to win, but they could find the inspiration that leads to the pursuit of personal and collective excellence. The Area B band that was left behind already finds this inspiration locally. Just ask Timber Creek about their journey. The real value of being at the BOA SASR or the UIL SMBC in not found in winning. But someday, for a select few, it might be revealed by winning. The rest will see it expressed across their lifetime.

That’s an excellent question for AvonDad. He said the sheer variety of Texas bands that make Finals at Grand Nationals made much more sense after coming to the SASR. Seeing the level of competition we face all season long at local competitions leading up to this competition was overwhelming. Especially considering the eight hour rule. Feedback from the Avon kids was that they were thrilled with their fourth place SASR finish. I can’t help thinking most of the Indianapolis Super Regional Finals streaks would be broken if the SASR contingent you’re asking about made the trip. But of course you know it’s not in the cards; simply not financially logical. Still a fun thought experiment.

For years the Hendrickson kids had to deal with show designs that weren’t up to the level of their ability to march and play. Definitely not the kids fault and it’s great to see they are no longer saddled with that additional load. They really look and sound like they are enjoying themselves. I agree that it would be nice to see more dynamic range demonstrated. They are not the only band that applies too. It seems to be the theme of this year’s SASR. As more band are achieving “The Big Hit”, for many it seems to be coming at the expense of dynamic range and sometimes also that wonderfully sweet Texas tone that wows the crowd in Indianapolis. No matter how this shakes out in San Antonio, Hendrickson will represent Texas extremely well at Indy!

That run was really something special, wasn’t it?!? They certainly could have used that one at Area B Finals. You saw it, now imagine how that could have influenced the predictions being made. Rest assured, Keller is still Keller and their process is fully intact.

“You’re entitled to your opinion. I’m entitled to mine. Yours is informed by no better evidence than mine is..” Objection. Facts not in evidence. This statement has no basis for support and is therefore purely speculative. “But I will say that there is evidence.” Anecdotal evidence is largely meaningless, only empirical evidence matters. Due to the nature of this forum and some participant’s preferences neither of us will be allowed to openly discuss the evidence and I have no desire to take this conversation outside the forum. I’ve been down this path enough times before. Hang on to your opinion if it helps you rationalize outcomes and enjoy competitions. It didn’t help me when I was getting started. “I will say also that I have heard, with my own ears, directors communicating that the phenomena does occur.” So have I, generally from Directors struggling to rationalize their programs difficulties breaking through to the next level. Saying something happens doesn’t make it true. “I’ve heard judges say it does occur.” No comment. Addressing this directly would require breaking our programs Code of Conduct. I’m not going to do that. However, I will add that I notice you didn’t indicate whether the judges you heard said they have personally made decisions based on reputation or if they were saying they know about others who admit to doing it. “So it’s not just my opinion.” Correct. Unfortunately it’s a very widely held fallacy. Again, that doesn’t make it true. “If you reread my original post, I don’t quibble with it.” No need. I noted that the first time. I’m not convinced that bears any relevance on the subject. “Your esoteric explanation really dances around the key word- it’s subjective. Just like gymnastics and ice skating - and therefore it uses criterion that aren’t objective.” This activity is a combination of science and art. Of course it’s subjective; I did not suggest otherwise. One of the issues in UIL judging is that the relative value of these subjective preferences are not well defined. For example, are musical and visual accuracy more or less valuable than demand? This example, to a certain extent, also falls on a sliding scale of subjectivity but that doesn’t mean it can’t be better defined through documented video training examples. The NFL and NCAA use this option to clarify pass interference rules changing from well defined objectivity in the ‘70’s to the highly subjective mess of today’s game. Another example would be whether music and drill demand have higher value when performed in combination versus being performed separately. This one is actually defined on the judging sheet but we routinely see some bands highly rewarded for what amounts to “park and play” even though this is clearly not in compliance with the current judging sheet. Adjudication based entirely, or even just heavily, on personal preferences is not sustainable. As for the esoteric nature of my comment, you seem to have missed the point. There are people on this forum who can, and will, learn when given the opportunity, simply because they want too. “Like reputation.“ Where exactly is “reputation” on the judging sheet? I’m not saying there are no Judges that have ever been influenced by reputation. But I am saying that it is a very small minority and also highly inappropriate. All a Judge has is their own reputation which is why they don’t let a bands reputation influence the outcome of a competition. Each performance must speak for itself or integrity and credibility is lost. “Boxing” An interesting example. A few years ago I asked a Judge I’ve known for decades about his decision regarding First and Second place at DCI Finals in Indianapolis. He talked me through the details and then said, “If you want to beat the World Champion, you have to do it decisively and leave no question about it.” On the surface that statement might appear to support the idea of reputation influencing a Judge but further discussion revealed that’s not what he was talking about. If you want to break through to the next level, kick down the door. Win decisively. Leave no doubt. “And that’s irrefutable.” Hardly, but you have made it clear you have no intention of being persuaded which is why I originally indicated I was done with this conversation. I chose to reengage because of the possibility that someone else will be open to the information and learn a new perspective. Thereby giving up on a tired fallacy, while gaining a better understanding of the adjudication process and more satisfying enjoyment of the contests they attend. It worked for me. Yeah, I know. My wife always tells me, “Too many words.” 🙄

That day in 1999 Keller was the second band to take the field. At 7:15 am they set the high bar for preliminary competition and finished first. (So much for early runs being a problem.) I don’t remember Coppell’s preliminary performance time but I do remember they finished seventh in preliminary competition. Southlake Carrol, Fossil Ridge, and Colleyville Heritage were all in the mix. If I remember correctly, Grapevine was too. After an excruciating delay while the judges looked up the rules for breaking a three way tie in the middle of the pack the Finals announcements could begin. When they announced third place and Coppell’s name still hadn’t been called the atmosphere was electric. Then second place was announced and the Coppell Drum Major began to step forward before realizing it was Keller who had finished second. There was a brief silence and then the Coppell parents exploded in celebration. The irony of that day was that Keller‘s Director had written Coppell’s drill. In retrospect it was a masterpiece that perfectly highlighted the transitory nature of the period. Core style drill was becoming popular in UIL competition but still faced some resistance as it was replacing military style drill. Coppell’s drill that year blended the two styles masterfully. Mr. McGahey doesn’t write drill for the competition anymore. 😏

Agreed. But they have been doing this dance with Waxahachie for several years now and after breaking through last year, Timber Creek has been playing with new found confidence this year. There is no longer anything tentative about their performances and it has made a huge difference. I look forward to seeing all three in Finals at the SMBC. Yeah, Coppell too, so that makes four.