HHSBandMom225 Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 You forgot two North Texas Power House - Haltom and Richland... they will definitely make finals. I'd put Haltom in bubble rather than lock, but I agree about Richland, and would also add the Woodlands to your locks Based on the past or have you seen both Haltom's and Richland's shows? I've seen both, and I wouldn't be too quick to "bubble" anyone. I also wouldn't put anyone in a lock or bubble unless I'd seen this year's show. There's too many people on here making "lists" based on how a band has done in the past or by word of mouth. I think this competition is too close to call just yet. Anyway -- GO PRIDE OF HALTOM!!! I'm proud of you no matter what! I BELIEVE! Good luck to all bands participating today. Keep the Spirit!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummerjoe Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 You forgot two North Texas Power House - Haltom and Richland... they will definitely make finals. I'd put Haltom in bubble rather than lock, but I agree about Richland, and would also add the Woodlands to your locks Based on the past or have you seen both Haltom's and Richland's shows? I've seen both, and I wouldn't be too quick to "bubble" anyone. I also wouldn't put anyone in a lock or bubble unless I'd seen this year's show. There's too many people on here making "lists" based on how a band has done in the past or by word of mouth. I think this competition is too close to call just yet. Anyway -- GO PRIDE OF HALTOM!!! I'm proud of you no matter what! I BELIEVE! Good luck to all bands participating today. Keep the Spirit!! I'd say "bubbling" someone is a compliment considering how many of the schools attending aren't on either of those lists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie_MonsterSR Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 Seeing as it will be almost impossible to crack the top 3, who would you say is your favorite for an upset to take 4th? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubisco Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 Seeing as it will be almost impossible to crack the top 3, who would you say is your favorite for an upset to take 4th? I'd say that I'm about 90% certain that the top 4 will be some combination of James Bowie, L.D. Bell, Marcus, and The Woodlands. Those 4 will be hard to crack. I think the real question is which band will round out the top 5. Cedar Park? SFA? CTJ? Spring, who virtually nobody has seen? Who knows, maybe Spring will be incredible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewMexicoBandsman Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 You forgot two North Texas Power House - Haltom and Richland... they will definitely make finals. I'd put Haltom in bubble rather than lock, but I agree about Richland, and would also add the Woodlands to your locks Based on the past or have you seen both Haltom's and Richland's shows? I've seen both, and I wouldn't be too quick to "bubble" anyone. I also wouldn't put anyone in a lock or bubble unless I'd seen this year's show. There's too many people on here making "lists" based on how a band has done in the past or by word of mouth. I think this competition is too close to call just yet. Anyway -- GO PRIDE OF HALTOM!!! I'm proud of you no matter what! I BELIEVE! Good luck to all bands participating today. Keep the Spirit!! Yes, though not in person, cause I live in New Mexico. I haven't seen a TX event live since I lived there. But I buy the BOA SA webcasts, and keep up via youtube. I'm basing them on this year's performances, and I only call Haltom a bubble because I believe that their chances of making finals are less than 90%. I still think that it's rather likely that Haltom will be there, but I wouldn't call any band a "lock" unless I would be truly shocked if they missed finals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellopwn1 Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 CTJ is my personal pick for fifth....their show is incredibly intense and they have a great sound! Their guard is ON FIRE as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HHSBandMom225 Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 I'd say "bubbling" someone is a compliment considering how many of the schools attending aren't on either of those lists. Bubbling could be considered a compliment, but not when it comes after someone is truly complimenting a band by saying they'll make finals -- in other words, if someone says "so and so, in my opinion, will definitely make finals" and someone else quotes them and says "I wouldn't say they're a lock for finals. They're more of a bubble." <<<< that's not a compliment, IMO. Anyway, the only way I could lock a band is if I either saw their show and really liked it OR I played the obvious, which is to say there are some bands that could play tiddly-winks, three blind mice, and all around the mulberry bush --in the most simplistic fashion -- march in lines back and forth across the field and still win the whole thing....aka "Hey. They always win, so they'll win again" attitude. As hard as it is not to get into the mood of the latter, I choose the first way --that is, to actually see and enjoy the show and decide after that which I like best. I agree with what one dad said on here -- the only way to NOT make finals is to not be in the competition. That's a great way to look at it. Everyone has potential. Every band works very hard on their shows. Every band deserves to be recognized for their efforts and not to be labeled an "impossible choice for finals." So I hope ALL of the bands are able to put their best show on the field next Saturday. I hope they end their marching season feeling proud of their accomplishments. Every band should know that in the hearts of their directors, parents, and school peers, they are a LOCK for finals. GOOD LUCK TO ALL BANDS PARTICIPATING IN BOA SA!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HHSBandMom225 Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 Yes, though not in person, cause I live in New Mexico. I haven't seen a TX event live since I lived there. But I buy the BOA SA webcasts, and keep up via youtube. I'm basing them on this year's performances, and I only call Haltom a bubble because I believe that their chances of making finals are less than 90%. I still think that it's rather likely that Haltom will be there, but I wouldn't call any band a "lock" unless I would be truly shocked if they missed finals. Haltom's show has changed a bit recently. I'm sticking with my feelings from before. I simply can't put a band in a "lock" unless I've seen their show live and am in love with it. On a side note: I'm going to add my agreement with a band dad on here who made the comment that every band in the competition has the ability to make finals...if they compete, they have the chance. Good luck to ALL bands! Keep the Spirit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummerjoe Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 Bubbling could be considered a compliment, but not when it comes after someone is truly complimenting a band by saying they'll make finals -- in other words, if someone says "so and so, in my opinion, will definitely make finals" and someone else quotes them and says "I wouldn't say they're a lock for finals. They're more of a bubble." <<<< that's not a compliment, IMO. Anyway, the only way I could lock a band is if I either saw their show and really liked it OR I played the obvious, which is to say there are some bands that could play tiddly-winks, three blind mice, and all around the mulberry bush --in the most simplistic fashion -- march in lines back and forth across the field and still win the whole thing....aka "Hey. They always win, so they'll win again" attitude. As hard as it is not to get into the mood of the latter, I choose the first way --that is, to actually see and enjoy the show and decide after that which I like best. I agree with what one dad said on here -- the only way to NOT make finals is to not be in the competition. That's a great way to look at it. Everyone has potential. Every band works very hard on their shows. Every band deserves to be recognized for their efforts and not to be labeled an "impossible choice for finals." So I hope ALL of the bands are able to put their best show on the field next Saturday. I hope they end their marching season feeling proud of their accomplishments. Every band should know that in the hearts of their directors, parents, and school peers, they are a LOCK for finals. GOOD LUCK TO ALL BANDS PARTICIPATING IN BOA SA!!! I see what you're saying with the step down from lock to bubble, but I still wouldn't consider it an insult. Being on either of those lists is just a way of saying "There are some good things happening at X high school." The difference between the two lists are essentially "They've always been good" and "They have been alright, but have really stepped it up this year." Also, being called a "lock" isn't some term of endearment, and is not the equivalent of "I'm proud of you." It's simply a way for people like the ones on this website to predict who they think will win the competition. It's what we enjoy doing. It's not specific to marching band, everybody predicts the outcomes of competitions. For example, when you fill out a march madness bracket, you are essentially doing the same thing as picking "locks" and "bubbles". They do recognize everyone who attended; they call out the names of all participating bands. But essentially, that's just getting you a participation ribbon. In a lot of modern band programs, the goal isn't to just have fun or something cheesy like that. The goal is to win competitions. If you think that your favorite band is a lock rather than a bubble, tell them to prove it on the field. If they make top 5 or so, then sorry, everyone on this website is wrong. But from what we've seen, the only true locks are the four elite bands this season: Marcus, Bell, Bowie and The Woodlands. And yes, it is alright to consider past seasons for those bands because they've have always been good, and haven't had major staffing changes (with the exception of Bowie's head director tragedy, but they've proven that they can perform well in his memory). If Haltom proves that they are a true force in the band world, then next year you will see them on the list of "locks". But as of right now, they are only a bubble, which isn't even an insult, it's a compliment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abbie123 Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 Ok so all these people arguing about bubbles and locks and all... (Yes sure one person might say definitely that band is in locks and another might be ehhh probably not) Why not just wait till BOA San Antonio guys.... Just enjoy the bands, and instead of commenting on placements, can we talk about the shows? Like which show do you think stands out and what qualities it has.... This is such a hard super regional, I don't even know where to begin. I mean even the order of the top four bands is disputable... that is what makes it so exciting. Things are so close this year anything can happen... I feel like this thread is turning into some sort of high stakes gambling game, to predict what the placements of the bands are going to be.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draak Vader Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 (edited) "I feel like this thread is turning into some sort of high stakes gambling game, to predict what the placements of the bands are going to be...." Thus the actual name of the thread, "2011 BOA San Antonio, Predictions?" You could always start a thread about the quality/stand out features of the shows that will be at San Antonio or any other contest though. Edited October 30, 2011 by Draak Vader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie_MonsterSR Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 Who knows what The Woodlands show is this year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubisco Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 (edited) Who knows what The Woodlands show is this year? "Uninvited" featuring Symphony No. 7 Mvmnt. 2 by Beethoven, Uninvited by Alanis Morissette, Spices, Perfumes, Toxins! by Avner Dorman, Symphony No. 5 Mvmnt. 2 by Prokofiev, and Piano Sonata No. 1 Mvmnt. 1 by Avner Dorman. Coincidentally, both Avon and The Woodlands are doing the same Beethoven and Prokofiev pieces this year (although a little bit differently) and will go face to face in national finals. Based on the Oct. 8th Conroe videos and the Oct. 15th ISSMA regional videos, I'd say that The Woodlands has the music performance edge. But then, things have probably changed quite a bit for both bands since then. Here's a video of 3-time national champion Avon, if anyone is interested: The show starts around the 5 minute mark. Edited October 30, 2011 by Rubisco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewMexicoBandsman Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 (edited) Bubbling could be considered a compliment, but not when it comes after someone is truly complimenting a band by saying they'll make finals -- in other words, if someone says "so and so, in my opinion, will definitely make finals" and someone else quotes them and says "I wouldn't say they're a lock for finals. They're more of a bubble." <<<< that's not a compliment, IMO. Anyway, the only way I could lock a band is if I either saw their show and really liked it OR I played the obvious, which is to say there are some bands that could play tiddly-winks, three blind mice, and all around the mulberry bush --in the most simplistic fashion -- march in lines back and forth across the field and still win the whole thing....aka "Hey. They always win, so they'll win again" attitude. As hard as it is not to get into the mood of the latter, I choose the first way --that is, to actually see and enjoy the show and decide after that which I like best. I agree with what one dad said on here -- the only way to NOT make finals is to not be in the competition. That's a great way to look at it. Everyone has potential. Every band works very hard on their shows. Every band deserves to be recognized for their efforts and not to be labeled an "impossible choice for finals." So I hope ALL of the bands are able to put their best show on the field next Saturday. I hope they end their marching season feeling proud of their accomplishments. Every band should know that in the hearts of their directors, parents, and school peers, they are a LOCK for finals. GOOD LUCK TO ALL BANDS PARTICIPATING IN BOA SA!!! Considering whether a band is a lock for finals or not is not about complimenting them and/or putting them down. I think people on these forums often tend to confuse, "I consider band X to be a lock for finals," with "I really like band X." They often correspondingly confuse "I would call them a bubble," with "They aren't all that great," or "I don't like them very much." In my opinion, a band can be considered a lock for finals if, and only if, there is no conceivably likely scenario in which they don't make finals. If (god forbid,) Haltom has a bad run at prelims, and enough other bands of similar level really up there game, Haltom could very well miss finals. If one of the big four this year have a bad run, they are likely to be knocked down a number of places, but considering the level they consistently perform at, a run bad enough to knock them down more than 10 places from their typical placement seems extraordinarily unlikely. Thus Bell, the Woodlands, Bowie, and Marcus can be considered locks, because they are "locked into" a spot at finals by the consistency and competitive success of their show. A bubble band, on the other hand, is by no means a band unlikely to make finals, nor is it a band that I, or anyone else, necessarily dislikes, but simply a band which has at least some reasonable chance of being ousted from a finals slot. I typically root for bubble bands, because they have a lot more at stake, so I sometimes feel more strongly about their shows than I would for a band which can coast through prelims and doesn't have to REALLY bring it until finals. Anyway, the only way I could lock a band is if I either saw their show and really liked it OR I played the obvious, which is to say there are some bands that could play tiddly-winks, three blind mice, and all around the mulberry bush --in the most simplistic fashion -- march in lines back and forth across the field and still win the whole thing....aka "Hey. They always win, so they'll win again" attitude. As for that opinion, I disagree quite strongly. The "Band Y could always win because they always have won, and don't actually have to work for their success because they will be assumed to be successful" is a terrible fallacy, and I would be highly offended if I were a member of one of those bands. Two of the strongest bands here in New Mexico, Clovis and Mayfield, typically outplace the rest of us, (with the exception of certain TX bands who come here,) but I would never even remotely consider that it's because the judges expect them to be better. They win because in that performance, they WERE better. If a band wins all the time, it is because they consistently put the best show on the field, and not because of any judge favoritism. Were that mindset true, Reagan would still be winning because they put some incredible shows down in 03-04, Poteet would have won area D,(as they've done for god knows how many years in a row,) and Marcus would never have won state in 06. If you look at the bands at the top you NEVER see the musical or marching equivelent of Three blind mice. Have you even seen Bell's show this year? Have you even heard Marcus's? Or Bowie's(I've only heard it on my crappy laptop speakers. =() They are on top for a very good reason, and it has nothing to do with any sort of "attitude problem" amongst judges Edited October 30, 2011 by NewMexicoBandsman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummerjoe Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 (edited) Considering whether a band is a lock for finals or not is not about complimenting them and/or putting them down. I think people on these forums often tend to confuse, "I consider band X to be a lock for finals," with "I really like band X." They often correspondingly confuse "I would call them a bubble," with "They aren't all that great," or "I don't like them very much." In my opinion, a band can be considered a lock for finals if, and only if, there is no conceivably likely scenario in which they don't make finals. If (god forbid,) Haltom has a bad run at prelims, and enough other bands of similar level really up there game, Haltom could very well miss finals. If one of the big four this year have a bad run, they are likely to be knocked down a number of places, but considering the level they consistently perform at, a run bad enough to knock them down more than 10 places from their typical placement seems extraordinarily unlikely. Thus Bell, the Woodlands, Bowie, and Marcus can be considered locks, because they are "locked into" a spot at finals by the consistency and competitive success of their show. A bubble band, on the other hand, is by no means a band unlikely to make finals, nor is it a band that I, or anyone else, necessarily dislikes, but simply a band which has at least some reasonable chance of being ousted from a finals slot. I typically root for bubble bands, because they have a lot more at stake, so I sometimes feel more strongly about their shows than I would for a band which can coast through prelims and doesn't have to REALLY bring it until finals. As for that opinion, I disagree quite strongly. The "Band Y could always win because they always have won, and don't actually have to work for their success because they will be assumed to be successful" is a terrible fallacy, and I would be highly offended if I were a member of one of those bands. Two of the strongest bands here in New Mexico, Clovis and Mayfield, typically outplace the rest of us, (with the exception of certain TX bands who come here,) but I would never even remotely consider that it's because the judges expect them to be better. They win because in that performance, they WERE better. If a band wins all the time, it is because they consistently put the best show on the field, and not because of any judge favoritism. Were that mindset true, Reagan would still be winning because they put some incredible shows down in 03-04, Poteet would have won area D,(as they've done for god knows how many years in a row,) and Marcus would never have won state in 06. If you look at the bands at the top you NEVER see the musical or marching equivelent of Three blind mice. Have you even seen Bell's show this year? Have you even heard Marcus's? Or Bowie's(I've only heard it on my crappy laptop speakers. =() They are on top for a very good reason, and it has nothing to do with any sort of "attitude problem" amongst judges I completely agree with you, except for one point: I don't believe Poteet could win Area D. If I am correct, you have to first be in Area D in order to win that competition Edited October 30, 2011 by drummerjoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie_MonsterSR Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 My head is spinning from all of the discussions over what a bubble versus a lock means. Who really cares? Look at how many times its been said that every single band that will be there is a great band. It's obvious that nobody is insulting anybody, it's simply a discussion of the bands that people have heard of because they have made a name for themselves. Bands like Mansfield, Plano East, or Legacy are still in the process of making a name for themselves and therefore will not be discussed as much as Bell,Marcus, or Bowie. That doesn't mean that they aren't as talented, just that not everybody has heard of them. That being said, who has the best GE this year? I've heard of some unbelievably high scores in that category this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CentexBandKid Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 My head is spinning from all of the discussions over what a bubble versus a lock means. Who really cares? Look at how many times its been said that every single band that will be there is a great band. It's obvious that nobody is insulting anybody, it's simply a discussion of the bands that people have heard of because they have made a name for themselves. Bands like Mansfield, Plano East, or Legacy are still in the process of making a name for themselves and therefore will not be discussed as much as Bell,Marcus, or Bowie. That doesn't mean that they aren't as talented, just that not everybody has heard of them. That being said, who has the best GE this year? I've heard of some unbelievably high scores in that category this year. Oh no... not GE... the most controversial topic of them all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draak Vader Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 If you look at BOA San Antonio as a 2-day festival and celebration of achievement and not some contest where some bands are being jipped out of their money and time for showing up on Saturday only to be denied a finals spot, then it's not as big of a deal. Most bands invest in this as a 2-day educational event that includes a mixture of performing, watching other bands perform, eating out and enjoying the venue/location and doing other activities (This is even more the case for Grand Nationals, which is technically a 4-day event). Many directors know they aren't going to make finals....and some leave early knowing this (some will budget the money to return just in case, and then use the money on something else if they don't make it) but the directors that choose to stay will plan things to do with their band on Saturday until the announcement, then will stay to watch all of finals (or have separate buses for the students that want to go home and the students that want to stay and watch) should they not make the cut. Your suggestion to prerelease some of the scores is only beneficial to the small number of schools who see this as nothing more than a contest, and also ruins the spirit of the competition for everyone else at the festival. "If you didn't plan on sticking around, you're probably not ready to be here" I think is the bottom line. A passionate argument indeed, but let me take a stab at a rebuttal... Point 1: "If you look at BOA San Antonio as a 2-day festival and celebration of achievement and not some contest where some bands are being jipped out of their money and time for showing up on Saturday only to be denied a finals spot, then it's not as big of a deal." Perhaps some would disagree, but it would seem to me that a strong argument could be made that this could potentially be considered (primarily, if not exclusively) a 'two day festival' only for the 29 Friday bands (and even this is contingent on whether or not these Friday bands are required to return home due to football obligations). This argument, of course, could and would be negated if one could show that a vast majority, or at least a large number, of the Saturday prelim bands were traveling to San Antonio on Friday, ignoring their Friday school day and possible Friday night football obligations, to 'celebrate the achievement(s)' of their band brethren and then either staying in San Antonio overnight, or going home and coming back on Saturday. What would be a safe guess at that number; 29...17...12...6...1...none; a handful of San Antonio area bands, perhaps? I would be interested to know. Also, I don't believe that the word "jipped" was one that I used in my post. I think I used the word "gouge", and I've still not seen, read, or heard anything that would dissuade me from that position. Mrwood69's assertion that it's a fiscal decision on the part of BOA seems much more persuasive than anything I've seen so far, and it would be hard to overstate the importance of the countervailing fiscal concerns of any and all schools and band programs in the state of Texas at this point in time. Point 2: "Most bands invest in this as a 2-day educational event that includes a mixture of performing, watching other bands perform, eating out and enjoying the venue/location and doing other activities (This is even more the case for Grand Nationals, which is technically a 4-day event)." Regarding the assertion that, "Most bands invest in this as a 2-day educational event...", I will stand on my previous argument. Show me the evidence that a large number of Saturday bands are coming in on Friday to "watch" the Friday folks and enjoying the location and venue and I'll concede the point. Otherwise, no. As for Grand Nationals, I think that's more of an apples and oranges comparison except for, perhaps, Air Force Academy High School's BOA SA participation . Let's face it, San Antonio is mostly a TEXAS super regional. A somewhat compelling argument might be made that at Grand Nats there could be local bands at some distance from Indianapolis and, consequently, these bands could be at a competitive disadvantage at Nationals if they are going home and coming back to Indianapolis versus out of state bands that have traveled and are staying in town, but is there evidence to support this? I don't know, but for a Grand Nationals contest, I doubt it. I would suspect that a large number of those local bands are staying in the Indianapolis area as well. Also, Grand Nats is very much a national contest as opposed to a large, 'super regional' contest. Many of the bands are coming in from out of state and have blocked their entire schedules for that week, saved for an entire season and traveled long, long distances to participate. For most of these bands, it would be impossible for them to go home and come back the next day and there would be no reason for them to do so. Not so for many of the BOA SA bands. Point 3: "Many directors know they aren't going to make finals....and some leave early knowing this (some will budget the money to return just in case, and then use the money on something else if they don't make it) but the directors that choose to stay will plan things to do with their band on Saturday until the announcement, then will stay to watch all of finals (or have separate buses for the students that want to go home and the students that want to stay and watch) should they not make the cut." I agree with you and I'm sure this is true; but how many would forgo the trip back to San Antonio altogether and save their money for next year's show or other, more pressing fiduciary fiscal obligations if they knew for sure that they had no chance at finals? Perhaps none, but wouldn't it be better to let them make their own decision with all of the facts in hand? Point 4: "Your suggestion to prerelease some of the scores is only beneficial to the small number of schools who see this as nothing more than a contest, and also ruins the spirit of the competition for everyone else at the festival. "If you didn't plan on sticking around, you're probably not ready to be here" I think is the bottom line. The crux of the biscuit; whose ox is being gored here? You leap to a conclusion that doesn't necessarily follow when you suggest that the bands who would benefit from this information see this as 'nothing more than a contest'; there are many more pressing things for them to consider, a crucial one being that "money doesn't grow on trees." In addition, I didn't suggest releasing scores to the public at large, merely contacting the individual directors of the bands who are out of contention; a simple text or phone call to the 15 Friday band directors who didn't make it letting them know. How does this 'ruin the spirit of the competition' for everyone else? Does the 'spirit' of the competition rest on these bands laboring under the false hope that they may have a chance? How does providing information that could help a (your words) "small number of bands" make an informed decision become the fulcrum for the entire contest? Unless compelling evidence can be provided to the contrary, the real bottom line here seems to be, "If your prelim is scheduled on Friday and you're unwilling to come back on Saturday in blissful ignorance and spend your money, you're probably not ready to be here. Oh, and the logistics, energy, and travel expenses needed for your band, parents, equipment, et al. to get back here be da#%ed." I yield the floor... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yay!!!!clap!!! Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 CTJ = LOCK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie_MonsterSR Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Oh no... not GE... the most controversial topic of them all. That's exactly why i think it should be discussed, to me how a show makes you feel and its level of appeal are more important than its technical proficiency either musically or visually, atleast to those not judging the bands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewMexicoBandsman Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 (edited) I completely agree with you, except for one point: I don't believe Poteet could win Area D. If I am correct, you have to first be in Area D in order to win that competition Right, I did not mean Area D. I was thinking about Area D when I wrote that post, and it kind of slipped. Edited October 31, 2011 by NewMexicoBandsman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takigan Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Perhaps some would disagree, but it would seem to me that a strong argument could be made that this could potentially be considered (primarily, if not exclusively) a 'two day festival' only for the 29 Friday bands (and even this is contingent on whether or not these Friday bands are required to return home due to football obligations). This argument, of course, could and would be negated if one could show that a vast majority, or at least a large number, of the Saturday prelim bands were traveling to San Antonio on Friday, ignoring their Friday school day and possible Friday night football obligations, to 'celebrate the achievement(s)' of their band brethren and then either staying in San Antonio overnight, or going home and coming back on Saturday. What would be a safe guess at that number; 29...17...12...6...1...none; a handful of San Antonio area bands, perhaps? I would be interested to know. Having it a 2-day contest is an inconvenience for the Friday bands.....I will give you that. The idea of "watching and celebrating" of course comes secondary to the fact it's a competition. I think most bands would prefer it to be a 1-day contest purely because of financial reasons. Regarding the assertion that, "Most bands invest in this as a 2-day educational event...", I will stand on my previous argument. Show me the evidence that a large number of Saturday bands are coming in on Friday to "watch" the Friday folks and enjoying the location and venue and I'll concede the point. Otherwise, no. I mean most bands invest in this as a 2-day event because of the possibility that they will have to come in on Friday.....if you only budget for Saturday and you're given a Friday slot, you won't have the money to attend the contest. I do believe that if the contest only required you to be there 1 day, most bands would budget for it as a 1-day educational event, despite the contest/festival/event being 2 days in length. The 2-day event thing is a necessary evil, and the whole idea of it being a 2-day festival and celebration is something I would bet even MFA would admit is a way of looking at it so that they'll have a way of funding the event without losing too much money. I don't think the Finals audience would be as grand if many of the bands had learned they hadn't advanced during the previous day. Because of this, I don't think the event would be as "splendid" and energetic. I think there are a lot of people out there that would love to be able to fly out to Grand National Finals (myself included), but don't just because of the money involved. But since many of these bands are pretty much required to be there anyway, you now have an audience of 20,000 people to play to, and they're all glad to be there, regardless of the fact that they probably wouldn't be if given the financial opportunity. It's an interesting paradox (or whatever the word for it is). I think there are a lot of bands that also "wouldn't mind" coming in on Friday to "celebrate" and watch bands.....except the merits of this don't warrant skipping school and spending a whole bunch of extra money on the trip if needn't be. I will concede that while although a 2-day festival and celebration this is, and one must look at it this way to justify its cost..... it is first and foremost a competition. If it were not, then most people wouldn't bother (I think if the NFL didn't declare winners at football games, no one would show up to those games, despite how much of an experience and cultural moor attending a football game is and how enjoyable it is to view the spectacle). That said, only by seeing it as a 2-day event that you might only have to show up for 1 day of can you justify its cost. And it's certainly justifiable when viewed as such, even if you end up having to be there both days. Grand Nationals.... I'm not even going to bother. It would take forever and I don't think we would get anywhere. I will say that a Super Regional is still a contest that has some of the characteristics of a "national festival" like GN, just on a much less grand scale. Point 3: "Many directors know they aren't going to make finals....and some leave early knowing this (some will budget the money to return just in case, and then use the money on something else if they don't make it) but the directors that choose to stay will plan things to do with their band on Saturday until the announcement, then will stay to watch all of finals (or have separate buses for the students that want to go home and the students that want to stay and watch) should they not make the cut." I agree with you and I'm sure this is true; but how many would forgo the trip back to San Antonio altogether and save their money for next year's show or other, more pressing fiduciary fiscal obligations if they knew for sure that they had no chance at finals? Perhaps none, but wouldn't it be better to let them make their own decision with all of the facts in hand? Not many....but I don't see that as ample reason to prerelease the scores, changing the experience of the contest. Point 4: "Your suggestion to prerelease some of the scores is only beneficial to the small number of schools who see this as nothing more than a contest, and also ruins the spirit of the competition for everyone else at the festival. "If you didn't plan on sticking around, you're probably not ready to be here" I think is the bottom line. The crux of the biscuit; whose ox is being gored here? You leap to a conclusion that doesn't necessarily follow when you suggest that the bands who would benefit from this information see this as 'nothing more than a contest'; there are many more pressing things for them to consider, a crucial one being that "money doesn't grow on trees." In addition, I didn't suggest releasing scores to the public at large, merely contacting the individual directors of the bands who are out of contention; a simple text or phone call to the 15 Friday band directors who didn't make it letting them know. How does this 'ruin the spirit of the competition' for everyone else? Does the 'spirit' of the competition rest on these bands laboring under the false hope that they may have a chance? How does providing information that could help a (your words) "small number of bands" make an informed decision become the fulcrum for the entire contest? Unless compelling evidence can be provided to the contrary, the real bottom line here seems to be, "If your prelim is scheduled on Friday and you're unwilling to come back on Saturday in blissful ignorance and spend your money, you're probably not ready to be here. Oh, and the logistics, energy, and travel expenses needed for your band, parents, equipment, et al. to get back here be da#%ed." Basically yes. The fact that being able to attend the event is such a monumental undertaking and expensive is part of what makes the contest so exclusive and so magical. I mean the competition dues for every BOA event are $800; way more than just about any contest out there ($300-$500 is more typical of even the grandest invitationals)....that by itself speaks volumes that they're not trying to make it available to every podunkville in America. I didn't suggest releasing scores to the public at large, merely contacting the individual directors of the bands who are out of contention It's the same thing. The forums would start a thread "So who didn't advance to finals", and people would be chiming in based on what they'd heard, so the general public would end up knowing who most of them are anyway. Contacting 15 bands just in itself still means that thousands of people are going to be aware of at least a fragment of the results (the directors, the kids and parents of each particular band) before the full list is released. Having this set up will make the finals crowd smaller and diminish the general experience of the event (especially Finals, which is the end-all goal for everybody), and the incredible experience and reputation of the event is the reason why so many bands want to do these contests in the first place. And yes, I do believe that reserving the dome for 2 or more days adds in a financial commitment that requires as many people as possible to be buying tickets for both days. And I understand why this is a more reasonable argument than the one that I'm proposing. And I totally get where you're coming from. I really do....there are many bands out there that just don't have the financial capability to put together the kind of show to be competitive as well as field the additional money to travel there, eat and reside there for the extensive length of time required by the event, and the setup of the event makes it even harder for these bands. However, I don't think MFA has a responsibility to make it more accessible to them..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewMexicoBandsman Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 However, I don't think MFA has a responsibility to make it more accessible to them..... I don't actually have a strong opinion either way on the matter, but feel obliged to point out that the company does call itself Music for all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie_MonsterSR Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 I don't actually have a strong opinion either way on the matter, but feel obliged to point out that the company does call itself Music for all. The regional competitions that they hold would be where those bands who are not financially able to compete at a super-regional would compete in MFA events. So it's still for all its just at different levels of competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HHSBandMom225 Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 (edited) As for that opinion, I disagree quite strongly. The "Band Y could always win because they always have won, and don't actually have to work for their success because they will be assumed to be successful" is a terrible fallacy, and I would be highly offended if I were a member of one of those bands. Two of the strongest bands here in New Mexico, Clovis and Mayfield, typically outplace the rest of us, (with the exception of certain TX bands who come here,) but I would never even remotely consider that it's because the judges expect them to be better. They win because in that performance, they WERE better. If a band wins all the time, it is because they consistently put the best show on the field, and not because of any judge favoritism. Were that mindset true, Reagan would still be winning because they put some incredible shows down in 03-04, Poteet would have won area D,(as they've done for god knows how many years in a row,) and Marcus would never have won state in 06. If you look at the bands at the top you NEVER see the musical or marching equivelent of Three blind mice. Have you even seen Bell's show this year? Have you even heard Marcus's? Or Bowie's(I've only heard it on my crappy laptop speakers. =() They are on top for a very good reason, and it has nothing to do with any sort of "attitude problem" amongst judges I think you took me too literally. I was being sarcastic. Of course, no one feels that any band plays music that simplistic. I have seen Marcus' show, twice. I was sick when we played Bell, so I haven't seen their show. I know they play two of the songs we played last year, and I know how difficult Shostakovich is to play. I haven't had the privilege of seeing Bowie's show, yet. I congratulate them on placing 2nd in Atlanta. Nothing makes me prouder than hearing of TX bands that place in out-of-state competitions. If you read what I wrote again, you'll see that I do NOT feel like my silly, sarcastic analogy. I choose to believe that all bands have a shot. I apologize if my comment insulted someone. It was not to be taken seriously. There are people who feel as if some bands will win no matter the circumstances, but I don't feel that way. I wish nothing but the best to ALL of the bands participating in BOA SA on Friday & Saturday. Safe travel, too. I know Cedar Hill missed out on Duncanville because of bus issues. I was very sorry to hear of that. I can't imagine how disappointed they were that day. So I hope that everyone makes it safely and has no issues for BOA. Looking forward to seeing and hearing great bands! Edited October 31, 2011 by HHSBandMom225 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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