BOA General Effect Sheets

[percussioninstructor]

Someone in another topic asked: "How does GE score go up or down?"

 

 

I replied:

 

"Yeah...thats the $64,000 question aint it!! The BOA sheets weight GE as like 60% of the overall score i think...ugh...GE is all about creating "moments" both musically and visually to make the audience (and hopefully the judges) say "wow" or "oooo" and get that warm fuzzy feeling...Its a very subjective caption. One judge may love it...another may hate it...I dont think its quite as fair as BOA intended. The feeling I get; is that 60% of your score is based on a judges opinion...not necessarily how well the show was executed. So thats my rant about GE...I think ill start a new topic about it...cuz yeah...my program got hosed in GE this year...so im a little sore about it! LOL"

 

Are there any staff members out there who know the formula for a decent GE score? have you had GE problems? comments? opinions?

[Xukaniz]

I could understand 1/3 going to each Visual/Music/GE, but I guess that just makes too much sense.

[gavinrh]

its because they want to reward the more interesting and entertaining shows that may be a bit dirtier than say, a boring but really clean show...

[percussioninstructor]

its because they want to reward the more interesting and entertaining shows that may be a bit dirtier than say, a boring but really clean show...

I get that, but, isnt the whole point of competition to reward those who execute the design the best? Regardless of "artistic intent"? Maybe I'm just too much of an old schooler. lol Its like a football game where one team plays better, but the team who entertained the refs the best wins...

[aaron067]

How often do you see a band that ranks in the top 3 in both music and visual not rank within at least the top 5 overall? The musical and visual effects have to be performed accurately in order for the GE to come off. While I tend to agree with the thread, I also understand that GE is a result from both design and execution.

[Guest mpsanchez]

While I tend to agree with the thread, I also understand that GE is a result from both design and execution.

The Effect Caption is why we have bands programming some really outstanding musical and visual elements (re: Bell, BA & TW), even though it is the most subjective.

[radchad]

I get that, but, isnt the whole point of competition to reward those who execute the design the best? Regardless of "artistic intent"? Maybe I'm just too much of an old schooler. lol Its like a football game where one team plays better, but the team who entertained the refs the best wins...

 

The problem with this is that bands would always go for slow easy stuff.

There wouldn't be an diversity from show to show.

 

It would become monotonous because bands know that doing slow, easy, boring drill and music would be the bands that always win.

And if you have ever sat in the stand at a BOA competition, you will find that amongst other band students and people who are just to watch but may have never really been in band.. do not find these shows entertaining.

 

My parents were never in band, and they would rather see the bands who aren't afraid to take risk and actually do something somewhat appealing to the eye or to the ear win, opposed to the slow boring ones that make them fall asleep.

 

Now, if you take a risk and it's not very good, that's a different story.

[takigan]

In my opinion, the GE caption isn't really fair because it really has very little to do with the kids themselves and their hard work. I mean if you have a crappy, CRAPPY show but the kids still perform it well, they'll still lose to schools with awesome show concepts, even if they don't perform as welll. Perfect example is Duncanville at the Sam Houston festival this year. The band just looks amazing they way they march and they have an awesome sound, but their show was boring as crap. Musicality itself is of course part of GE, but not enough to offset the edge given by a killer concept delivered through the use of expensive props and equipment and paying top dollar for the best visionary artists that not everybody can afford.

 

But, GE is a very good caption to have. It is the reason why such great shows exist, and without it there's little incentive for the staff to give their students a powerful work of art for them to harness and make their own. I would kill to be able to perform shows as jawdropping as Bell's trilogy, or Marcus's innovative concepts. Their shows have electronics and props out the @$$ and give them an unfair advantage (easily surmountable through superb playing, but it's still an advantage), but without the promise of higher placement due to GE, these incredible shows would not exist and the students would be denied the chance to experience spectacular, grandiose works of art. Alot of schools hold back on alot of their show elements for UIL contest because they feel they'd be too liberal for the competition. I wonder how many times a school has refrained from using a cool visual or an elaborate, complex yet surreal electronic sound texture because they were afraid of losing points in UIL competition.

 

It's not about promoting or stifling art, that's not the issue. It's about giving kids the best possible experience they can have within the limits of their district's budget. Keeping band fun and constantly making them say "OMG, I LOVE this part!!!" everytime they play music, on or off the field.

Edited March 18, 2008 by takigan

[ddmwingz]

In my humble opinion, the GE caption IS fair.

 

First and foremost, in my opinion, art is about entertaining its audience as well as conveying a deeper meaning and an aesthetic beauty. Music, im sure many of us would agree, is one of the best artforms(lol, we are band kids after all). So through this thought process, is it not fair that the schools who perform shows that can make the audience sit on the edge of their seat, give them goosebumps, and go OOOOHHHHH AAHHHHHHH, should be rewarded? Something that can stir emotions like that - thats art - and it deserves to be rewarded.

 

Now, even if u agree with the above paragraph, u may be saying, "thats all well and good, but this GE was created by a drill writer/composer/etc. kids dont effect this. thats why its not fair." my response to that has many facets. first, each school gets to choose who writes their drill and music. they could always find someone who is just as talented as the schools who consistently put on good shows. also, money is often considered a barrier, but every school that has the money to pay for the best drillwriters, had to put in a lot of hardwork to raise the money to pay for it, so ppl shouldnt claim money made these shows more possible for one school than another(in real life it does, i know, but it is an issue that can be overcome). another reason is that, even if u have the best show concept, and the most spectacular drill, and the most dazzling music, if the kids do not execute it, the GE will not be there. therefore, i believe the kids DO effect GE.

 

LD BELL and Marcus. they almost always put on the most entertaining shows with some of the best GE around. why is that? because their students execute the drill and music better than nearly every other school in the nation, not because they had the coolest concept, or the best drill. if u were to take my band, and try to pull off the same show, we wouldnt execute half as well, and our GE scores would be really really bad(and we are a 4a state caliber band)

 

like i said, this is all in my opinion, and i am by no means right about this. its just what i feel. hope it made sense

 

P.S. while on the topic of GE, whichever band did Two Hearts Beat as One for their show this year-yall gave me goose bumps at the part where u had the two hearts beating. it was great!!

[mbui]

In my humble opinion, the GE caption IS fair.

 

First and foremost, in my opinion, art is about entertaining its audience as well as conveying a deeper meaning and an aesthetic beauty. Music, im sure many of us would agree, is one of the best artforms(lol, we are band kids after all). So through this thought process, is it not fair that the schools who perform shows that can make the audience sit on the edge of their seat, give them goosebumps, and go OOOOHHHHH AAHHHHHHH, should be rewarded? Something that can stir emotions like that - thats art - and it deserves to be rewarded.

 

Now, even if u agree with the above paragraph, u may be saying, "thats all well and good, but this GE was created by a drill writer/composer/etc. kids dont effect this. thats why its not fair." my response to that has many facets. first, each school gets to choose who writes their drill and music. they could always find someone who is just as talented as the schools who consistently put on good shows. also, money is often considered a barrier, but every school that has the money to pay for the best drillwriters, had to put in a lot of hardwork to raise the money to pay for it, so ppl shouldnt claim money made these shows more possible for one school than another(in real life it does, i know, but it is an issue that can be overcome). another reason is that, even if u have the best show concept, and the most spectacular drill, and the most dazzling music, if the kids do not execute it, the GE will not be there. therefore, i believe the kids DO effect GE.

 

LD BELL and Marcus. they almost always put on the most entertaining shows with some of the best GE around. why is that? because their students execute the drill and music better than nearly every other school in the nation, not because they had the coolest concept, or the best drill. if u were to take my band, and try to pull off the same show, we wouldnt execute half as well, and our GE scores would be really really bad(and we are a 4a state caliber band)

My thoughts in a nutshell. I absolutely agree with everything that you said.

 

[Xenon]

It would become monotonous because bands know that doing slow, easy, boring drill and music would be the bands that always win.

 

This is stated quite often but it just isn't true.

 

There hasn't been a single UIL 5A State Champion show since 1998 (when UIL switched to the current format) which was "slow, easy, boring drill and music".

 

1998: Westfield: Mass (anybody that would accuse Westfield of such things is nuts)

2000: LD Bell: King of Kings (Triple Crown winner)

2002: Duncanville: Dies Irae, Nessun Dorma, Polovetsian Dances (Probably one of the hardest Duncanville shows ever)

2004: LD Bell: Blue (Nobody would ever accuse Bell of being easy)

2006: Marcus: The "Choral" Reef (Did you listen to the beauty of that show? Yes, the drill was easy, but it was extremely effective and by no means boring)

 

 

 

To ddmwingz:

 

You bring up a lot of great points that are mostly spot on, but I think that you are severly downplaying the money/community support aspect. You are right that it generally doesn't matter for bands at the top or in heavily populated areas, but once you get down into the middle to small 4As and below, there is only so much blood that you can squeeze out of a turnip. It is for these bands especially where having a heavy scoring weight on design is unfair. Notice that I said "Design", not "GE".

 

 

BOA GE has two main categories; The How (Execution) and The What (Design) each of which take 50% of the total caption. And since GE comprises 66.6% of the total BOA scoresheet, that makes Design alone 33% of a band's total BOA score. This is where I think things get unfair.

 

I agree that the Execution part of BOA's GE caption is one of the most important parts of any performance and that a 33.3% weighting is reasonably appropriate for it. Many people bash UIL for not having a GE component, but what they often don't realize is that UIL's sheets actually do contain all of the Execution parts of BOA's GE caption, they just don't call it GE.

 

Now on to Design. I do agree that it should be a part of the sheets, but not nearly to the 33% extent that BOA currently has it. I think that about 10% would do nicely. I am going to justify this in a weird way, so bear with me. I believe that even in a purely Execution based judging system, it is impossible to have a Championship show that does not have a really good Design.

 

A good design will seperate you from the rest of your competition, not because a judge has a bias for a certain thing you are doing, but because a good design will display and put focus upon all of your talents all while doing what it can to hide your lackings. Without a good design you can't show off the fact that you can Execute really hard drill moves cleanly. Without a good design your trumpet feature might not shine through enough to really show the beauty of your playing. Design already has a heavy impact upon Execution scores, so why does it need a caption worth 33% all to itself?

[ddmwingz]

haha...ur right, i DID downplay the community/finance part aspect of it.

 

and u hit the part i didnt mention(it mustve slipped my mind o_O). design vs. GE. i agree almost completely w/ u on that.

[bdtenor]

Quality creates effect in my opinion. If two bands play the same show and one performs both their music and visual program cleaner, it will be more effective. Many people have already said this, but to simplify the argument:

 

Quality creates effect

 

 

and in turn; Greater quality creates greater demand. It is harder to do the "simple things" at 100% than 85%. So a cleaner show is plenty hard when performed at the upper levels of performance.

 

My opinion only