UIL 6A Area J 2025

[Toasty]

Does anyone know if any of these programs seem likely to be making the drop down to 5A in the next realignment? 

[BassBone_2024]

Profitability was not an issue.
However, here are a few other details for consideration.

If a program has a higher budget, it stands to reason that they can hire more directors, techs, etc. I have friends associated with several programs in Area J. Many of the higher budgeted groups have techs, or more than 1 tech for each section. While the lower budget groups may have only a brass and woodwind tech. This is the same concept as the student to teacher ratio in teaching terms. The more teachers, the more one-on-one time and potentially better education. 

Likewise, lower budgeted programs can have less students in private lessons where a higher budgeted program may have almost all students in private lessons. This includes the Middle School level. This equates to students get one-on-one training. You can see this also at the All-State level classical and jazz for TMEA. You will see clumps of students from more affluent schools as opposed to lower income / Title 1 schools. More higher level individual musicians will lead to higher achieving programs. 

This is all beyond the budget for props, drill and music design, etc. 

Also, Denton ISD has a proposition this year to raise taxes. Their statement is if the proposition does not pass, they will have to cut programs. They state that they would have to cut athletics and fine arts. But we all know that they will cut Fine Arts before they cut athletics. If they have to cut Assistant Directors and budgets for Denton ISD schools, that could be devastating for Area J participants within DISD. 

 

[TrenBS]

11 minutes ago, Toasty said:

Does anyone know if any of these programs seem likely to be making the drop down to 5A in the next realignment? 

Ive heard rumors about Rock Hill moving down, otherwise Im not sure, I know North is staying 5A unless McKinneyISDs agenda changes between the next few months.

Bigger question is if 7A becomes a real hypothetical, and if so what theyll do with it

[BassBone_2024]

2 minutes ago, TrenBS said:

Ive heard rumors about Rock Hill moving down, otherwise Im not sure, I know North is staying 5A unless McKinneyISDs agenda changes between the next few months.

Bigger question is if 7A becomes a real hypothetical, and if so what theyll do with it

If even 1 band drops out of Area J, UIL will almost be forced to realign. If I were a director in this Area, I would be very tempted to not compete at UIL. It's not worth the time, energy, money when there is very little opportunity for the highest success of reaching the State level.

[Toasty]

3 minutes ago, TrenBS said:

Ive heard rumors about Rock Hill moving down, otherwise Im not sure, I know North is staying 5A unless McKinneyISDs agenda changes between the next few months.

Bigger question is if 7A becomes a real hypothetical, and if so what theyll do with it

A 7A existing would most likely get rid of the LISD problem in this area, I really wish the rule was approved to add a state spot for every medalist at state in your area, that would really help people out.

[MelloMaster67]

1 hour ago, TrenBS said:

It depends on the district, but to my understanding (EVERYTHING IS SPENT AMOUNT FROM WHAT THEY EARNED. BANDS ARE NONPROFITS SO THERE IS NO PROFIT TO BE MADE HERE.):

LewisvilleISD MAIN band schools spend about $700k-$1.1 million a year, this is usually do to travel fees, equipment, show design/props, and band maintenance generally in that order

Prosper HS ballparks $500k a year

Wylie HS last year and the year before had $1m going through the program year to year, which I admit is a little concerning since that money went seemingly nowhere (million dollar bands usually indicate a major travel expense, like Nationals or a summer trip from an invitation, anyone with some clarification please do say because idk how Wylie spent a million year to year excluding the $100k a year they keep as assets as a danger fund)

Wylie East on the other hand averages $150k, which again raises a question about Wylie, not accusing them of anything it just doesnt look right to me

McKinneyISD schools range from $100k-$300k, with their new economic mission to lower fees drastically and provide better equipment/resources for the students I expect this to go up due to corporate sponsors and tax initiatives

Plano is in the same boat as Little Elm and other middle class districts, $70k-$250k a year depending on fundraising and socioeconomic factors in the areas

That covers it for Area J. Money really doesnt play a major factor until you are a  low tier state finalist level band where production value and design start to become major factors over player ability and band structure

EDIT: I say OVER player ability since the skill level individually starts to become similar at the top, and becomes more important to present your ensemble in the most favorable way to the judges

What is your source for this information?

[MelloMaster67]

1 hour ago, TrenBS said:

It depends on the district, but to my understanding (EVERYTHING IS SPENT AMOUNT FROM WHAT THEY EARNED. BANDS ARE NONPROFITS SO THERE IS NO PROFIT TO BE MADE HERE.):

LewisvilleISD MAIN band schools spend about $700k-$1.1 million a year, this is usually do to travel fees, equipment, show design/props, and band maintenance generally in that order

Prosper HS ballparks $500k a year

Wylie HS last year and the year before had $1m going through the program year to year, which I admit is a little concerning since that money went seemingly nowhere (million dollar bands usually indicate a major travel expense, like Nationals or a summer trip from an invitation, anyone with some clarification please do say because idk how Wylie spent a million year to year excluding the $100k a year they keep as assets as a danger fund)

Wylie East on the other hand averages $150k, which again raises a question about Wylie, not accusing them of anything it just doesnt look right to me

McKinneyISD schools range from $100k-$300k, with their new economic mission to lower fees drastically and provide better equipment/resources for the students I expect this to go up due to corporate sponsors and tax initiatives

Plano is in the same boat as Little Elm and other middle class districts, $70k-$250k a year depending on fundraising and socioeconomic factors in the areas

That covers it for Area J. Money really doesnt play a major factor until you are a  low tier state finalist level band where production value and design start to become major factors over player ability and band structure

EDIT: I say OVER player ability since the skill level individually starts to become similar at the top, and becomes more important to present your ensemble in the most favorable way to the judges

No, a non-profit is not required to spend every dollar each year, and in fact, it is encouraged to maintain financial reserves. The "nonprofit" label refers to an organization's tax status, which means any revenue (or "profit") must be reinvested back into the organization's mission rather than distributed to private individuals. Nonprofits often carry over funds to ensure sustainability and cover future expenses or unexpected events. 

Key points about non-profit finances

No legal requirement to spend all funds: There is no law that mandates a non-profit must deplete its funds each year. 

Can generate "profit": It is common and beneficial for non-profits to end the year with a surplus when revenue exceeds expenses. 

Reinvestment of funds: Any surplus must be used to support the organization's mission, such as for infrastructure, future programs, or staff compensation. 

Building reserves: Non-profits are encouraged to build financial reserves for long-term security and to ensure they can continue their work during lean times. Some recommend having enough reserves to cover at least three to six months of operating expenses. 

The "overhead myth": The idea that a non-profit must spend almost all its money on programs and keep overhead low is a misconception that can harm the organization's long-term health, according to Foundation Group. 

[Justabandchild]

6 minutes ago, MelloMaster67 said:

What is your source for this information?

Idk where he got it but I do know that booster club Form 990s are basically public information and you can search them on CauseIQ. I don't really recommend snooping around because it's basically like pocket-watching, but it's somewhat understandable if you're paying the band fees for your child. Usually budget discussions are held during band booster meetings for each program.

[MelloMaster67]

2 minutes ago, Justabandchild said:

Idk where he got it but I do know that booster club Form 990s are basically public information and you can search them on CauseIQ. I don't really recommend snooping around because it's basically like pocket-watching, but it's somewhat understandable if you're paying the band fees for your child. Usually budget discussions are held during band booster meetings for each program.

That makes sense, but it is still not completely transparent because funding for programs comes from multiple sources (bond funds, district funds, booster club funds, and student fees).

[BassBone_2024]

Thought of something else. Lower income families often have single parent homes or both parents work which can limit volunteers. Volunteers help everywhere from building props, to feeding kids (actually cooking as opposed to fast food/pizza) to pushing props and equipment. I see some of those bands take the field, do a warmup, stand around for 3 minutes, then perform.

While others, the performers are pushing props and equipment, putting things in place and then sprinting to get into position. 

I don't want to come across as seeming that the more affluent programs have an advantage. I also don't have an answer. But these are all factors to consider when comparing programs. 

From the above referenced budgets, you can almost go down the line by placement as well. FloMo, Hebron, Marcus, Prosper, etc. Getting down to the bottom, the Little Elms and Braswells start showing up.

Coincidence???  

[Justabandchild]

20 minutes ago, BassBone_2024 said:

Thought of something else. Lower income families often have single parent homes or both parents work which can limit volunteers. Volunteers help everywhere from building props, to feeding kids (actually cooking as opposed to fast food/pizza) to pushing props and equipment. I see some of those bands take the field, do a warmup, stand around for 3 minutes, then perform.

While others, the performers are pushing props and equipment, putting things in place and then sprinting to get into position. 

I don't want to come across as seeming that the more affluent programs have an advantage. I also don't have an answer. But these are all factors to consider when comparing programs. 

From the above referenced budgets, you can almost go down the line by placement as well. FloMo, Hebron, Marcus, Prosper, etc. Getting down to the bottom, the Little Elms and Braswells start showing up.

Coincidence???  

It's definitely a trend and it certainly makes an impact directly and indirectly on a band program. Yes there are programs who succeed despite their Title 1 status (like North Shore, Dawson, Dickinson, and Del Rio for example), but everything from how much time parents are able to put into these programs, to likely having fewer directors at the middle school level, to being not being able to invite clinicians as often or subsidize private lessons for their students, etc.. As a result fewer students tend to stay in band going into high school, the pool of support is smaller, and the quality of instruction suffers, not because the instructors aren't good, but there are likely fewer teachers and they are under-resourced. Their priorities become getting kids to stay in band rather than doing honor band or going to the state marching band contest. It's what comes with local property taxes funding the School districts. The unfortunate reality is not every student gets an equal opportunity in their k-12 education for this reason. It's why supporting the Arts state-wide, supporting football in this state, paying teachers more, and pushing for a lower student to teacher ratio is super important. It is very tough for educators at these schools. Lol sorry for soap-boxing.

[BassBone_2024]

No apologies for soap-boxing. 
This just adds to the piling on that some of these schools have the odds stacked against the before they ever step onto the practice concrete. 

[dfwhorn]

9 hours ago, Toasty said:

Does anyone know if any of these programs seem likely to be making the drop down to 5A in the next realignment? 

I think that the biggest contenders for dropping to 5A would be Rock Hill and McKinney boyd, that mostly depends on the cutoff probably; I could also see LE or Guyer possibly dropping depending on that, specifically LE due to a stagnant/decreasing enrollment. The biggest guys that might jump MIGHT be North, Walnut Grove, and maybe to an extent Reedy (although they are probably at their limit due to lower enrollments at Memorial and PC that are probably being used in the large district.)

[BandNerd07]

On 10/28/2025 at 8:13 PM, dfwhorn said:

I think that the biggest contenders for dropping to 5A would be Rock Hill and McKinney boyd, that mostly depends on the cutoff probably; I could also see LE or Guyer possibly dropping depending on that, specifically LE due to a stagnant/decreasing enrollment. The biggest guys that might jump MIGHT be North, Walnut Grove, and maybe to an extent Reedy (although they are probably at their limit due to lower enrollments at Memorial and PC that are probably being used in the large district.)

About realignment: Rock Hill, Guyer and Little Elm are staying 6A. As you may know, today is snapshot day which is the day every school turns their enrollment numbers in to the UIL for the rext realignment. Guyer has 2567, Rock Hill has 2533, and Little Elm has 2444, making them a lock to stay in 6A. Still waiting on McKinney Boyd to turn their numbers in. Furthermore, Wakeland is right on the bubble as they turned in 2245. If the actually move up this area is going to be so insane. Just the thought of Wakeland or Prosper missing state is unreal...

[BassBone_2024]

Do you have the numbers on Prosper, since they opened the new school? Or, how do you find the numbers?

[Thatonedoublereed14]

3 minutes ago, BassBone_2024 said:

Do you have the numbers on Prosper, since they opened the new school?

Prosper has 2,605 (6a), Rock Hill has 2,533 (6a), Walnut Grove has 2,476 (More than likely 6a), and Richland will have 1,796 (5a). 

[TrenBS]

On 10/31/2025 at 1:34 PM, BandNerd07 said:

About realignment: Rock Hill, Guyer and Little Elm are staying 6A. As you may know, today is snapshot day which is the day every school turns their enrollment numbers in to the UIL for the rext realignment. Guyer has 2567, Rock Hill has 2533, and Little Elm has 2444, making them a lock to stay in 6A. Still waiting on McKinney Boyd to turn their numbers in. Furthermore, Wakeland is right on the bubble as they turned in 2245. If the actually move up this area is going to be so insane. Just the thought of Wakeland or Prosper missing state is unreal...

McKinney tends to keep with the status quo in terms of their alignment, so unless they deliberately make Boyd 5A I dont see any major changes going forward, and will have official numbers on the 5th.

Also congratulations to EVERY state qualifier here making finals! Balance wise for DFW bands this is atrocious and raises a lot of questions, but a testament to the skill of Prosper and the Lewisville schools for what they showcased yesterday

[JazzRun]

1 hour ago, TrenBS said:

McKinney tends to keep with the status quo in terms of their alignment, so unless they deliberately make Boyd 5A I dont see any major changes going forward, and will have official numbers on the 5th.

Also congratulations to EVERY state qualifier here making finals! Balance wise for DFW bands this is atrocious and raises a lot of questions, but a testament to the skill of Prosper and the Lewisville schools for what they showcased yesterday

Completely agree. Area J…where the J stands for Just brutal

[Toasty]

On 11/4/2025 at 6:03 AM, TrenBS said:

McKinney tends to keep with the status quo in terms of their alignment, so unless they deliberately make Boyd 5A I dont see any major changes going forward, and will have official numbers on the 5th.

Also congratulations to EVERY state qualifier here making finals! Balance wise for DFW bands this is atrocious and raises a lot of questions, but a testament to the skill of Prosper and the Lewisville schools for what they showcased yesterday

Have we got any update on the McKinney schools numbers yet? Just trying to see where McKinney north will end up, since last year they had 2300 but year before barely made the 5A cut.

[TrenBS]

7 hours ago, Toasty said:

Have we got any update on the McKinney schools numbers yet? Just trying to see where McKinney north will end up, since last year they had 2300 but year before barely made the 5A cut.

Theyre still discussing it since there has to be major rezoning changes, which consists of taking hundreds AWAY from North, but have to do it without upsetting parents or negatively effecting the community (or whatever, its not like its a new high school without a grandfather system)

What I could see happening is another school being constructed in the TRUE North McKinney area (Trinity Falls) Since North is projected to be at 4,350 members by 2030, which obviously wont happen.

For the short term though, expect Boyd and High to remain 6A and North to be the 5A school, 2028 or 2030 alignment is where I could see McKinneyISD going through major changes with alignment or new schools.