Area E Bands

[Bobbyishere]

Does anyone actually truly believe that Cy-Creek had more challenging music and played it at a higher level than Cy-Falls, Cy-Fair, Seven Lakes, and Morton Ranch at finals? Does anyone truly believe that Seven Lakes deserved 18th in prelims? Or LAST in finals... Very disappointed in this judgeing panel this year.

[Astros]

Feel your pain. Two years ago One judge knocked CyFalls out. They dropped from 3rd in prelims to 5th in finals missing state by one point. This is an imperfect system in an imperfect world.

[kingtbone]

Does anyone actually truly believe that Cy-Creek had more challenging music and played it at a higher level than Cy-Falls, Cy-Fair, Seven Lakes, and Morton Ranch at finals? Does anyone truly believe that Seven Lakes deserved 18th in prelims? Or LAST in finals... Very disappointed in this judgeing panel this year.

The judge probably played based clarinet and was hypnoticed by the 10 cycreek players !

[king_leonides]

Honestly, I am not surprised, and not even mad. I am disappointed, but honestly, nothing that transpires in the judge's box surprises me anymore. I have come to accept that there is inherent unfairness in this activity. So I am not shocked whenever anything extremely bad - or good - occurs to an organization I support. I just greet decisions with blithe cynicism, and simply move on with my life. 

 

There are significant discrepancies between music judge 2, and judges 1 and 3, particularly in the middle of the table. Judge 2 rated Cy Woods as a top-ten band, but Judge 1 rated them as next to last. Conversely, judge 2 rated Jersey Village as 16, whereas judge 1 rates then as top 7. 

 

We see this type of inconsistencies year after year. Honestly, I have come to expect it. I sometimes wonder how judges at the same show, watching the same bands, with the same scoring sheets and rubrics, can come up with such divergent evaluations. Perhaps there are significant differences in the background, expectations, and level of experience of the judges. I personally do not believe that judges are inept or biased; most are more than competent to do their jobs. 

But competency and consistency are two different things. 

 

I strongly believe that UIL should make judging panels public, instead of just assigning them numbers. At a minimum, that would allow us to call their decision-making into question. 

[king_leonides]

Consider this: 

 

Should UIL make the names of their judges public? DCI does: 

 

http://www.dci.org/scores/recap/recap_window.cfm?event=e05ad798-9c73-4884-9955-58b9a5ffdfc0

 

If you get a really bad score - or a really good score - you know exactly who to thank. Or who not to thank. 

 

I am 100% for transparency and accountability, for anyone in professional positions. You want to know the name of your child's teacher, your child's daughter, and god forbid, your child's criminal lawyer (or judge.) Why can't we know the names of of  the persons who adjudicate our children's marching bands? 

[LKendrick]

Consider this: 

 

Should UIL make the names of their judges public? DCI does: 

 

http://www.dci.org/scores/recap/recap_window.cfm?event=e05ad798-9c73-4884-9955-58b9a5ffdfc0

 

If you get a really bad score - or a really good score - you know exactly who to thank. Or who not to thank. 

 

I am 100% for transparency and accountability, for anyone in professional positions. You want to know the name of your child's teacher, your child's daughter, and god forbid, your child's criminal lawyer (or judge.) Why can't we know the names of of  the persons who adjudicate our children's marching bands? 

 

Are you serious?  They do, and the information is presented in ALL sorts of ways.  They announce them at contests, post them on the UIL Area websites, and have them on the recaps along with what they judged.  I just went to google, found each site for each area, and every one of them has the list of judges, and most what they were judging.  There's not some conspiracy going on to hide who the judges are, you're just not paying attention or looking.  Because it's all there for us.  

 

For instance, since this is area E, from that webpage, and even though I already recognized most of their names from their incredible work at some of the best high school programs from the past, I went to google and got a little information for each one:

 

 

Area E 6A Judges:

 

Dick Clardy - Scott Coulson - David Kirkley - Brian Merrill - Tom Shine

 

Dick Clardy - http://www.tmea.org/about/past-presidents/dick-clardy

 

Scott Coulson was the director at Poteet high school when they were one of the, if not the premier 4A band in the state and has 3 state championships, multiple medals, and many many many many many other extremely impressive things on his resume.  

 

David Kirkley is director of bands at Boswell high school, consistent 4A state marching contest appearances and many other accolades.  

 

Brian Marrill - http://www.smu.edu/Meadows/AreasOfStudy/Music/Faculty/MerrillBrian

 

Tom Shine - Tom Shine has recently retired after a 40-year career as a Texas high school band director. The last 30 years were spent as Director of Bands for the Duncanville ISD. During his tenure, his bands won three state marching championships and were named 5A TMEA Honor Band three times. Duncanville ISD middle school bands earned an additional four TMEA Honor Band awards during that time. His DHS Wind Ensemble never earned lower than a superior rating and twice performed for the Midwest International Band and Orchestra Clinic and once for the Music Educators National Conference in Indianapolis. The Duncanville band program is one of the few worldwide to hold the Sudler Flag of Honor and the Sudler Shield of Honor from the John Philip Sousa Foundation for exemplary band programs.

During his 30 years in Duncanville, he commissioned numerous original works and transcriptions for band. Shine served as the Region 20 TMEA Band Chair for over 25 years and was on the TMAA Executive Board for seven years. He was honored by the Texas Bandmasters Association with its Meritorious Achievement Award in 2006 and named Bandmaster of the Year in 2010. In retirement, he continues to serve as a clinician for numerous schools in Texas and an adjudicator for UIL and invitational contests.

 

So........you tell me.   Qualified enough?  I don't know who you think's judging these contests, a bunch of music major freshman?  I'd like to think these guys know what they're doing, and there's not much better you could get.    

[king_leonides]

Are you serious?  They do, and the information is presented in ALL sorts of ways.  They announce them at contests, post them on the UIL Area websites, and have them on the recaps along with what they judged.  I just went to google, found each site for each area, and every one of them has the list of judges, and most what they were judging.  There's not some conspiracy going on to hide who the judges are, you're just not paying attention or looking.  Because it's all there for us.  

 

For instance, since this is area E, from that webpage, and even though I already recognized most of their names from their incredible work at some of the best high school programs from the past, I went to google and got a little information for each one:

 

 

Area E 6A Judges:

 

Dick Clardy - Scott Coulson - David Kirkley - Brian Merrill - Tom Shine

 

Dick Clardy - http://www.tmea.org/about/past-presidents/dick-clardy

 

Scott Coulson was the director at Poteet high school when they were one of the, if not the premier 4A band in the state and has 3 state championships, multiple medals, and many many many many many other extremely impressive things on his resume.  

 

David Kirkley is director of bands at Boswell high school, consistent 4A state marching contest appearances and many other accolades.  

 

Brian Marrill - http://www.smu.edu/Meadows/AreasOfStudy/Music/Faculty/MerrillBrian

 

Tom Shine - Tom Shine has recently retired after a 40-year career as a Texas high school band director. The last 30 years were spent as Director of Bands for the Duncanville ISD. During his tenure, his bands won three state marching championships and were named 5A TMEA Honor Band three times. Duncanville ISD middle school bands earned an additional four TMEA Honor Band awards during that time. His DHS Wind Ensemble never earned lower than a superior rating and twice performed for the Midwest International Band and Orchestra Clinic and once for the Music Educators National Conference in Indianapolis. The Duncanville band program is one of the few worldwide to hold the Sudler Flag of Honor and the Sudler Shield of Honor from the John Philip Sousa Foundation for exemplary band programs.

During his 30 years in Duncanville, he commissioned numerous original works and transcriptions for band. Shine served as the Region 20 TMEA Band Chair for over 25 years and was on the TMAA Executive Board for seven years. He was honored by the Texas Bandmasters Association with its Meritorious Achievement Award in 2006 and named Bandmaster of the Year in 2010. In retirement, he continues to serve as a clinician for numerous schools in Texas and an adjudicator for UIL and invitational contests.

 

So........you tell me.   Qualified enough?  I don't know who you think's judging these contests, a bunch of music major freshman?  I'd like to think these guys know what they're doing, and there's not much better you could get.    

 

 

But they do not post the names of the judges next to the scores. On the score sheet, they only list J1, J2, J3, J4, and J5. Here is the specific example from Area E this year: 

 

http://uilforms.com/regions/13/AREA%20MARCHING/2014-2015/2014%20RESULTS%20-%20Area%20E%206A.pdf

 

So who was the individual that was J2, and was responsible for these scores? We will never know that detail. 

 

That is the specific information I am looking for. That is what DCI publishes - but UIL chooses not to. 

[LKendrick]

But they do not post the names of the judges next to the scores. On the score sheet, they only list J1, J2, J3, J4, and J5. Here is the specific example from Area E this year: 

 

http://uilforms.com/regions/13/AREA%20MARCHING/2014-2015/2014%20RESULTS%20-%20Area%20E%206A.pdf

 

So who was the individual that was J2, and was responsible for these scores? We will never know that detail. 

 

That is the specific information I am looking for. That is what DCI publishes - but UIL chooses not to. 

 

I know that they are on the copies of the recaps that the directors received in their packets, I remember looking at the recaps from both years my band did area in high school and all that information was on there, they're not trying to hide anything.  And I don't understand what the big deal is, I think all of those judges are qualified enough and we should trust their judging, regardless of which one they might have judged.  That specific information might not be posted online, but is at least on the copies of the sheets that directors receive in their packets after prelims/finals and they are probably told during director verification after prelims before finals.  

[Astros]

IF these highly qualified judges did a lousy judging area E, then the whole system needs your be changed. I suggest using the same model used in the youth soccer program FFPS (fun, fair, position, soccer) In this soccer league no score is kept. Nobody gets a trophy. Everyone is a winner. No judges will be needed.

[kingtbone]

Let me start by saying I was not able to attend finals but saw all bands in prelims. I really feel they got the top six bands correct and any of the six could of easily went to state with a few diffenrt scores. I do think 7 lakes  was judged pretty hard and thought they should of been placed higher but thats just my opinion . Being a brass player ,  I like a  " Power" show more  than a concert band on the field show . They were one of three bands that actually pushed me back and say WOW !

 

Judgeing is very subjective and I dont know how they do it , After about six bands my brain is mush. Looking at the sheets consistency is what you look for and it appears J2 scored every band in the finals  100 points higher than prelims. Where  all bands that much better in finals ?

 

I would sugest a diffent judge panel for finals so they can judge with  fresh thoughts and no prelim bias.

 

Also the regions really needs to advance some more bands to area  so we can qualify 5 or even 6 bands to state.Looks like we are the only area/region that gave out 3's in the whole state and also a bunch of 2's. Watch videos of the other area qualifiers and you will see our disquallified bands are better or as good as any of the lesser bands in other areas.

 

Congrats to all the bands for a very enjoyable year and good luck to all at BOA and State

[king_leonides]

Let me start by saying I was not able to attend finals but saw all bands in prelims. I really feel they got the top six bands correct and any of the six could of easily went to state with a few diffenrt scores. I do think 7 lakes  was judged pretty hard and thought they should of been placed higher but thats just my opinion . Being a brass player ,  I like a  " Power" show more  than a concert band on the field show . They were one of three bands that actually pushed me back and say WOW !

 

Judgeing is very subjective and I dont know how they do it , After about six bands my brain is mush. Looking at the sheets consistency is what you look for and it appears J2 scored every band in the finals  100 points higher than prelims. Where  all bands that much better in finals ?

 

I would sugest a diffent judge panel for finals so they can judge with  fresh thoughts and no prelim bias.

 

Also the regions really needs to advance some more bands to area  so we can qualify 5 or even 6 bands to state.Looks like we are the only area/region that gave out 3's in the whole state and also a bunch of 2's. Watch videos of the other area qualifiers and you will see our disquallified bands are better or as good as any of the lesser bands in other areas.

 

Congrats to all the bands for a very enjoyable year and good luck to all at BOA and State

 

It is unlikely that more bands from area E will be appearing in area anytime soon. This will only happen if: 

 

1) HISD and Alief get their acts together, and start producing 1s. 

 

or 

 

2) Area E is redistricted to include more regions from other areas. 

 

Marching music programs in HISD and AISD have completely tanked. Sorry, that is the case. Here are the scores, if you have doubts: 

 

http://www.uilforms.com/regions/23/RESULTS/MARCHING/2014-2015/Reg%2023%20Marching%20Results%20-%20Oct%2021%202014.htm

 

Nine bands from region 23 failed to advance. Maybe that is a fair assessment, but the obvious question is "Why?" HISD is the state's largest school district, and only one band from its high schools advanced to area. That was Westside, who finished dead last at area. HISD hangs like a millstone around the necks of the band in this region, and it is the fundamental reason why only 3-4 bands advance from this area. (Area G, by contrast, routinely advances 7-8 bands.) 

 

Honestly, the music program in HISD is a train wreck, so the only via option above is #2. Area alignment is badly needed, and this is just another reason why. 

[kingtbone]

there are only 6  ..6a schools in hisd last time I cheacked

[Astros]

In general high school marching at top level is all about $$$$. That is why the accomplishment of CFISD the last 8 years is impressive. The per student KISD received from the state is much higher than CFID under the formula the dispersed funds.

[Baredex]

I have been trying to not talk about how Langham didn't make state until way after it happened so it didn't seem like i was really mad, but i would just like to congratulate Cy falls, Clements, Austin, and Cy fair for making state. Cy fair is definitely on the rise by making state in 2012 and making 14th place at state this year. Cy falls has redeemed themselves by making state this year after missing it in 2012. Austin making state the first time since nearly a decade, and Clements making a consistent return to state. All these bands deserved to go to state, but i also think that seven lakes and Langham should have made state also. Langham made 4th in prelims, but barely missed 4th in finals. It is completely unfair that only 4 band from area e get to go to state. other areas send 7-8 bands to state. Bands in area e have to stay just because most of the school in area e don't make 1's, and i think it is a completely messed up way to qualify bands to the state level and should be changed. Do you honestly think that Langham and seven lakes are not state level bands. the uil system is complete bull.

[king_leonides]

I have been trying to not talk about how Langham didn't make state until way after it happened so it didn't seem like i was really mad, but i would just like to congratulate Cy falls, Clements, Austin, and Cy fair for making state. Cy fair is definitely on the rise by making state in 2012 and making 14th place at state this year. Cy falls has redeemed themselves by making state this year after missing it in 2012. Austin making state the first time since nearly a decade, and Clements making a consistent return to state. All these bands deserved to go to state, but i also think that seven lakes and Langham should have made state also. Langham made 4th in prelims, but barely missed 4th in finals. It is completely unfair that only 4 band from area e get to go to state. other areas send 7-8 bands to state. Bands in area e have to stay just because most of the school in area e don't make 1's, and i think it is a completely messed up way to qualify bands to the state level and should be changed. Do you honestly think that Langham and seven lakes are not state level bands. the uil system is complete bull.

 

 

[Bobbyishere]

I would just like to point out (not trying to start anything) but I do find it interesting how different the judges at state viewed area E bands than the judges at area. Cy-Fair barely made 4th place taking the last State spot and scored significantly higher than all other area E bands. I just wonder how Seven Lakes, Morton Ranch, and Langham Creek would have compared at state.

[LKendrick]

Unfortunately, some bands will always get left out, that's just how it works.  I do think a consistent amount of bands for each area would be a good idea, but regardless, there's always that one band that gets left out.  It's part of the way things go, whether they take 1 band or 8.  If you look at who beat them, can you objectively say that they shouldn't have?  It sucks some times, I was in the band that was the last one out my senior year, but I watch today at who beat us, and I can see why they did.  

 

And as far as the CY Fair jumping up, it's not Area, it's over a week later, there's still time to improve, and it sounds like they had a great run.  3 of the bloggers had them in finals.  

[Baredex]

if only HISD bands didn't suck so much. HISD has 7 6a schools and only ONE school made it to area. the potential for more bands to go to state is there, but schools just aren't makings 1's.

[king_leonides]

if only HISD bands didn't suck so much. HISD has 10+ 6a schools and only ONE school made it to area. the potential for more bands to go to state is there, but schools just aren't makings 1's.

 

HISD has that many high school, but they are not all 6A. I believe they have 7 6A schools; the rest are 5A and 4A. 

 

But I agree with your point. HISD - the state's largest school district - should produce more than 1 band at the 6A area competition. That is a testament to exactly how badly music education has deteriorated in that school district. It is shameful and embarrassing.