mindfulmusician Posted November 20, 2005 Report Share Posted November 20, 2005 Ok, I have a question that I've been trying to figure out. When I tried this out on the piano, it sounded like I got the effect down right, but I'm not really sure. In a hit (a long note chord that's played REALLY loud, usually at a hold), usually the chord changes slightly at the end. It sounds like a common change is adding a major third somehow. Now, is this change made by inverting the chord, by adding a third at the top (it seems like you can usually hear the mellophones and trumpets clearly play a third higher), by doing both, or is it something different? I was just wondering. Any other commentary would be appreciated. - mindfulmusician Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortisimo Posted November 20, 2005 Report Share Posted November 20, 2005 It's common for the first trumpets or horns to go up to the root of the chord, and since generally the first are playing the top note, it is often the fifth. So, they jump from the fifth to the root above that, and so really it's a perfect fourth between the two notes. Hope that answers your question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindfulmusician Posted November 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2005 I see...any other techniques that are common? Is there anything else that you can share? Not just Fortissimo, but ANYONE. I want this topic to be a market of musical ideas. A bit idealistic, I admit, but I think that everyone here would like to learn a bit more about music and composing itself. - mindfulmusician Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortisimo Posted November 20, 2005 Report Share Posted November 20, 2005 Lol, well, it's 3 in the morning here, so I'm not suprised I'm the only one around. Not like there's a huge amount of people who compose anywas.... but yeah... I sometimes like to have them go up to what is sometimes refered to as the "color" not eof the chord, but I think that sounds fruity, so i jsut say the most important note in the chord. Deciding the most important note depends on A)the type of chord, and what is happening in the music. For example, if you have a chord, say, a sus4 that resolves to a major, you might would want them to go up to the Major 3rd of the chord in a higher octave to emphasize. If however, you went from one major chord to another, you would want to play the root to emphasize the root's position change. Or, if you have say a minor chord that you change into an augmented chord (like, when your building into something intense) you would want them to go up to the augmented 5th in the higher octave in order to emphasize the chord change. Same thing with diminshed chords. Oh, and never underestimate the inverse of this technique; having only the high voice play at first and then impact with the low. Although, I would use said technique sparingly. Anyways.... you may also want to have the first go up, and and use them to create a whole different chord, and then you can even split the voices underneath them to fill up the new chord. Like, you could start with a basic perfect 5 chord (say, C5) and then have the high voices nail an up octave minor 3rd (in this instance, an Eb) and then have the mid and low voices add a minor 3rd as well. This can be used for transitions as well. There are also more unorthodox techniques; for example, in Blood Hail and Fire, I have a transition where the fist go up in a series. It starts out with them on the root on fairly low ocatve. Then, they jump up an octave and a semi tone (up to the minor 2nd an octave up), some hold it and some jump to the root pitch an octave above than, and finally the rest go one helf step up. So, it goes (numbers indicate octave) 5C->6C#->7C->7C#. Well... that's a little out there, and it makes a very very dissonant effect. But yeah... There's some bits of wisdom, I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindfulmusician Posted November 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2005 Thanks. That helps out a lot. And remember, nearly every great musician was unconventional in some way, so don't feel ashamed. And, with a title like Blood, Hail and Fire, I think that some "breaking of the rules" is needed. - mm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortisimo Posted November 20, 2005 Report Share Posted November 20, 2005 Lol, I agree. And you're welcome. If you have any other questions, I'll do my best to help out, but right now I gotta go to bed; I'm dog tired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindfulmusician Posted November 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2005 Does anyone have any suggestions on how to unify a piece of music? I usually have very good melodic ideas, but they sometimes seem hard to connect into a flowing piece of music. I know people go about composing differently, so does anyone here start by writing a motif, or do you sketch out your general chord progression, or what? I just want to hear some other opinions on how people start writing, because I figure that we could all learn a lot from each other. - mm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortisimo Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 Hmm.... I usually have a verfy broad idea of what I want to do in a piece... then I audiate in my head what I think I want it to sound like, then I take my best shot at what the different chords I heard were, then I put it down in the computer and listen to it. Then, I might tweak it, or leave it as is, and then I just build off of that and write linearly (AKA horizantally) and I just put what I think should sound good. But to connect different ideas in your music... well, I like to use cymbal effects and buildups for transitions into intense sections and chord modulation to flip into not so intense sections. Or you can even just slap full band rests in, or break you established patterns down into an insanely complex chord progression which chances are almost no one will be able to understand, and just end up on the chord of the section you are transferring into. But I guess I really write by ear. Or mind. Or w/e. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindfulmusician Posted November 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 Anyone know of any good cadences (I am referring to chord progressions, not percussion - though those are good, too). So, far, I know the simple ones, like the perfect (V-I), plagal (IV-I), etc, etc. I've also "discovered" a few by just experimenting. However, I would like to learn more; a good cadence might just be the spice I need for my "musical dish." - mm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arundo Posted November 26, 2005 Report Share Posted November 26, 2005 some like to call it the pickerdy 3rd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindfulmusician Posted November 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2005 some like to call it the pickerdy 3rd. From what I've researched, the picardy 3rd is primarily a baroque technique, and hardly anyone uses it anymore. Does anyone know if it has any presence, or SHOULD have any presence in modern music today? - mm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortisimo Posted November 27, 2005 Report Share Posted November 27, 2005 Wtf is a Pickerdy 3rd? I'm not much for knowing the names of cadences, But I do enjoy throwing a nice sus resolve every once in a while; you know, sus4->Major->sus2->Major, or some alteration of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindfulmusician Posted November 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2005 A picardy third is when you end a piece that is in the minor mode with a major chord - it was used a lot in the Baroque period, so you'll hear it sometimes in the music of Bach. Anyway, the whole reasoning is because back in the day, a major third was much easier to tune (esp. on keyboard instruments and such) than a than a minor third. However, in this day and age, if you try to use the technique on modern instruments (esp. on keyboarding with an equal tuning temperament), it loses some of its power. It gave a great feeling of resolution when you played a piece entirely in the minor key, with little or no major chords, and then ended the piece with a nice, rich major chord. However, it seems that the technique is not as present in modern music today (or any music after the baroque period, for that matter), and so I was asking if anyone knew if this is still done, or if it should still be done today. - mm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Band Of Champions Posted November 28, 2005 Report Share Posted November 28, 2005 Dang, this topic has only been discussed by 2 people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindfulmusician Posted November 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2005 3 people have had discussion on this topic - Fortissimo, mindfulmusician, and arundo. 4, including you, Band of Champions. And, the reason that many people haven't responded is because there don't seem to be many people that dabble in composing. It feels kind of lonely. - mm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortisimo Posted November 28, 2005 Report Share Posted November 28, 2005 Lol, less competition. Man, I would love to write shows for bands.. like, on the side as sort of a paid hobby... if I hit it big I would totally take a dump on Key Poulan's porch. I just might anyways! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindfulmusician Posted November 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2005 Lol, less competition. Man, I would love to write shows for bands.. like, on the side as sort of a paid hobby... if I hit it big I would totally take a dump on Key Poulan's porch. I just might anyways! That's pretty mean...I mean, even if I hit it big, I don't think I could ever take a crap on someone's porch. On the subject of composing, my roomate knows me so well...he got me a Johann Sebastian Bach ACTION FIGURE! Hilarious...I LOVE it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortisimo Posted November 28, 2005 Report Share Posted November 28, 2005 Look at that guy and tell me you would not defecate all over his property. Man, I hate his music! And still people pay way to much for a single season's license for it! Ah well... LMFAO! An action figure? That's new... Bach ownz; his music is amazing, especially the Art of Fugue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindfulmusician Posted November 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2005 Look at that guy and tell me you would not defecate all over his property. Man, I hate his music! And still people pay way to much for a single season's license for it! Ah well... LMFAO! An action figure? That's new... Bach ownz; his music is amazing, especially the Art of Fugue. lol...well, if he's extremely pompous, I would probably join you...but that's another story. Yeah, a Bach action figure...SO AWESOME! It's pretty hilarious. Hey, what's your opinion on Higginbotham, Saucedo, or Whitacre (I know he's not a marching band composer, but many of his works are integrated into shows - Water Train, Noisy Wheels of Joy, i thank You God for This Most Amazing Day, etc)? Also, did you teach yourself everything you know about music theory, or do you have a friend/family member who knows much about music? And, is there anyway that you could help me and twizzlaar out in obtaining some music notation software? I mean, I think we could REALLY benefit from better software than Finale NotePad. Anyway, where does Key Poulan live anyway? lol... - mm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Band Of Champions Posted November 30, 2005 Report Share Posted November 30, 2005 Some people like different music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortisimo Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 lol...well, if he's extremely pompous, I would probably join you...but that's another story. Yeah, a Bach action figure...SO AWESOME! It's pretty hilarious. Hey, what's your opinion on Higginbotham, Saucedo, or Whitacre (I know he's not a marching band composer, but many of his works are integrated into shows - Water Train, Noisy Wheels of Joy, i thank You God for This Most Amazing Day, etc)? Also, did you teach yourself everything you know about music theory, or do you have a friend/family member who knows much about music? And, is there anyway that you could help me and twizzlaar out in obtaining some music notation software? I mean, I think we could REALLY benefit from better software than Finale NotePad. Anyway, where does Key Poulan live anyway? lol... - mm Bach was a genius, plain and simple. I have never heard any of thier music, I'm afraid. I taught myself. Well, if you could get a way to transfer it, I could hook you up with FL Studio and Edirol Orchdestral... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbui Posted December 7, 2005 Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 It's all about establishing your identity. Just because someone has their own style and they like to repeat the concept does not make them less of a musician. Since you're dogging on Key Poulan, you might as well do the same to Richard Saucedo and Mark Higginbotham. Sit down, close your eyes and listen to any Carmel HS, IN, Kennesaw Mountain HS, GA, or Cavaliers show back-to-back. You can tell that they were all written and arranged by Saucedo. Same goes with Higginbotham with Haltom HS 2004, Winston Churchill HS 2002 & Spring HS 2000. I don't mind Key Poulan's original compositions as much as I don't mind Higginbotham and Saucedo's. IMO, they are arguable three of the best arrangers/composers in the activity. What I'm more impressed with in Poulan are his musical arrangements...especially his scoring for the Santa Clara Vanguard since 2003. Love his arrangement of Rimsky-Korsakov's 'Scheherazade' in 2004, Wojciech Kilar's 'Orawa for Orchestra', Jeff Beal's 'One Man Show' from the Pollock soundtrack, and Richard Danielpour's 'Anima Mundi' in 2003, and Shostakovich's 12th Symphony this past year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortisimo Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 It's all about establishing your identity.Just because someone has their own style and they like to repeat the concept does not make them less of a musician. Since you're dogging on Key Poulan, you might as well do the same to Richard Saucedo and Mark Higginbotham. Sit down, close your eyes and listen to any Carmel HS, IN, Kennesaw Mountain HS, GA, or Cavaliers show back-to-back. You can tell that they were all written and arranged by Saucedo. Same goes with Higginbotham with Haltom HS 2004, Winston Churchill HS 2002 & Spring HS 2000. I don't mind Key Poulan's original compositions as much as I don't mind Higginbotham and Saucedo's. IMO, they are arguable three of the best arrangers/composers in the activity. What I'm more impressed with in Poulan are his musical arrangements...especially his scoring for the Santa Clara Vanguard since 2003. Love his arrangement of Rimsky-Korsakov's 'Scheherazade' in 2004, Wojciech Kilar's 'Orawa for Orchestra', Jeff Beal's 'One Man Show' from the Pollock soundtrack, and Richard Danielpour's 'Anima Mundi' in 2003, and Shostakovich's 12th Symphony this past year. No, you don't understand, his chord progressions are often so similar that it's tough to tell his original shows apart. That discredits him to a huge extent in my point of view. I'm afraid I am unfamiliar with those two. I have performed 2 key Poulan shows and heard many others, but these other two I have had little contact with. But what I get from what you are saying is that there is more than one person selling subpar product for premium prices. It's simply that I am only aware of Poulan that I am dogging on him. Psh, a good arranger maybe.. but beyond that... I mean, come on. I do see a certain level of aptness in his arrangments in this context. However, not to insult arrangers out there, but I would say that the prestige of arranging versus original composition is miniscule. But that's only my opinion. And what's with everyoen doing Shostakovich pieces, but no one doing his Opus 110a!? It's an amazing song, and one of his most important works; he originally wrote it as his suicide note in a sense, but Stalin lost power before he got the chance to carry it out. It is written for a chamber symphony, but I believe it could be turned into a powerful, as well as technical piece of marching music. IT would be challenging, though.... definetly... http://www.epitonic.com/files/reg/songs/mp...o_(Attacca).mp3 <-- the faster movement http://www.epitonic.com/files/reg/songs/mp...10a_(Largo).mp3 <--- the slower Just put a fake email address in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_sharp Posted December 26, 2005 Report Share Posted December 26, 2005 Actually, I'd love to learn more about Aaron Guidry. I love his style of arranging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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