Marcus 2010: Illuminaries

[bluebellballer]

What did you think about Marcus' 2010 show at Area, Super Regionals, and State?

[kdnblue142]

What did you think about Marcus' 2010 show at Area, Super Regionals, and State?

I only got to see them at the Super Regionals....it was just fantastic. I always look forward to seeing what Marcus has 'up their sleeve' and am never disappointed. As a volunteer at the super regional, their props are certainly a 'challenge' to say the least especially this year...but I have to say, everyone with this band is always very friendly and very respectful of the rules, volunteers, and members from other bands. I have nothing but praise for this program! Good luck tomorrow at State!!!

[bchorn]

What's the name of the overture they start with? I owned a CD with this overture back in the 90's but I can't seem to remember its name.

[takigan]

The Vienna Philharmonic Fanfare by Strauss.

[ThaximusPrime]

I'm sorry...am I simply the only person in Texas (or rather out of Texas since I now live in Washington, DC) that thinks that Marcus is the most overrated band in the state? Do they have skill....yes. Are they great...no. There are three things that set a great band apart from the rest. Music, visual, and the level of difficulty of the two previously mentioned categories. In order to be a great band, you can't rely just on your music. Marcus has done this for years. They march extremely easy shows and pair it with excellent music. If I just wanted to hear music, I would go to their band concerts. I attend Texas marching competitions to be stimulated by the largest concentration of the best marching bands in the USA. I cherished my time in high school when I was competing against area bands like L.D. Bell, Duncanville, Haltom, Richland, Hebron, Berkner, Coppell, as well as the southern Texas bands, like Churchill, Reagan, Westfield, Spring, Westlake, The Woodlands, and James Bowie (wish their was a bigger distinction between the James Bowie and Bowie high schools). I hate that a simple band with great music has infiltrated to the top ranks of the Texas powerhouse bands.

 

I used to be in tune with what Marcus had to offer. I first became a fan of the Marcus band program several years back when they did their "Under the Sea" program. I thought it was a little too cutesy, but it was very clean and the music was phenomenal. But again, their drill was incredibly simple. You can only hide behind lobster claws, starfish, charging seahorses and giant clams for so long. And I didn't even mention a giant ladybug and the huge lilies from the following year's show, "Botanika."

 

Maybe DCI is to blame for all this hatred towards Marcus. DCI shows what truly is the gold standard of marching competitions. I would like to think that this somehow trickles down and directly affects the level of high school bands strive to achieve. I actually prefer high school band to DCI, but I feel the judging in DCI is very accurate. High school marching judges seem to be all over the place when you see the individual scores.

 

Now that I think of it, maybe it isn't DCI that is to blame. Maybe it is because I am a huge fan of the L.D. Bell program. As the years have gone by the Bell program has broken away from marching the same show over and over and over again. But it seems by chance that they passed all that repetition on over to the Marcus band. The year that Bell performed their first dark show "The Remaining," was the same year that Marcus did "Under the Sea." I looked at Bell and saw a band that was doing something very different. Of course, the next year they had one of their best programs to date "Transcendents."

 

Marcus's show this year was different, breaking away slightly from the same type of show they have been performing for the past 5 years. Very dark for them...bravo. But still nothing compared to other highly ranked bands, especially this years Bell show, "In Honor."

 

I realize I will be chastised for this from almost everyone that reads this. I just hope there is at least one other voice besides mine on this brilliant site that thinks that things should have turned out differently this year.

 

To end on a positive note, good luck to the 4 Texas bands competing in Indy. I remember being incredibly proud the year that 6 of the finalist bands at Nationals hailed from the Lone Star State. Here is to Texas band programs being the best in the country!

[RedJoker25]

I'm sorry...am I simply the only person in Texas (or rather out of Texas since I now live in Washington, DC) that thinks that Marcus is the most overrated band in the state? Do they have skill....yes. Are they great...no. There are three things that set a great band apart from the rest. Music, visual, and the level of difficulty of the two previously mentioned categories. In order to be a great band, you can't rely just on your music. Marcus has done this for years. They march extremely easy shows and pair it with excellent music. If I just wanted to hear music, I would go to their band concerts. I attend Texas marching competitions to be stimulated by the largest concentration of the best marching bands in the USA. I cherished my time in high school when I was competing against area bands like L.D. Bell, Duncanville, Haltom, Richland, Hebron, Berkner, Coppell, as well as the southern Texas bands, like Churchill, Reagan, Westfield, Spring, Westlake, The Woodlands, and James Bowie (wish their was a bigger distinction between the James Bowie and Bowie high schools). I hate that a simple band with great music has infiltrated to the top ranks of the Texas powerhouse bands.

 

That's exactly how I feel. I don't deny that the top groups have talent (some bands would blast through everything or be out of step throughout their whole show), but as a person who has seen several giant prop-filled shows, I think that those giant props take away from what UIL Marching Band is about. G.E's fantastic for entertainment and from what I hear, BOA, but when it comes to technical judging which is what I think UIL's about, they really should be a bit more focused on not selling themselves short or spending money on props that take up half the field. They may have the skills to pull off a demanding show, but they rarely (if ever) try.

 

That being said, congrats to Marcus for another fine showing and state championship.

Edited November 3, 2010 by RedJoker25

[ThaximusPrime]

That's exactly how I feel. I don't deny that the top groups have talent, but as a person who has seen several giant prop-filled shows, I think that those giant props take away from what UIL is about. G.E's fantastic for entertainment and from what I hear, BOA, but when it comes to technical judging which is what I think UIL's about, they really should be a bit more focused on not selling themselves short. They may have the skills to pull off a demanding show, but they rarely (if ever) try.

 

That being said, congrats to Marcus for another fine showing and state championship.

 

I actually don't mind the props. Props can add to a show as long as you are not relying on them to be your whole show. Marching band is theatrical, props or not. Color and a few props enhances the show, but when it comes down to it, it is marching band. There are two main elements, music and marching. A good band needs to play well and march well simultaneously. A great band needs to play difficult music well, and march difficult drill well simultaneously. That, for now, is something that Marcus simply cannot do.

 

I dare them next year to prove me wrong.

[rpd]

I only got to see two bands this past weekend, Pflugerville and Marcus; and I was unimpressed by Marcus this year as well. When I saw them at BOA SA, the only thing I could think of was when they were going to reach something more than a Metzo Forte. Maybe it was my seat, which was sadly on the 15 because that is where my old band was. Or maybe it's because I currently march in band that puts an emphasis on power to make up for our size. It was a clean and impressive show, but it wasn't enjoyable. Except when they played Vivaldi's "Four Season", being one of my favorite symphonies, I nerded out pretty hard.

[ThaximusPrime]

I only got to see two bands this past weekend, Pflugerville and Marcus; and I was unimpressed by Marcus this year as well. When I saw them at BOA SA, the only thing I could think of was when they were going to reach something more than a Metzo Forte. Maybe it was my seat, which was sadly on the 15 because that is where my old band was. Or maybe it's because I currently march in band that puts an emphasis on power to make up for our size. It was a clean and impressive show, but it wasn't enjoyable. Except when they played Vivaldi's "Four Season", being one of my favorite symphonies, I nerded out pretty hard.

 

I completely agree with your opinion on their dynamics, or lack there of. I don't have to have a band that blows my ears out, but complex dynamics are needed to pull off a successful show, especially from a band that is very theatrical anyway.

[qwerty1]

meh

Edited November 4, 2010 by qwerty1

[one2think]

I think the whole differing in opinions is based off of the separation in theories of what should marching band be?

 

marching, or music based?

 

Strengths.

------------

IMO bell had a very difficult visual show, with very exposed lines, and shapes executed solidly, but some left to be cleaned.

 

IMO marcus had a very difficult music show, with very exposed melodies, and features that took a lot of previous training (and guts) to play.

 

Weaknesses

--------------

IMO bell had simple music to play. There were difficult runs in there that were executed solidly, however, most melodies and rhythms were simple whole, half, quarter note music.

 

IMO marcus had simple drill. Some exposed, some not so exposed. I enjoyed seeing their use of halftime marching, and their tempo was up amongst the top tempos of contests. They did not stretch their step sizes though. Many steps were in the 8-5 range.

 

The prop issue

-----------------

I can't see how marcus' props helped or hurted their visual score. The props were in the back of the field, there was no interaction between the props and the band. The only thing it could have helped was GE score at BOA. I watched Coppell (for instance) and their props seemed the most distracting because they were the most moved and interacted with with the band.

 

Simultaneous Responsibility

--------------------------------

Marching and Playing at the same time basically. I think this is where bell was hurt the most. They marched hard drill that actually hurt and affected the way they sounded (when you can hear them because of the too loud sound effects and synths, but that's a whole other argument). marcus had easier drill that was able to show off their playing prowess.

 

Could you imagine attempting to play vivaldi, while marching 4-5? Impossible.

 

My opinion on bell shows (take it or leave it)

-----------------------------

I just think it's musical theatre via marching band and chorale music.

 

 

In conclusion, do I think Marcus is a great band? Yes I do. That's what is so frustrating. They have more talent/money/resources than just about any band in the country. It's time they break out of their shell and prove that they can pull off a different (more difficult?) kind of show.

 

hey, if it ain't broke, why fix it? As soon as marcus begins running into competition, i'm sure they will begin morphing and evolving. 2007 the hardest visual they had seemed to be leaning back and forth, and this year they have some very intense body movements while playing difficult music.

[whitewing09]

I think Marcus' peak show was 07. I think that would have been their best year at GNat's.

 

I guess it just comes down to what type of band you prefer.

 

Marcus is about reallly clean difficult music and easy drill. It's like a wind symphony concert on the field. They receive so many compliments for their refined controlled sound.

 

Bell on the other hand focuses on having emotionally intriguing shows and they sacrifice this controlled sound to provide the emotional playing required to utilized their show to the fullest.

 

I happen to like Bell more because they step outside the limits of music and marching to really entertain the audience.

 

Sorry I didn't mean to just those two as an example, but I think it's a perfect contrast.

[bluebellraider]

This is way too funny. A bunch of people that has no idea what they're talking about trashing on Marcus and Bell. HAHAHAHA this is some great entertainment. Both bands are great. Lets just enjoy and appreciate what they do because they are both "great" bands. Obviously, the judges know about marching and music wayyyy more than most of us do so let them do the judging while we enjoy the shows. Trying to sound like a professional on these forums makes me laugh because, no offense to those who posted, i doubt that you guys know enough about musical concepts to start criticizing these amazing bands. For example... the Four Seasons by Vivaldi is not s SYMPHONY... its a concerto.... I apologize if im wrong but im guessing that we're bunch of high school kids or post high school people that only had high school band training trying to sound like we're a judge on a Bands of America Commenting tapes... Anyways... keep fighting because i am loving this... haha

[qwerty1]

This is way too funny. A bunch of people that has no idea what they're talking about trashing on Marcus and Bell. HAHAHAHA this is some great entertainment. Both bands are great. Lets just enjoy and appreciate what they do because they are both "great" bands. Obviously, the judges know about marching and music wayyyy more than most of us do so let them do the judging while we enjoy the shows. Trying to sound like a professional on these forums makes me laugh because, no offense to those who posted, i doubt that you guys know enough about musical concepts to start criticizing these amazing bands. For example... the Four Seasons by Vivaldi is not s SYMPHONY... its a concerto.... I apologize if im wrong but im guessing that we're bunch of high school kids or post high school people that only had high school band training trying to sound like we're a judge on a Bands of America Commenting tapes... Anyways... keep fighting because i am loving this... haha

 

You know what? I'm going to have to agree. I regretted my post soon afterwards.

[ThaximusPrime]

This is way too funny. A bunch of people that has no idea what they're talking about trashing on Marcus and Bell. HAHAHAHA this is some great entertainment. Both bands are great. Lets just enjoy and appreciate what they do because they are both "great" bands. Obviously, the judges know about marching and music wayyyy more than most of us do so let them do the judging while we enjoy the shows. Trying to sound like a professional on these forums makes me laugh because, no offense to those who posted, i doubt that you guys know enough about musical concepts to start criticizing these amazing bands. For example... the Four Seasons by Vivaldi is not s SYMPHONY... its a concerto.... I apologize if im wrong but im guessing that we're bunch of high school kids or post high school people that only had high school band training trying to sound like we're a judge on a Bands of America Commenting tapes... Anyways... keep fighting because i am loving this... haha

 

I do believe that this would be the case for most people. But for myself, I have a music degree from the University of Houston (i.e. Texas's band director factory), and I marched with the Blue Coats for two years. I am an assistant director at a high school in the Washington, DC area (as well as being the marching director based on my experience in high school and in drum corp).

 

Part of being in the marching community is that it is just that...a community. The best part of being in a community is the fact that you can have a controlled debate without intentionally hurting people's feelings. While my post may have seemed to come from some irate marching fanatic that only enjoyed the shows produced by L.D. Bell., that is definitely not the case. I was entertained by the Marcus show, but was not pleased with their placement. I wasn't pleased by a lot of bands placements, at several of the Texas competitions. And I am pretty sure that will carry on to Nationals. My main frustration is best said by the person above. Marcus has the most resources available to it and has talented instructors and students alike. The fact that they are such an established name and are unwilling to do anything different is the cause of most of my frustration. I was that way with Bell for the longest time. I will continue to watch and support any band program that is willing to get out there and do a good job, no matter who it is. But just as a parent looking at their child, you become frustrated when they do not realize their full potential; that goes for all bands, especially Marcus and Bell. Lets hope next year we will see two shows that are groundbreaking and new.

 

I am enjoying the conversation, but I really need to do something else today. lol.

 

Here is something we can all enjoy while we contemplate our next thoughts on this ongoing debate between Marcus and L.D.Bell.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veLZcJQFJs0...=1&index=37

[one2think]

You know what? I'm going to have to agree. I regretted my post soon afterwards.

 

agreed. I apologize if it sounded like I was bashing anyone, we should appreciate both for the qualities they bring and excel in. The last few years have been the most intriguing between the two bands as they grew to polar opposites.

[Joeyz]

To say that Marcus is a program more fitted for BOA than UIL seems backwards, and quite obviously incorrect, beeing that they've been consistently more successful in UIL than in BOA. While I agree with finding props disagreable, I only find fault in it when the band uses it to distract from their band technique or easy drill. Marcus has neither, and therefore I find there props nothing but a very extravagant way to incorporate spots for their members who don't earn spots. I would also like to add that, while you COULD make the argument that their props are a weasley way to earn GE points in BOA, the two visual judges at UIL are specified very specifically as MARCHING judges, and therefore are not affected by prop effects. Just because you were too easily distracted by the props to notice marcu's pristine technique and difficult marching responsibilties beneath music far more challenging than most other bands does not mean that the judges were simiarly distracted.

 

 

This reply was not exclusively for you, RedJoker, but more broadly to anyone faulting Marcus for their props.

That's exactly how I feel. I don't deny that the top groups have talent (some bands would blast through everything or be out of step throughout their whole show), but as a person who has seen several giant prop-filled shows, I think that those giant props take away from what UIL Marching Band is about. G.E's fantastic for entertainment and from what I hear, BOA, but when it comes to technical judging which is what I think UIL's about, they really should be a bit more focused on not selling themselves short or spending money on props that take up half the field. They may have the skills to pull off a demanding show, but they rarely (if ever) try.

 

That being said, congrats to Marcus for another fine showing and state championship.

[Joeyz]

I'm sorry, are you saying that Marcus's double tongueing is easier than anything Bell or Duncanville did? Perhaps they weren't traditionally marching while doing all of it, but did that visual look easy to do all the while? I sure didn't think so. And I look down to see, in their fifth movement, the trumpets singing out difficult triplet runs at 176 with huge backwards step, managing to keep the form in tact and the music incredible. All the while, I see Bell, who has very difficult marching sets, and very difficult musical excerpts, but never at the same time. Their high brass has crazy hard sets while resting, mean while their clarients have incredible runs with tiny, easy sets. I don;t think you were actually watching the shows if you think Marcus's show was easy.

I actually don't mind the props. Props can add to a show as long as you are not relying on them to be your whole show. Marching band is theatrical, props or not. Color and a few props enhances the show, but when it comes down to it, it is marching band. There are two main elements, music and marching. A good band needs to play well and march well simultaneously. A great band needs to play difficult music well, and march difficult drill well simultaneously. That, for now, is something that Marcus simply cannot do.

 

I dare them next year to prove me wrong.

[whitewing09]

This is way too funny. A bunch of people that has no idea what they're talking about trashing on Marcus and Bell. HAHAHAHA this is some great entertainment. Both bands are great. Lets just enjoy and appreciate what they do because they are both "great" bands. Obviously, the judges know about marching and music wayyyy more than most of us do so let them do the judging while we enjoy the shows. Trying to sound like a professional on these forums makes me laugh because, no offense to those who posted, i doubt that you guys know enough about musical concepts to start criticizing these amazing bands. For example... the Four Seasons by Vivaldi is not s SYMPHONY... its a concerto.... I apologize if im wrong but im guessing that we're bunch of high school kids or post high school people that only had high school band training trying to sound like we're a judge on a Bands of America Commenting tapes... Anyways... keep fighting because i am loving this... haha

 

You do realize that this forum is just a bunch of people sharing their opinions and that is exactly what we're doing.

 

I don't try to act like I'm a professional. I just comment on things the way they seems to me and I'm sure that is how everyone comments.

 

I still enjoy both shows and I enjoy every marching show that I've seen; however, that doesn't mean I still can't have an opinion of them.

 

If that symphony comment was towards me, you took my opinion WAY too seriously. I was trying to convey the fact that Marcus' music is more prevalent on a concert stage than on the field, not that their music is purely from a symphony.

Edited November 4, 2010 by whitewing09

[drummerjoe]

Ok, Marcus's drill may have been easier than Bell's, but if was CLEAN. That drill that they marched was better than some of the Drum Corps shows I've seen. (None of the major corps, so don't freak out on me.)

 

And honestly, I'd be willing to argue that Bell is overrated. Their props were incredibly distracting simply because they were trying to be discreet about something rather large. They didn't add much effect anyways. And also, the some of the easy parts in their drill were not performed as well as the difficult parts.

[drummerjoe]

I'm sorry, are you saying that Marcus's double tongueing is easier than anything Bell or Duncanville did? Perhaps they weren't traditionally marching while doing all of it, but did that visual look easy to do all the while? I sure didn't think so. And I look down to see, in their fifth movement, the trumpets singing out difficult triplet runs at 176 with huge backwards step, managing to keep the form in tact and the music incredible. All the while, I see Bell, who has very difficult marching sets, and very difficult musical excerpts, but never at the same time. Their high brass has crazy hard sets while resting, mean while their clarients have incredible runs with tiny, easy sets. I don;t think you were actually watching the shows if you think Marcus's show was easy.

 

First off, I could go through Bell's show and describe all the difficult parts in their show. Actually, I could do that for any show, so stop complaining. Second off, just because you have made these past two comments, I have lost some respect for Marcus High School.

 

Oh, and marching is always more difficult than visuals, just saying.

Edited November 4, 2010 by drummerjoe

[Joeyz]

I don't see a reason to lose respect for Marcus because of something I've said. It's not as if I represent them somehow, I just find many comments on here to be unfair to them. And I never said Bell's show wasn't difficult, because it obviously is. I've loved their band for years and years, but I personally think it's ignorant to say their show is without a doubt more difficult than Marcus, because I saw parts in their show this weekend that were equally as difficult as Bell's difficult. And marching is not ALWAYS more difficult than visuals. I could possibly agree that difficut marching is more respectable than difficult visuals, but if you think marching is always more difficult, then I'd venture to say you just haven't done hard visuals.

 

Again, it's ridiculous to lose respect for them based on a bunch of opinions of people online. It's quite nonsensical.

First off, I could go through Bell's show and describe all the difficult parts in their show. Actually, I could do that for any show, so stop complaining. Second off, just because you have made these past two comments, I have lost some respect for Marcus High School.

 

Oh, and marching is always more difficult than visuals, just saying.

[selby]

My main frustration is best said by the person above. Marcus has the most resources available to it and has talented instructors and students alike. The fact that they are such an established name and are unwilling to do anything different is the cause of most of my frustration. I was that way with Bell for the longest time. I will continue to watch and support any band program that is willing to get out there and do a good job, no matter who it is. But just as a parent looking at their child, you become frustrated when they do not realize their full potential; that goes for all bands, especially Marcus and Bell. Lets hope next year we will see two shows that are groundbreaking and new.

 

This. To me, this is the most upsetting thing about Marcus' program. Their shows for quite a few years now, have relied on music, more than marching (don't get me wrong, they do both well, but at different levels), and shows with a theatrical feel, especially with the large props. But their shows are starting to feel tired and seem very repetitive, both in concept and performance. Obviously judges at UIL and BOA disagree, however it would be very refreshing to see them try something new and break out of their mold.

[one2think]

First off, I could go through Bell's show and describe all the difficult parts in their show. Actually, I could do that for any show, so stop complaining. Second off, just because you have made these past two comments, I have lost some respect for Marcus High School.

 

Oh, and marching is always more difficult than visuals, just saying.

 

I don't know why you would lose any respect. I have heard from many people that their director is crazy about all members not posting anything online under any circumstance whatsoever. I can't say this person is or is not from marcus, but their comments shouldn't affect how someone views a band.

[Joeyz]

Obviously I'm a Marcus fan, but I still whole heartedly agree with this. It's the reason I really liked their show last year above most others - because it seemed, to me, less simplistic. One thing I don't like about them is their painfully simple themes, and last years wasn't so much. Also, I thought their props from last year were ugly and didnt contribute to the show - so I didn't even see them as a factor

This. To me, this is the most upsetting thing about Marcus' program. Their shows for quite a few years now, have relied on music, more than marching (don't get me wrong, they do both well, but at different levels), and shows with a theatrical feel, especially with the large props. But their shows are starting to feel tired and seem very repetitive, both in concept and performance. Obviously judges at UIL and BOA disagree, however it would be very refreshing to see them try something new and break out of their mold.