Serardian Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 So, reading some of the recent "JUDGE X HATED US! WE SHOULD HAVE WON OMG" posts got me thinking. People always get angry and blameful whenever contest results come out and they didn't do as well as they thought or hoped. Do you think there's more that goes on in judging than objectively scoring how a band performs at that moment? I think politics exists, no matter how much we try to turn a blind eye to it. Certain bands have reputations, certain bands don't. As far as it making a significant difference in scoring and placements at competitions, I'm not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitewing09 Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 yes it is a factor, but i dont think people should say that they should have beat another band and they only lost cuz the other band has more of a reputation, cuz it doesnt always have to do with the reputation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaoticOrder Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 (edited) I do believe there is a subconscious bias present in almost all competitions, though I am not quite as certain if there is a political factor. Nonetheless, for either case it is difficult to determine the degree of influence it has on a particular competition. I imagine familiarity with each band is directly related to this degree of influence. With only 7-12 minutes to judge a great deal in regard to the quality of a band, it is likely inevitable that the subconscious will play some sort of role in determining a score relative to other bands. In this case, I define political influence as deliberate influencing of a score. As for bias, I define it as subconscious influence of a score. I would expect that a great amount of the time, people put too much blame on the judges, confusing political influence with subconscious bias. In some instances, I would imagine that subconscious bias is present enough to possibly affect the placement of a band. However, the scores will almost always reflect the general order of quality of bands on that particular day. Its up for grabs as to how many judges deliberately place bands in relation to other bands. But, I do not think they can get away with much, in light of the fact that it would look astonishingly odd if one judge's scores were completely contrary to the other scores. Then again, judges have different opinions on what is good and what is bad. I think that may also be confused with a political factor as well. All in all, I do think that bands generally get the score they deserve, give or take a place or two. But people need to stop worrying so much about placement and more about the performance itself. You could debate forever about what place a band should have gotten. Politics and biases aren't going away any time soon. If work is put forth toward the performance, and a complete mastery of integration of musical and visual elements is demonstrated, you will get what you deserve. If work is put forth toward the score, a lack of understanding of the performance is present, and it will reflect a score that is able to be tampered with. Then again, maybe I think too high of judges, and they will really go that low to "keep bands in their place" or whatever. One can only hope that is not the case. I do believe that judges rarely "hate" bands, however. Basically, I think if your score is subject to such influences to begin with, politics/biases are the least of your worries. Shrug. Just put on a good show. Edited October 23, 2006 by ChaoticOrder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
get0verit Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 Politics have been and always will be a factor. The marching arts are way too subjective for scores/placements to represent where a band "should" be. Saying otherwise is hopeful, naive optimism. It's sad when students, who are meant to be educated in music (not scores, placements, etc.) see the very evident political factor in the activity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegis Fang Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 I think there should be a cheer-o-meter. The bands with the loudest applause get to move on... wouldn't that be controversial... lmao :-p *i'm kidding btw... even though it would be funny * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HashBrownJM Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 I think there should be a cheer-o-meter. The bands with the loudest applause get to move on... wouldn't that be controversial... lmao :-p *i'm kidding btw... even though it would be funny * Audience response affecting GE, perhaps? But on that note, don't we already have it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 No. I think DCA may have something like that, but I'm not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 I think if a judge can't decide between two bands, he's going to give one the benefit of the doubt. That's why you need to make yourself obviously better than the competition, make something standout. Same with auditions and whatever else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbrih13 Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 Band and politics is like worse than actual politics. a lot of drum major auditions are rigged, and band votes get rigged, its sad, and pisses me off a lot, but there is nothing i can do about it, but try to out smart the system, and get the upper hand, without having to sellout or be a kiss **** to the directors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serardian Posted October 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 Band and politics is like worse than actual politics. a lot of drum major auditions are rigged, and band votes get rigged, its sad, and pisses me off a lot, but there is nothing i can do about it, but try to out smart the system, and get the upper hand, without having to sellout or be a kiss **** to the directors. I don't know about "rigged," per se, but I do think band directors have an idea of who they want to be DM way before the auditions. It's alot easier to suck up to a band director than it is to suck up to a judge at BOA or whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbrih13 Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 I agree. I hate when people try to blame the judges because they didnt get the place they thought they think they should have. They give u what they think u should have, regardless of how u are, and what band you repersent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 I think it's a lot worse in DCI though. As the season progresses, there's more and more pressure to keep corps "slotted" beneath corps that have been consistantly beating them. If you want to jump, it's best to do it early on. There aren't enough competitions in marching band to have that kind of slotting effect though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcindseven Posted October 29, 2006 Report Share Posted October 29, 2006 SERIOUSLY! WE GOT SCREWED YESTERDAY UGH. I dunno what the judges saw but whatever. They could NOT have been watching performances Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumbythebeach Posted October 29, 2006 Report Share Posted October 29, 2006 well there is obvious politics, if you look at the scores. UIL is the worst about it. 2 years ago at state, we got 11, 12, 9, 13, & 29. mmmhmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hebrontuba08 Posted October 29, 2006 Report Share Posted October 29, 2006 I think it's a lot worse in DCI though. As the season progresses, there's more and more pressure to keep corps "slotted" beneath corps that have been consistantly beating them. If you want to jump, it's best to do it early on. yeah, even though i havent gotten to march yet, ive seen that kind of thing happen a lot in drum corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggbeater Posted October 29, 2006 Report Share Posted October 29, 2006 UIL judging = consistent inconsistency BOA judging = consistent scoring and justification for it ps. I'm not a BOA fanboy just an observer of the marching band contest scene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitewing09 Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 i hate UIL ahh ok yesterday at area we did crappy in prelims and scored 6th place. we did better in finals and got 9th place i mean ya other bands could have done better the second time around to. but even a band that didnt deserve ones beat us. and theyre music happened to be the type the judges liked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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