natertater21000 Posted November 9, 2022 Report Share Posted November 9, 2022 38 minutes ago, mmbandfan said: 7 of the 14 finalist schools this year did not exist in 1998, btw. Vandegrift (2009), Cedar Ridge (2008), Vista Ridge (2003), Flower Mound (1999), Hebron (1999), CTJ (2008), and Ronald Reagan (1999) Just goes to show the insane amount of population growth so many Texas suburbs have been seeing in the last 20 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bancl Posted November 9, 2022 Popular Post Report Share Posted November 9, 2022 On 11/8/2022 at 3:26 PM, BandDad4 said: I know finals is still going on, but speaking with the kids, some band parents across a few bands that did not make it into finals. Some of them are starting to wonder what is the point of SABOA and State if its the same bands year and year out. Bias, money, and juding inconsistancy is starting to build up. Considering programs rising and falling as well as some that have chosen not to attend one of the San Antonio shows because of Grand Nats, there are only 5 programs by my count that have been both 6A SMC and SASR finalists every year since 2015 (excluding the COVID year): Regan, Vandegrift, Keller, Marcus, and Hebron. To say that it's the same bands year in and year out is simply not factual. Miyazuu, 1998-2018, BandDad4 and 1 other 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Hobbs Posted November 9, 2022 Report Share Posted November 9, 2022 So I noticed there were no top half/bottom half shifts this year. Last year Marcus went from 7th to 3rd and CTJ went from 5th to 8th but everyone stayed within their respective half this year like with BOA contests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsstephenyo Posted November 9, 2022 Report Share Posted November 9, 2022 3 minutes ago, Dallas Hobbs said: So I noticed there were no top half/bottom half shifts this year. Last year Marcus went from 7th to 3rd and CTJ went from 5th to 8th but everyone stayed within their respective half this year like with BOA contests. I wanna say it felt like that, too. I didn't attend the SMBC finals but at Super Regionals, TWHS, Reagan, Hebron, Vandegrift, and Vista were kind of a cut above the rest. Dallas Hobbs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josephbandfan Posted November 9, 2022 Report Share Posted November 9, 2022 8 minutes ago, Dallas Hobbs said: So I noticed there were no top half/bottom half shifts this year. Last year Marcus went from 7th to 3rd and CTJ went from 5th to 8th but everyone stayed within their respective half this year like with BOA contests. They didn’t do the bottom half/top half split previously so that could be a factor towards it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlastFromThePast Posted November 10, 2022 Report Share Posted November 10, 2022 2 hours ago, Efrin said: Correct. And this is a perfect example of how the ordinal scoring system can (intentionally) produce a different champion than a "highest total" scoring system. Hebron had the higher total score (6,883 vs. 6,858) but 5 of the 7 judges ranked Vandegrift higher. Pretty sure UIL would tell you that this is a feature, not a bug. Yep. Mapping each judge's score to an ordinal before adding them together introduces statistically random "noise" into the total score for each band. Perhaps this is what makes UIL results more surprising/unpredictable than other contests -- the element of randomness. Maybe this approach is meant to counter some of the subjectiveness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubisco Posted November 10, 2022 Report Share Posted November 10, 2022 Wow! Vandegrift with the upset here. (I'm just dropping back in now that my election obsession is subsiding. 😄) This has really been a surprisingly competitive season at the very top. Ultimately, I think it's a healthy thing to have a lot of bands at a similar level of awesomeness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BandFan59 Posted November 10, 2022 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2022 4 hours ago, Dallas Hobbs said: So I noticed there were no top half/bottom half shifts this year. Last year Marcus went from 7th to 3rd and CTJ went from 5th to 8th but everyone stayed within their respective half this year like with BOA contests. This is likely an effect of UIL implementing the top half-bottom half split. Looking at the finals recap last year you could see there was a lot more range in the ordinals bands received from the judges while this year, top half bands were almost exclusively ranked between 1-7 and bottom half bands 8-14. Probably something we should expect to see in the future as well, just seems to be a natural outcome of the split. BandDad4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Hobbs Posted November 10, 2022 Report Share Posted November 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Rubisco said: Wow! Vandegrift with the upset here. (I'm just dropping back in now that my election obsession is subsiding. 😄) This has really been a surprisingly competitive season at the very top. Ultimately, I think it's a healthy thing to have a lot of bands at a similar level of awesomeness. No 6A group has defended the state title since 2014. It’s super competitive and that’s what makes it so much fun to watch! VinoGirl 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1998-2018 Posted November 10, 2022 Report Share Posted November 10, 2022 1 hour ago, BandFan59 said: This is likely an effect of UIL implementing the top half-bottom half split. Looking at the finals recap last year you could see there was a lot more range in the ordinals bands received from the judges while this year, top half bands were almost exclusively ranked between 1-7 and bottom half bands 8-14. Probably something we should expect to see in the future as well, just seems to be a natural outcome of the split. With just one UIL data set it seems early for drawing conclusions regarding what is cause versus effect, but it’s an intriguing possibility that bears watching. It does make me wonder if the same thing happened to preliminary scores when BOA implemented the top/bottom split in 2016. We know there has been very little movement across the BOA top/bottom split so adding that data set might be a helpful expansion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemmit48 Posted November 10, 2022 Report Share Posted November 10, 2022 I noticed that during prelims, there was a yellow countdown clock running in the Alamodome during each performance (the remaining time made it easy to tell whether the bit-that-sounds-like-a-finale really was.) During finals, the clock stayed at 0 after the pre-show countdown. Are the timing rules different for finals? Or was that a mistake? (Speaking of mistakes, the stadium announcer saying that Reagan was there for prelims on Tuesday was super awkward, especially given the electronics fiasco.) Dave609 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Hobbs Posted November 10, 2022 Report Share Posted November 10, 2022 39 minutes ago, 1998-2018 said: With just one UIL data set it seems early for drawing conclusions regarding what is cause versus effect, but it’s an intriguing possibility that bears watching. It does make me wonder if the same thing happened to preliminary scores when BOA implemented the top/bottom split in 2016. We know there has been very little movement across the BOA top/bottom split so adding that data set might be a helpful expansion. It may just be coincidence. At State, there was another shift in 2018( Leander went from 8th to 5th, and CTJ went from 4th to 7th). Another in 2014( CTJ 7th to 3rd, Flower Mound 3rd to 9th). However there was no shift in 2016. Also, interestingly, the top 6 placements made no changes in placement in 2016. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Hobbs Posted November 10, 2022 Report Share Posted November 10, 2022 On 11/8/2022 at 7:05 PM, lost said: Funnily enough, this is the second time the 4th placing band at San Antonio has gone on to win the state title. It’s actually the third. Marcus accomplished the same feat in 2014. lost 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsstephenyo Posted November 10, 2022 Report Share Posted November 10, 2022 8 hours ago, gemmit48 said: I noticed that during prelims, there was a yellow countdown clock running in the Alamodome during each performance (the remaining time made it easy to tell whether the bit-that-sounds-like-a-finale really was.) During finals, the clock stayed at 0 after the pre-show countdown. Are the timing rules different for finals? Or was that a mistake? (Speaking of mistakes, the stadium announcer saying that Reagan was there for prelims on Tuesday was super awkward, especially given the electronics fiasco.) I believe the timing rules are different for finals. I know Hebron's show actually ran a tad bit over 8min; thus, they typically started the show slightly before the actual designated start time, but they didn't have to do so in finals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpudMuffin Posted November 10, 2022 Report Share Posted November 10, 2022 I am absolutely blown away by all of the bands at the State contest! These discussions tend to only revolve around just the top bands at the contest. What about the mid-pack bands? What about the bands that are just happy to make the show? Can someone give a critique (strengths & weaknesses) of all 42 bands? All of the bands worked hard to entertain the crowd! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave609 Posted November 10, 2022 Report Share Posted November 10, 2022 2 hours ago, SpudMuffin said: I am absolutely blown away by all of the bands at the State contest! These discussions tend to only revolve around just the top bands at the contest. What about the mid-pack bands? What about the bands that are just happy to make the show? Can someone give a critique (strengths & weaknesses) of all 42 bands? All of the bands worked hard to entertain the crowd! Most of the prelims stuff is towards the beginning of this topic, where people give their input on those who participated. Evert Band had amazing runs, and this was one of the best years for Marching Band! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BandDad4 Posted November 10, 2022 Report Share Posted November 10, 2022 After listening to judges commentary.... man, their useless. Beautiful, great, fantastic... 38th Dallas Hobbs and Miyazuu 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpudMuffin Posted November 10, 2022 Report Share Posted November 10, 2022 24 minutes ago, Dave609 said: Most of the prelims stuff is towards the beginning of this topic, where people give their input on those who participated. Evert Band had amazing runs, and this was one of the best years for Marching Band! Most of the stuff at the beginning of this topic was either complaining about the Live Feed, a ton of back and forth discussion about usual finalists bands in each block, more useless discussion about BOA and GN that belongs in a different thread, and three pages of wasted time about recaps. Very little discussion about other performing bands. Just trying to get a discussion going that is inclusive about everyone, instead of just 5 or 6 schools. There were several very entertaining and well performed shows from schools that never receive any mention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamago1 Posted November 10, 2022 Report Share Posted November 10, 2022 Ok this might've been passed, but I'm still not understanding how Cy-Fair was placed last in brass, yet days before at BOA SA they get 7th in music ensemble. Really shows you how much can vary contest to contest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vidal28 Posted November 10, 2022 Report Share Posted November 10, 2022 22 hours ago, itsstephenyo said: I wanna say it felt like that, too. I didn't attend the SMBC finals but at Super Regionals, TWHS, Reagan, Hebron, Vandegrift, and Vista were kind of a cut above the rest. Agreed, it’s interesting though that the cut above for the top 5 is a 9.5+/10 and then the next several bands are still at a 9.0-9.3/10 still. You can still eek out how the bands seperate themselves though regardless haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchycookie3 Posted November 10, 2022 Report Share Posted November 10, 2022 On 11/9/2022 at 5:07 PM, itsstephenyo said: I wanna say it felt like that, too. I didn't attend the SMBC finals but at Super Regionals, TWHS, Reagan, Hebron, Vandegrift, and Vista were kind of a cut above the rest. Hebron always impresses me by being able to join the ranks of these schools despite being at a *relative* economic disadvantage compared to the rest of the finals programs. Good for them! Still, I would love to see programs like Bell, Cy-Fair, or Duncanville push into this tier as well. Time will tell! BaritoneBallah and itsstephenyo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DallasFan Posted November 11, 2022 Report Share Posted November 11, 2022 11 hours ago, itsstephenyo said: I believe the timing rules are different for finals. I know Hebron's show actually ran a tad bit over 8min; thus, they typically started the show slightly before the actual designated start time, but they didn't have to do so in finals. UIL tells the finalists bands that they won't be running the clock to ensure everyone having the best performance they can. No penalties given essentially. BaritoneBallah and itsstephenyo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vidal28 Posted November 11, 2022 Report Share Posted November 11, 2022 On 11/9/2022 at 11:59 AM, 1998-2018 said: That’s an excellent perspective! With the “It’s always the same bands.”contingent seemingly as dug in and frustrated as ever about the SASR and SMBC, I went back to review the other qualifiers and finishing order from the first time (1998) our program made Finals at a BOA Regional Competition. 1. Spring H.S. 2. Winston Churchill H.S. 3. L.D. Bell H.S. 4. The Woodlands H.S. 5. Seguin H.S. 7. Comeaux H.S. 6. Pflugerville H.S. 8. Cy-Fair H.S. 9. Fossil Ridge H.S. 10. Keller H.S. Just two of these bands, The Woodlands and Keller, were also in this years SASR Finals. The year previous to this first time Finals appearance Keller finished in 17th place. For additional comparison I also reviewed the Finalists for the 1998 and 1999 SMBC. Nobody from the 1998 SMBC Finals was also in the 2022 SASR or SMBC. Coppell and Keller are the only Finalist from the 1999 SMBC to also be in the 2022 SASR and SMBC Finals. Again, just two bands. That’s hardly “Always the same bands.” Admittedly, 1998/1999 was a long time ago, but that’s kind of the point. Making Finals at these competitions can be a long and difficult process, and making Finals constantly is even harder, but turnover does happen regularly. Take the time to review other shorter timelines and you will find results can come in streaks with bands making 4,5,6,7+ consecutive Finals appearances or, more likely, spreading them intermittently across 10+ years, but there will be new names too. (Welcome to the club, Waxahatchie!!!) If your kid doesn’t make Finals during their four years, take pride in the improvement they were a part of and celebrate the foundation they are building for the kids that follow them. Like peshbandkid did. Keep The Faith It’s also important to remember that some groups weren’t always in the highest classification(be it 4A, 5A, or 6A currently) up until very recently. Bands like Waxahachie like you mentioned already having a long history of success at UIL, just in the 2nd highest classification. Bands like Vista, Vandy, Cedar Ridge have competed in the highest classification for not too long now and they are all either state champions or medalists now in 6A. You could insert a Rouse, Leander, Cedar Park, Wakeland and several others competing now in 5A into 6A competition and they could all contend for a finals spot at state with all the 6A groups, it’s only “a lot of turnover” simply due to the large volume of groups, and not really because bands are inconsistent or have “fallen off” as some doomers like to say sometimes😂 So many are performing at a high level, and that number hasn’t ever shrunk but has only continued to grow, which we should all see as a great thing for marching band here in the state, as well as how these schools set their students up for success in the second part of the fall and concert season in the spring, it’s very exciting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vin Posted November 11, 2022 Report Share Posted November 11, 2022 On 11/9/2022 at 2:53 PM, TenorSaxMan16 said: Does anyone have a meaning on what Hebron's show was? I understand it was something with a radio station but like also the ocean? If I'm wrong just tell me lol It's basically them surfing the radio waves and moving back in time, starting with modern pop (The Weeknd) moving back towards Earth, Wind, and Fire, then reaching classical with Vivaldi's Summer and then Come Sail Away to close. The prop changes indicate a new station. Basically, an "odyssey" through the eras of music, with the Greek Odyssey tying in. BaritoneBallah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Hobbs Posted November 11, 2022 Report Share Posted November 11, 2022 13 hours ago, SpudMuffin said: I am absolutely blown away by all of the bands at the State contest! These discussions tend to only revolve around just the top bands at the contest. What about the mid-pack bands? What about the bands that are just happy to make the show? Can someone give a critique (strengths & weaknesses) of all 42 bands? All of the bands worked hard to entertain the crowd! I won’t be able to do all of them but I do wanna point out how the woodwind and brass feature in Marcus High school’s opener has improved. I remember at the HEB contest in early October listening to the woodwinds do those 16th note runs and realizing that at the end of those runs when they play the sustained note it wasn’t always perfectly in tune, but over time they made terrific improvements to that. And with the brass multiple-tonguing feature it wasn’t as clean at HEB as it was when I heard it again in contests later in the season and at state. Really happy to see (or should I say hear?) one of my favorite groups’ performers get better over time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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