Vidal28 Posted November 9, 2022 Report Share Posted November 9, 2022 41 minutes ago, peshbandkid said: Vista Ridge Cedar Ridge Waxahachie Ronald Reagan Round Rock CTJ Vandegrift The Woodlands Hebron Coppell Flower Mound Marcus Keller Pearland Vista grew on me BIG TIME this season! Musically superb (and it reflected in the scores,) and CEDAR-FREAKING-RIDGE!!! In a way, LISD North was definetely not the same as last year (at least for me.) Penstriped, Dr. Seuss, and The Missing Piece were all just phenomenal to watch! While I didn't hate any of their shows this year, I found it more difficult to really engage and love them this year. Agreed, we’ll see what LISD north pulls out of their hats next year though. I most certainly will be there to watch as a DFW local here haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post peshbandkid Posted November 9, 2022 Popular Post Report Share Posted November 9, 2022 17 hours ago, BandDad4 said: I know finals is still going on, but speaking with the kids, some band parents across a few bands that did not make it into finals. Some of them are starting to wonder what is the point of SABOA and State if its the same bands year and year out. Bias, money, and juding inconsistancy is starting to build up. As a former high school marcher, there is disappointment when you can't break the top. However, I don't think the reasosn you listed are applicable in a lot of cases. Money will separate all high school activities, judging inconsistency happens, yet there tends to be some reasoning for why. It is extremely important for bands and their students to make small, attainable goals in order to build a stronger program. In my senior year of high school, our major goal was to make Area finals in Area C. When we heard we made it, the energy we felt was unmatched. Did we go to state? No. Did our band get significantly better this season? Yes! Zil, JazzRun, 1998-2018 and 5 others 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Zil Posted November 9, 2022 Popular Post Report Share Posted November 9, 2022 15 hours ago, VistaGuardDad said: I'm pretty new to band. This is only my second year and we aren't even from Texas so our first two kids didn't go to school with a band that did much more than play some Queen at football games. Can someone explain what the different things mean in the scores? I get the music stuff, that's pretty straight forward. What is Visual Individual? Does that mean we don't have enough guard to compete with the guys that have 50 to 90 guard members? Also, if this isn't appropriate or anyone takes offence please let me know and I'll remove this part of the post. No offense meant at all, but I don't understand the scores that Cedar Ridge got. I've seen posts about their drum core being amazing both at BOA and in state, but I didn't see anything the really pushed it over say Vista or Vandy. I totally get visual ensemble score (I love that the front end also has a guard like uniform). As I said, I don't mean any offense because I do actually enjoy their show I just don't understand how it's better than most of the people they placed in front of. Apparently completely because of my ignorance. New to this too but I've learned a lot just by reading on this forum. There are a lot of people here with first hand experience (which I have none) or have been involved with the arts for a long time. Here's what I've learned so far: On the visual question, celesta had a very good break down of the Hebron performance that describes what judges are looking for. Here's the quote (emphasis are mine): 13 hours ago, celesta said: One main thing that stuck to me was that Hebron wasn't as visually clean this year compared to last season. Individual visuals were all over the place, and it really stuck out to me when I watched the BOA finals multicam. Choreography being a grace note to half a count late or early, flute angles being inconsistent, etc. That definitely explained their 2nd place in Visual Individual at SA finals. Visual ensemble took a hit too. In 2021, there was a huge parallelogram rotation/dilation towards the end of the closer. That was SO ****ING CLEAN at state finals. As in, BD 2022 line rotation/spiral level clean. Nearly picture perfect. This year, there was a similar drill move in the closer. It wasn't as clean. The lines didn't hit; some people consistently missed cover downs. Some of the box rotations before the waterfall in the opener also looked iffy during the move (cleaned up at the hold, which means someone was taking a curved path.) Overall, visuals just weren't at the level of cleanliness that they achieved in 2021. I've also seen it described as commitment by each and every performer. Not just the guards but each person on the field because each person has a role and message to convey. And they have to do it for the whole show because you never know where the judge is looking. On Cedar Ridge, you will just have to trust the experts on this (and I am definitely not one of them). The technical accuracy/precision that the percussionists are expected to perform to be considered great at this is unreal. I personally am not able to tell but they can hear when a drummer is off by even a smidge or if there is inconsistency in the keyboard playing. The snares for example has to sound like a single player (so there is no "width in the sound") and that's hard when you're doing that at the speeds that most of these kids are expected to play. It's also not just about banging the drum, there are nuances of dynamics, phrasing and musicality which again might be hard to discern/identify for the untrained ear. (Sorry, I'm a bit passionate about percussion even though I'm not really good at it. ) Miyazuu, CosmicLimbo, VistaGuardDad and 2 others 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLozRook Posted November 9, 2022 Report Share Posted November 9, 2022 For those of you new to band or wanting to improve, one thing our band does is share with everyone (parents included) the judges' recordings. It really helps to hear exactly what they're looking for. For example, during prelims we got the note, "It's important to make a curve with your arm that starts from your spine, not from your shoulder." And, "Make sure those sabers are caught at the 45-degree angle." So the whole band had the opportunity to hear that and realize this is what this judging panel is looking for. If your band program doesn't do this, maybe go to your Band Boosters and see if it will work for you. Dallas Hobbs and 1998-2018 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBOCmello Posted November 9, 2022 Report Share Posted November 9, 2022 Fun fact: if you take the SCORES from the recap and average them instead of the rankings, this is how it turns out. 1 Hebron 98.329 (+1) 2 Vandegrift 97.971 (-1) 3 Cedar Ridge 97.614 4 The Woodlands 97.014 5 Vista Ridge 96.857 6 Reagan 96.757 7 Flower Mound 95.471 8 Marcus 94.686 (+1) 9 Coppell 94.214 (-1) 10 Keller 93.171 (+1) 11 Round Rock 92.857 (-1) 12 CTJ 92.071 13 Waxahachie 91.329 (+1) 14 Pearland 91.257 (-1) An Inspirational Pinecone 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post 1998-2018 Posted November 9, 2022 Popular Post Report Share Posted November 9, 2022 2 hours ago, peshbandkid said: As a former high school marcher, there is disappointment when you can't break the top. However, I don't think the reasosn you listed are applicable in a lot of cases. Money will separate all high school activities, judging inconsistency happens, yet there tends to be some reasoning for why. It is extremely important for bands and their students to make small, attainable goals in order to build a stronger program. In my senior year of high school, our major goal was to make Area finals in Area C. When we heard we made it, the energy we felt was unmatched. Did we go to state? No. Did our band get significantly better this season? Yes! That’s an excellent perspective! With the “It’s always the same bands.”contingent seemingly as dug in and frustrated as ever about the SASR and SMBC, I went back to review the other qualifiers and finishing order from the first time (1998) our program made Finals at a BOA Regional Competition. 1. Spring H.S. 2. Winston Churchill H.S. 3. L.D. Bell H.S. 4. The Woodlands H.S. 5. Seguin H.S. 7. Comeaux H.S. 6. Pflugerville H.S. 8. Cy-Fair H.S. 9. Fossil Ridge H.S. 10. Keller H.S. Just two of these bands, The Woodlands and Keller, were also in this years SASR Finals. The year previous to this first time Finals appearance Keller finished in 17th place. For additional comparison I also reviewed the Finalists for the 1998 and 1999 SMBC. Nobody from the 1998 SMBC Finals was also in the 2022 SASR or SMBC. Coppell and Keller are the only Finalist from the 1999 SMBC to also be in the 2022 SASR and SMBC Finals. Again, just two bands. That’s hardly “Always the same bands.” Admittedly, 1998/1999 was a long time ago, but that’s kind of the point. Making Finals at these competitions can be a long and difficult process, and making Finals constantly is even harder, but turnover does happen regularly. Take the time to review other shorter timelines and you will find results can come in streaks with bands making 4,5,6,7+ consecutive Finals appearances or, more likely, spreading them intermittently across 10+ years, but there will be new names too. (Welcome to the club, Waxahatchie!!!) If your kid doesn’t make Finals during their four years, take pride in the improvement they were a part of and celebrate the foundation they are building for the kids that follow them. Like peshbandkid did. Keep The Faith WoodlandsMom4ever, Dallas Hobbs and peshbandkid 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaultLineBlues Posted November 9, 2022 Report Share Posted November 9, 2022 By the way, if anyone manages to find a video of finals awards I'd love to see it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natertater21000 Posted November 9, 2022 Report Share Posted November 9, 2022 It is interesting to note that if UIL averaged all the judge's raw scores (while all being weighted the same) to create a more BOA style 0-100 scale that the results would have been flipped. Hebron-98.3 Vandegrift-97.9 Edit: this post is not meant to take away anything from Vandegrift, I'm just a huge numbers nerd 🤓 LeanderMomma 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeKyu Posted November 9, 2022 Report Share Posted November 9, 2022 26 minutes ago, natertater21000 said: It is interesting to note that if UIL averaged all the judge's raw scores (while all being weighted the same) to create a more BOA style 0-100 scale that the results would have been flipped. Hebron-98.3 Vandegrift-97.9 Edit: this post is not meant to take away anything from Vandegrift, I'm just a huge numbers nerd 🤓 Now do it using the BOA 60/40 weighting itsstephenyo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natertater21000 Posted November 9, 2022 Report Share Posted November 9, 2022 13 minutes ago, MikeKyu said: Now do it using the BOA 60/40 weighting That would give Hebron a 98.110 and Vandy a 98.155. Still CRAZY close! This one doesn't work as well though because it would assign 60% of the score to one judge. itsstephenyo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaOmega Posted November 9, 2022 Report Share Posted November 9, 2022 I just saw Reagan's show. I feel so bad that their electronics failed. I heard that a lot of these bands have Plan B's for in the event electronics fail. They also have "we are about to go overtime, stop and evacuate the field" protocols. It's best to be prepared, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BandFan59 Posted November 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2022 Kind of a random fact, but last year Marcus, Flower Mound, and Coppell placed 3rd, 4th, and 5th at state. This year the order switched around with Flower Mound coming out on top and Coppell behind them, but they all placed right next to each other again in 7th, 8th, and 9th. DFW bands stick together! Dallas Hobbs and pancake 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BandDad4 Posted November 9, 2022 Report Share Posted November 9, 2022 18 hours ago, JTApex said: IMO, the recaps never tell the full story. To truly understand, you'd need access to the full judging sheets that show their reasoning. In any activity that is judged subjectively, each judge has his/her own perspective and that will be reflected in how they rank each group. Note that I'm not saying they are slanted to one band over another, just that each may value each of the criteria they are responsible for a little differently. With a field as good as the 14 finalists this year are, the judges may well have to focus on fairly minor, to us, things in order to create some real distinctions between several phenomenal groups. I'm curious about those judging sheets, I assume these are only available to the directors? I always wondered why we see consistant scoring and then more often than one not you have this one judge as we used to say, smoking crack, with a wildly different scoring. Perhaps we should starting throwing out the high and low? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seafoodbuffet Posted November 9, 2022 Report Share Posted November 9, 2022 2 hours ago, FaultLineBlues said: By the way, if anyone manages to find a video of finals awards I'd love to see it! Not mine but here you go FaultLineBlues 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Hobbs Posted November 9, 2022 Report Share Posted November 9, 2022 1 hour ago, BandFan59 said: Kind of a random fact, but last year Marcus, Flower Mound, and Coppell placed 3rd, 4th, and 5th at state. This year the order switched around with Flower Mound coming out on top and Coppell behind them, but they all placed right next to each other again in 7th, 8th, and 9th. DFW bands stick together! Regarding flower mound, and i don’t really see this as a negative since they were 2nd at TMEA state honor band and have numerous all-staters, I’ve noticed their placements over the years at state have gotten lower. From state years in 2016-2022 the trend went 1st->2nd->3rd->4th ->7th. Anybody have an idea why that is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TenorSaxMan16 Posted November 9, 2022 Report Share Posted November 9, 2022 Does anyone have a meaning on what Hebron's show was? I understand it was something with a radio station but like also the ocean? If I'm wrong just tell me lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Hobbs Posted November 9, 2022 Report Share Posted November 9, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, TenorSaxMan16 said: Does anyone have a meaning on what Hebron's show was? I understand it was something with a radio station but like also the ocean? If I'm wrong just tell me lol I think they were going for a jukebox format of popular music we’ve heard on the radio + classical, orchestral style music. Hence the stereo props, CD props. And the boat props, I think refers to the “Odyssey” part of the show title “Odyssey FM”, while the other props refer to the “FM” part. Musically I think the bergersen and Vivaldi music refer to the Odyssey part cuz I can imagine being a Viking in boat with this music playing in the background(lol) while the other selections refer to the FM part since those are more mainstream, popular music selections we’ve heard on the radio. Edited November 9, 2022 by Dallas Hobbs TenorSaxMan16 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post itsstephenyo Posted November 9, 2022 Popular Post Report Share Posted November 9, 2022 11 minutes ago, TenorSaxMan16 said: Does anyone have a meaning on what Hebron's show was? I understand it was something with a radio station but like also the ocean? If I'm wrong just tell me lol They used "waves" to portray the show idea, radio waves, water waves, etc. Odyssey FM was like a radio station, and the ships referred to the greek/roman story of The Odyssey. celesta, Dallas Hobbs and TenorSaxMan16 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BandFan59 Posted November 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2022 6 minutes ago, Dallas Hobbs said: Regarding flower mound, and i don’t really see this as a negative since they were 2nd at TMEA state honor band and have numerous all-staters, I’ve noticed their placements over the years at state have gotten lower. From state years in 2016-2022 the trend went 1st->2nd->3rd->4th ->7th. Anybody have an idea why that is? I think last year their show was more designed for a BOA setting and peaked at Grand Nationals rather than UIL State. As for this year I personally feel that their show, while still fantastic, wasn't up to the level we've seen from them in the past. Musically it was still very good and the design was super creative but drill wise it was a bit safe in my opinion. That said it was still an awesome show and I'm sure they'll be back to the heights we all know they're capable of reaching next year. Dallas Hobbs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TenorSaxMan16 Posted November 9, 2022 Report Share Posted November 9, 2022 thanks @Dallas Hobbs@itsstephenyothat makes sense. Dallas Hobbs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mmbandfan Posted November 9, 2022 Popular Post Report Share Posted November 9, 2022 3 hours ago, 1998-2018 said: That’s an excellent perspective! With the “It’s always the same bands.”contingent seemingly as dug in and frustrated as ever about the SASR and SMBC, I went back to review the other qualifiers and finishing order from the first time (1998) our program made Finals at a BOA Regional Competition. 1. Spring H.S. 2. Winston Churchill H.S. 3. L.D. Bell H.S. 4. The Woodlands H.S. 5. Seguin H.S. 7. Comeaux H.S. 6. Pflugerville H.S. 8. Cy-Fair H.S. 9. Fossil Ridge H.S. 10. Keller H.S. Just two of these bands, The Woodlands and Keller, were also in this years SASR Finals. The year previous to this first time Finals appearance Keller finished in 17th place. For additional comparison I also reviewed the Finalists for the 1998 and 1999 SMBC. Nobody from the 1998 SMBC Finals was also in the 2022 SASR or SMBC. Coppell and Keller are the only Finalist from the 1999 SMBC to also be in the 2022 SASR and SMBC Finals. Again, just two bands. That’s hardly “Always the same bands.” Admittedly, 1998/1999 was a long time ago, but that’s kind of the point. Making Finals at these competitions can be a long and difficult process, and making Finals constantly is even harder, but turnover does happen regularly. Take the time to review other shorter timelines and you will find results can come in streaks with bands making 4,5,6,7+ consecutive Finals appearances or, more likely, spreading them intermittently across 10+ years, but there will be new names too. (Welcome to the club, Waxahatchie!!!) If your kid doesn’t make Finals during their four years, take pride in the improvement they were a part of and celebrate the foundation they are building for the kids that follow them. Like peshbandkid did. Keep The Faith 7 of the 14 finalist schools this year did not exist in 1998, btw. Vandegrift (2009), Cedar Ridge (2008), Vista Ridge (2003), Flower Mound (1999), Hebron (1999), CTJ (2008), and Ronald Reagan (1999) LeanderMomma, celesta, LostChoirGuy and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TenorSaxMan16 Posted November 9, 2022 Report Share Posted November 9, 2022 This literally happens to me every year. As soon as the season ends I get super hyped for the next one and have a ton of questions. Question, Can someone explain music and visual general effect. I should know this im a sophmore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Culper Posted November 9, 2022 Report Share Posted November 9, 2022 27 minutes ago, mmbandfan said: 7 of the 14 finalist schools this year did not exist in 1998, btw. Vandegrift (2009), Cedar Ridge (2008), Vista Ridge (2003), Flower Mound (1999), Hebron (1999), CTJ (2008), and Ronald Reagan (1999) Interesting that list includes the bands that came in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th and 7th. 1998-2018 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1998-2018 Posted November 9, 2022 Report Share Posted November 9, 2022 26 minutes ago, mmbandfan said: 7 of the 14 finalist schools this year did not exist in 1998, btw. Vandegrift (2009), Cedar Ridge (2008), Vista Ridge (2003), Flower Mound (1999), Hebron (1999), CTJ (2008), and Ronald Reagan (1999) Ha! Wow, that’s quite a collection of excellent bands. I’m not quite sure if you were intending to support my point or not, but I feel like your observation was ultimately supportive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Efrin Posted November 9, 2022 Report Share Posted November 9, 2022 17 hours ago, Dallas Hobbs said: So I was looking at the recaps and Vandegrift won the tiebreaker via a 5-2 judges favoritism. I guess with 7 judges it doesn’t need to be as close as a 4-3 split. Correct. And this is a perfect example of how the ordinal scoring system can (intentionally) produce a different champion than a "highest total" scoring system. Hebron had the higher total score (6,883 vs. 6,858) but 5 of the 7 judges ranked Vandegrift higher. Pretty sure UIL would tell you that this is a feature, not a bug. 1998-2018 and Dallas Hobbs 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.