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6A UIL Area D 2022 Predictions/Results


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7 minutes ago, Band2021 said:

Maybe it's just me but I definitely think Cedar Ridge's brass deserves higher than a 7th place ranking. I also won't get into the percussion rankings. 

 

Either way, super stoked to see DS make it to state! It's awesome to see, but also sad for the bands that just missed it. 

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30 minutes ago, FaultLineBlues said:

Maybe it's just me but I definitely think Cedar Ridge's brass deserves higher than a 7th place ranking. I also won't get into the percussion rankings. 

 

Either way, super stoked to see DS make it to state! It's awesome to see, but also sad for the bands that just missed it. 

Said the same thing! Keith Dye wasn't to kind in finals or prelims for CR. I was surprised by CR visual score they tend to struggle there but seemed strong tonight. 

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 If you want the state system you would need 63 judges tonight for the nine areas. If you want the boa system you need 72 judges.  That is just for 6a area. Keep in mind 4a and 2a also had their competitions yesterday (If all had the boa system that would be 152 judges for 19 area competitions, on a single day ). 

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1 hour ago, ReveriesOp24 said:

UIL Judging and grading needs to be redone. I feel like it should be judged more like BOA, or at least have the same style panel as they do at the state contest

This is not going to happen until a lot of people in power in the band world in UIL die off. There is a very long history of the old boys club that has run the UIL side and there are certain programs in Texas that have been protected by them. As long as those people are still running things, this judging system will stay in place. BOA judging has an element of this as well, but not nearly as bad and is much better and more consistent than the UIL system. Also, the UIL system was not designed for corps style bands. It was designed for military style bands. It has been slightly modified, but is still not ideal for modern bands.

 

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10 hours ago, Hard Core Band Fan said:

This is not going to happen until a lot of people in power in the band world in UIL die off. There is a very long history of the old boys club that has run the UIL side and there are certain programs in Texas that have been protected by them. As long as those people are still running things, this judging system will stay in place. BOA judging has an element of this as well, but not nearly as bad and is much better and more consistent than the UIL system. Also, the UIL system was not designed for corps style bands. It was designed for military style bands. It has been slightly modified, but is still not ideal for modern bands.

 

I agree to some of your points -  it is not about a "old boys club" - it is about tradition. I agree that they need to make changes to accommodate the more "corps style" rather than a military style review and I think that we have seen movement that in the past 5 years thanks to the efforts of Dr. Kent. but it will not happen overnight.  Texas has become of the Marching Arts - BOA continues to add events in Texas because of the strength of the programs, BOA SA is the most competitive event outside of grand nats -  will they ever get there? don't know - but think that there has been progress in the past decade - but accept the progress in small steps 

 

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6 hours ago, JMR2022 said:

I agree to some of your points -  it is not about a "old boys club" - it is about tradition. I agree that they need to make changes to accommodate the more "corps style" rather than a military style review and I think that we have seen movement that in the past 5 years thanks to the efforts of Dr. Kent. but it will not happen overnight.  Texas has become of the Marching Arts - BOA continues to add events in Texas because of the strength of the programs, BOA SA is the most competitive event outside of grand nats -  will they ever get there? don't know - but think that there has been progress in the past decade - but accept the progress in small steps 

 

Fify.

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8 hours ago, JMR2022 said:

I agree to some of your points -  it is not about a "old boys club" - it is about tradition. I agree that they need to make changes to accommodate the more "corps style" rather than a military style review and I think that we have seen movement that in the past 5 years thanks to the efforts of Dr. Kent. but it will not happen overnight.  Texas has become of the Marching Arts - BOA continues to add events in Texas because of the strength of the programs, BOA SA is the most competitive event outside of grand nats -  will they ever get there? don't know - but think that there has been progress in the past decade - but accept the progress in small steps 

 

Or it could be that I know things about the band world you just don't know. I've been around the music education scene since the 1960's. I speak from a point of fact. You are, however, welcome to your opinion even when incorrect.

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I think the reason why the ordinal system is so wonky is that the judges are forced to rank bands with no way to indicate that the gap between bands can be different. For example judge 1 may think the difference between band 3 and 4 is big but the gap between 4 and 5 is very small, yet they are still forced to give one ordinal point difference between them.

On the other hand, the ordinal system also protects against one judge "throwing the game" away. Too many competitions happening at the same time to have that many judges of the same caliber available, just a fact of life.

Bottomline, I think its hard to be a judge here (or in any marching band competition with many great performing ensembles). I'm glad I don't have to do it, then again, I have no experience in marching band whatsoever (except to watch my kid play) so.... 😅

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47 minutes ago, Zil said:

I think the reason why the ordinal system is so wonky is that the judges are forced to rank bands with no way to indicate that the gap between bands can be different. For example judge 1 may think the difference between band 3 and 4 is big but the gap between 4 and 5 is very small, yet they are still forced to give one ordinal point difference between them.

On the other hand, the ordinal system also protects against one judge "throwing the game" away. Too many competitions happening at the same time to have that many judges of the same caliber available, just a fact of life.

Bottomline, I think its hard to be a judge here (or in any marching band competition with many great performing ensembles). I'm glad I don't have to do it, then again, I have no experience in marching band whatsoever (except to watch my kid play) so.... 😅

Are you sure judges are being forced to rank bands?  When I look at this score sheet, I see scores underneath each "rank" assigned to a band.  So to me it seems like judges are just scoring bands off of a score sheet...and their scores are being used to determine ordinal ranks.

https://www.smbc.uiltexas.org/area/results/files/area-22_6A Area D.pdf

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8 minutes ago, bchorn said:

Are you sure judges are being forced to rank bands?  When I look at this score sheet, I see scores underneath each "rank" assigned to a band.  So to me it seems like judges are just scoring bands off of a score sheet...and their scores are being used to determine ordinal ranks.

https://www.smbc.uiltexas.org/area/results/files/area-22_6A Area D.pdf

yes they have a score sheet to use but in the end, what counts in the final ranking (total column) is the ordinal rank that each judge gives for every band. 

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1 hour ago, Zil said:

yes they have a score sheet to use but in the end, what counts in the final ranking (total column) is the ordinal rank that each judge gives for every band. 

ok, that doesn't seem like a forced ranking to me though.  

I still think its possible to see when bands are close to each other using ordinal ranks just by looking at comparing collective ordinal ranks.  CTJ and Reagan were tied in collective ordinal ranks and Cedar Ridge was just 2 ranks behind them.  And there was a huge gap between Cedar Ridge and Round Rock...9 ranks.  So the top 3 were in a class of their own...and then there was a big drop off after that.

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8 minutes ago, bchorn said:

ok, that doesn't seem like a forced ranking to me though.  

I still think its possible to see when bands are close to each other using ordinal ranks just by looking at comparing collective ordinal ranks.  CTJ and Reagan were tied in collective ordinal ranks and Cedar Ridge was just 2 ranks behind them.  And there was a huge gap between Cedar Ridge and Round Rock...9 ranks.  So the top 3 were in a class of their own...and then there was a big drop off after that.

For the top tier it's not so much an issue. It's in the bubble that can make it interesting. 

To make clear, I'm not contesting the results at all (in fact, I'm happy with it). It was just an observation of how using ordinal ranking can be different versus using raw score. As a matter of math, it could be different when a judge is able to contribute a number 1 thru 10 for ten bands versus being able to contribute a raw score that can range from 0 to 100. But as I said earlier, this opens up the possibility that one judge can skew the results. So maybe that's not a good idea either.

Or maybe I'm just overthinking it. 😅 ...move along, nothing to see here 😂

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8 hours ago, Hard Core Band Fan said:

Or it could be that I know things about the band world you just don't know. I've been around the music education scene since the 1960's. I speak from a point of fact. You are, however, welcome to your opinion even when incorrect.

so I guess your 60 years of experience makes you part of the "old boys club" - keep us posted on the obituary 

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1 minute ago, JMR2022 said:

so I guess your 60 years of experience makes you part of the "old boys club" - keep us posted on the obituary 

Nope, just aware of how things work and have worked since way back. Never agreed with most of it and never participated in any of it. There are many things I know that I wish I didn't. And thanks for the wish of my death. Shows great character. By the way, I wish the opposite for you.

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