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2021 BOA Grand Nationals (Nov. 11-13)


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Alrighty. I've had enough. Here are where the Texas groups going to Nationals stand at the moment. The way-too-early September rankings. ?

The Woodlands

Claudia Taylor Johnson

Flower Mound

Ronald Reagan

Vista Ridge

Marcus

Round Rock

I feel like 2-4 might be pretty interchangeable. Very difficult shows. A lot of it will come down to how clean those groups are able to get. Will CTJ be able to achieve the clarity of a typical Eagle show this year and connect all the dots in their very engaging and eclectic show? Will Flower Mound get the rest of their show looking and sounding like that amazing opening statement? Will Reagan be able to reach a level of performance near what we saw in 2019 with a show that seems to have the magic of that show? As for the others, I'm imagining Vista Ridge's show with less Katy Perry, and I like it quite a bit. ? Let's just pretend there will be less Katy Perry over a month from now! Oh, what a great show! In terms of excitement, I probably would have Round Rock ahead of Marcus, but Marcus is pretty polished, so...

TWHS is playing it very smart. So far, they've got a production that's both very effective and that they can get clean. Maybe their closer will be a total, inconsistent mess. Maybe the others will catch up. Maybe this time they'll win. Not sure. I believe the closer is based around that other song from Chicago everyone can hum. I'm imagining a real toe-tapping finish, but will it touch us on a more serious emotional level the way that most Eagle shows do? Does it need to?

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20 hours ago, Rubisco said:

Alrighty. I've had enough. Here are where the Texas groups going to Nationals stand at the moment. The way-too-early September rankings. ?

The Woodlands

Claudia Taylor Johnson

Flower Mound

Ronald Reagan

Vista Ridge

Marcus

Round Rock

I feel like 2-4 might be pretty interchangeable. Very difficult shows. A lot of it will come down to how clean those groups are able to get. Will CTJ be able to achieve the clarity of a typical Eagle show this year and connect all the dots in their very engaging and eclectic show? Will Flower Mound get the rest of their show looking and sounding like that amazing opening statement? Will Reagan be able to reach a level of performance near what we saw in 2019 with a show that seems to have the magic of that show? As for the others, I'm imagining Vista Ridge's show with less Katy Perry, and I like it quite a bit. ? Let's just pretend there will be less Katy Perry over a month from now! Oh, what a great show! In terms of excitement, I probably would have Round Rock ahead of Marcus, but Marcus is pretty polished, so...

TWHS is playing it very smart. So far, they've got a production that's both very effective and that they can get clean. Maybe their closer will be a total, inconsistent mess. Maybe the others will catch up. Maybe this time they'll win. Not sure. I believe the closer is based around that other song from Chicago everyone can hum. I'm imagining a real toe-tapping finish, but will it touch us on a more serious emotional level the way that most Eagle shows do? Does it need to?

There’s some bands I haven’t been able to see or at least not get to see in the capacity that I’d like to, not gonna talk too much about the 3 LISD bands quite yet until I see them in person at DFW! Caught Hebron in early September, and really enjoyed their music and their consistent excellence in that area, and both FloMo and Marcus follow that same path, I wanna see in person and enjoy their shows before I say more! CTJ and TWHS are so so solid early on, where any kind of inconsistency should for sure be addressed through the month and a half of season to go and several rounds of adjudication and feedback they’ll be getting as well! CTJ I feel is a medal contender this year, and team Texas should have another amazing year after the last GN in 2019??Vista Ridge should be comfortably in Finals, while I unfortunately haven’t been able to see Reagan, I very much hope they’ll be in Medal/Eagle contention this year as well!

Edited by Vidal28
Some grammar issues
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My personal take on Team Texas rankings:

This is all based on recordings, music I've seen, the contests we've seen so far, and what would generally be expected, as well as expecting for Nationals to go ballistic over "GE". This will definitely change as soon as we get later into the season.

Reagan: absolutely cracked. nothing else. just cracked.

CTJ: what can i say, those judges will lose their minds when they see how the opposites attract. their props are so cool but the music is throwing me off so much LOL. not the biggest fan of their arrangement style but hey they'll probably go crazy at nats

Woodlands: will probably be a fan favorite show? great job at conroe guys!

Flower Mound: the most fun show you'll see. guard sousa props woo! go tubas!

Vista Ridge: the balls. i really do not like the e.t. music but hey it's vista! they could possibly go above flomo.

Marcus: if they do more with props imo, judges would go crazy over this. they could maybe be placed higher just because of music scores. i expect marcus to definitely do better than flomo in music.

Round Rock: yeah no comments about this. i really don't know what to say. great job at austin guys!

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After this weekend the picture for the Grand Nats Texas bands is starting to get a little clearer. Ronald Reagan look fantastic already, up there with the Woodlands and CTJ as potential medal contenders come November. Marcus was a pleasant surprise to me as well at HEB. They don't have the most difficult show but they're already very clean and at such a high level of performance this early on. Flower Mound apparently looked incredible at the Wylie competition as well, so DFW should give us a clearer idea of how the two LISD bands stack up to each other and the rest of the pack. And that's not even mentioning Vista Ridge and Round Rock, who both tend to peak late season. This will be the strongest Texas contingent in a long time, even moreso than 2019 I think.

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Broken Arrow. Say what you will about Wes Cartwright's relatively formulaic approach to design; it's a formula that works, and Cartwright keeps it fresh enough. It's called The Edge of Eternity, maybe a throwback to LD Bell's 2011 show, The Circle's Edge. We get some white wiry circular props (crescent moon w/ grass and circles?), which maybe are incomplete, but they look rather cool when they get spun around, are lined up in front of each other, pass by each other, etc. They help the band play with the space of the field. The visual program is nicely layered throughout, without being excessively busy. Music has a great narrative contour, for the most part. Opens with a flute solo, because of course. I love the interplay between the band and the guard. We don't get that as much in Texas. Some next-level movement challenges. We're getting more lifts performed by band members! And we're getting rifles this year, too! How great! The equipment skills are mostly pretty basic, but the guard sells them with a world class energy and clarity.

Broken Arrow's show this year (so far) is not a completely smooth ride, there are some dips in the entertainment -- for example, the opener drags on a bit -- and there are several groups that sound and look better than them at this point, all of which are in Texas. I don't think the show is completely unbeatable, but I will say, overall, there's a level of elegance to the music and especially visual design that is mostly lacking in Texas so far, outside of parts of the shows of that 2-4 group I mentioned earlier and The Woodlands' show, but that show is in service of emotions that seem more frivolous. Broken Arrow's show just cuts deeper. It sounds and looks like a show that, once it is clean and has all the bells and whistles added, will contend for the very top.

Now, where's Avon?

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1 hour ago, BandFan59 said:

Flower Mound has put themselves in Eagle contention for me after yesterday. I wasn't sold on this being a Grand Nationals winning show, but after seeing the closer on the field I think they're up there as contenders with Reagan, Broken Arrow, and Carmel.

Just out of curiosity, what have you seen from Carmel to say that are in contention for the Eagle? Also Avon seems to have a decent shot this year as well. Heck, CTJ does too. I think there could be 6 shows deserving of the title this year

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9 minutes ago, jmartin1056 said:

Just out of curiosity, what have you seen from Carmel to say that are in contention for the Eagle? Also Avon seems to have a decent shot this year as well. Heck, CTJ does too. I think there could be 6 shows deserving of the title this year

Their first performance at Dayton was really strong, and that was almost a month ago, so I'm assuming they've stayed on the same trajectory since then. I wouldn't pick them as winning the Eagle but they're still up there. I agree that there's even more shows that are deserving of the title. I really enjoy Avon's show with their music selections, and CTJ's is probably my favorite production of the year. There's just so many bands this year that are capable of winning it all.

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Avon is doing Avon. Those of us who have followed them the past couple of decades will probably recognize right away that they actually sound better in that video than they usually do in early September. That's not to say I'm especially impressed by the music execution, at least when compared to most of the Texas groups attending; I just know that Avon tends to figure that out later in the season, given the high demand of their drill program. Anyway, it's all very stirring stuff, kind of like Broken Arrow's show. The general tone is hopeful and uplifting. The music tells a great story. It kept my attention the entire time. Guard execution isn't the pure fire we'd expect yet, but they've got a very large vocabulary to work with. I saw that amazing WGI show this past season, so I know they haven't taken a hit! Drill program is about as engaging as usual, and of course super challenging.

I'm guessing it'll probably be Broken Arrow or Avon taking home the Eagle this year. That said, I thought Avon would probably win throughout most of 2019, until I saw the full show from the Indianapolis regional, then I thought there was an opening for Vandegrift to swoop in. Obviously it's not some foregone conclusion at this early-ish stage. I'm just leaning right now toward those two groups, with maybe one Texas group in the top 3, probably Flower Mound or The Woodlands, maybe CTJ or Reagan. But then there are so many other contenders, like Carmel, William Mason, and Blue Springs, that I'm not really sure.

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3 hours ago, Rubisco said:

Avon is doing Avon. Those of us who have followed them the past couple of decades will probably recognize right away that they actually sound better in that video than they usually do in early September. That's not to say I'm especially impressed by the music execution, at least when compared to most of the Texas groups attending; I just know that Avon tends to figure that out later in the season, given the high demand of their drill program. Anyway, it's all very stirring stuff, kind of like Broken Arrow's show. The general tone is hopeful and uplifting. The music tells a great story. It kept my attention the entire time. Guard execution isn't the pure fire we'd expect yet, but they've got a very large vocabulary to work with. I saw that amazing WGI show this past season, so I know they haven't taken a hit! Drill program is about as engaging as usual, and of course super challenging.

I'm guessing it'll probably be Broken Arrow or Avon taking home the Eagle this year. That said, I thought Avon would probably win throughout most of 2019, until I saw the full show from the Indianapolis regional, then I thought there was an opening for Vandegrift to swoop in. Obviously it's not some foregone conclusion at this early-ish stage. I'm just leaning right now toward those two groups, with maybe one Texas group in the top 3, probably Flower Mound or The Woodlands, maybe CTJ or Reagan. But then there are so many other contenders, like Carmel, William Mason, and Blue Springs, that I'm not really sure.

I am hopeful personally that if what many people are saying is true in this contingent of Texas bands attending Grand Nats being the strongest ever, I personally think 2019 still has a bit more sparkle considering how well every band did and performed!??Back to my main point, Texas still holds the crown and with that, the distinct style of Texas marching band still will hold a lot of sway with how bands will be judged, even if other out-state schools have more proclivities to other captions(GE, and Visual especially) it also helps that the MUSICAL styles of every band attending have their own flavor, same with 2019, it leaves more of an collective impression in my book personally than perhaps Avon’s or BA’s  unique visual design considering there’s more of the other distinct identifier of Texas groups and others. With the contest itself, if a Texas band can win 4A class champion in semis that could prove to be the difference ultimately. I’m definitely aware of my biases, but hey, I know what I enjoy when it comes to the activity and am glad that here at home there’s so much of that here!

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34 minutes ago, Samuel Culper said:

There seems to be a lot of conviction Texas only takes one of the top 3 spots.

Hmmmm.....

I am always cautiously optimistic about our hopes, mostly ‘cause I’m a big Texas homer. Just like last time around, 2 out of the three can always be in the cards!

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6 hours ago, Rubisco said:

Is that true? I feel like I'm the only one saying that!

Usually the question for the top Texas groups going up to Indianapolis is whether they can close a score gap in visual performance and visual GE via their music performance and music GE scores. I think it's entirely possible. That's what happened in 2019 for Vandegrift. Avon was first place in visual performance and visual GE, but music and music GE helped put Vandegrift over the edge. Let's face it, the musicianship from the top Texas groups is mostly unmatched. Avon, Carmel, and Broken Arrow are typically able to at least come close enough, but there aren't many others that can. The advantage those three groups have, then, is in drill rehearsal time, robust guard culture (for the Indiana groups), and amazing design teams, who absolutely understand the BOA rubric inside and out.

I harp on visual and design stuff a lot on these forums, because I feel like that's the aspect of marching band that Texas directors have a little bit more trouble understanding. But I also think it's increasingly becoming a myth that Texas groups are stuck in the mud with regards to visual design. There really are a much larger number of groups taking design risks in Texas, which is heartening.

This year in particular I'm just so happy we're getting any marching band at all. And the fact that it's being done at an extremely high level by so many groups is flat-out awesome. I applaud ALL of these groups.

You forget this is the TXBands forum where Texas bias is more allowed than other places ?

I'm a bit more confident in Texas taking at least 2 medals. I think this Texas group is stronger than the 2019 group that took 2 medals, and I'm not convinced Avon/Carmel's shows are strong enough to hold this group off the podium. BA is obviously the wild card, need to see a better video of that show before placing it. 

Musically, ABC is gonna have a tough time breaking the top 3. And then I think visually this is probably some of the more impressive visual packages Texas has sent recently...I think Reagan's visual design is and has been extremely impactful, FM is pretty close behind (and is a GE monster), and the Woodlands is bringing a guard that (while maybe not Avon level yet) is truly elite. I think Vandy and Hebron kind of popped the visual bubble in 2019, taking 2nd and 3rd in visual, with relatively tame visual packages. The difference with this years groups is that I think they have the VGE to backup competitive visual scores. And i haven't even mentioned CTJ and Marcus yet...

Consider me optimistic that this will be a big year for TX bands.

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I do believe a Texas band will win. I'm hoping it's Reagan because It'd be great for them to finally get one after barely missing out in 03 and 05.

Im still not entirely convinced this is a stronger group than 2019. It is still UIL Region week though. I'm not sure this year will play out too differently with respect to the visual caption though. I just don't see it going to a Texas band yet. Hopefully I'm wrong on all accounts. 

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10 hours ago, Rubisco said:

Usually the question for the top Texas groups going up to Indianapolis is whether they can close a score gap in visual performance and visual GE via their music performance and music GE scores. I think it's entirely possible. That's what happened in 2019 for Vandegrift

Excellent points and this is where Texas struggles. My honest opinion is that Vandegrift has figured it out. Too bad they aren’t attending GN this fall. What an incredible show Juliet Letters is!

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A conversation to be had another time centering around the “chicken or the egg” nature of the limited rehearsal time(compared to outside of Texas) and whether that is an excuse, or the cause of why Texas groups may lack in some certain design aspects. And I think it’s good to stick to the facts of the matter that those limitations exist, the location of Grand Nats being quite far from Texas of course can be another factor for a stressor to band programs that wanna make the trip compared to Midwestern groups that have that lessened with their geography. I won’t really account for that so much as the actual practice time that’s afforded to the schools here, and would very much love to envision the playing field being evened up in that respect alone, seeing what impacts that would have in the first few years after it’s implemented, production value, performance, expression, and complexity from Texas groups would, just based on my speculation of course not matter of fact, just be quite insane to see. This conversation is definitely not new, but it’s always fun to think about!

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A nonTexas friend of mine (delicately) pointed out to me that part of the reason Texas is always hyped for the top spots at GN this time of year is because by now the biggest name Texas bands have already been seen in 3-4 weeks of competition!  Most of the other top bands in the country have hardly been seen in any type of truly meaningful way at all yet, so honestly we don’t know where Texas stands against Avon, Carmel, Broken Arrow, etc. As badly as I want to say that it’s easy to predict Texas in the top spot(s), we just realistically don’t know what Texas is up against yet. And as Vandegrift showed us last Saturday, the band you expect to win isn’t always the band who does!!  Go Vandy. ? (Go LISD South!)

Lets just remember that ALL of the kids have worked hard this year, and failing to medal at GN doesn’t equal FAILURE in general. 

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1 hour ago, LeanderMomma said:

A nonTexas friend of mine (delicately) pointed out to me that part of the reason Texas is always hyped for the top spots at GN this time of year is because by now the biggest name Texas bands have already been seen in 3-4 weeks of competition!

That person is correct that there's always a lot of hype for certain TX groups, even before we've seen all of the groups. We've already experienced some of that and watched it fade here on these forums this season.

But part of that hype is also driven by inconsistent scoring. It's easy to look at Carmel's early season score this year, for instance, and then the scores from the top Texas groups just a week later and think, "Wow, Texas groups must be absolutely amazing this year!" Of course, they are. But are they actually that much better than Carmel? Probably not.

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