BandFriendzz Posted October 28, 2019 Report Share Posted October 28, 2019 I would have nothing to substantiate that claim. But who puts Haltom 20th in Music at a contest with 22 bands. I get that Daniel Cook has really good credentials though. I also saw that . And was very very confused . I mean I understand the run may of not been the best but 20th. Incorrect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpartanBandAlum Posted October 28, 2019 Report Share Posted October 28, 2019 I might agree with that if it wasn't for the fact that the scores are all over the map. Taking Propser for example one judge gave them a 14th placement for marching and the other gave them 4th. These types of swings should not happen. Prosper received 1st from one marching judge and 10th (out of 10) from the other at State Finals two years ago. Those kinds of spreads can and do happen in an activity as subjective as marching band FaultLineBlues and meursault 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlejaw Posted October 28, 2019 Report Share Posted October 28, 2019 Prosper received 1st from one marching judge and 10th (out of 10) from the other at State Finals two years ago. Those kinds of spreads can and do happen in an activity as subjective as marching band Anecdotally, it seems like the state marching competition (and the area contest at that) has less qualified judges that tend to lead to some very crazy spreads in the same subcaptions. This disparity is what leads to this forum being filled with calls to revamp the ordinals judging system after every state finals it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenBandDad Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 Now that I've had a day to take everything in, here are my thoughts as well: ... Also getting to see Allen start with an already massive group in a circle only to double the size of their band about a minute into their show was one of my favorite moments in prelims. Over the past three years, the directors have been working with the drill designers to build a show that uses the band's size as an asset to create effects that no other band of "normal" size can do, instead of trying to do the same type of shows other bands do, just bigger. They've used the last three years to really experiment with what works and doesn't work both visually and musically. I think Duncanville this year was the most competitive contest they have been in since I got involved seven years ago, and for them to finish 11th in prelims shows how far they have come. The kids have heard for years that they're "too big", "too messy", "too loud", and just can't compete. The directors have been working a hard to build a culture that ignores and defies that garbage, and make the kids believe in themselves. Everyone is very excited about what they should be able to accomplish next year. An Inspirational Pinecone 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoomer Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 Over the past three years, the directors have been working with the drill designers to build a show that uses the band's size as an asset to create effects that no other band of "normal" size can do, instead of trying to do the same type of shows other bands do, just bigger. They've used the last three years to really experiment with what works and doesn't work both visually and musically. I think Duncanville this year was the most competitive contest they have been in since I got involved seven years ago, and for them to finish 11th in prelims shows how far they have come. The kids have heard for years that they're "too big", "too messy", "too loud", and just can't compete. The directors have been working a hard to build a culture that ignores and defies that garbage, and make the kids believe in themselves. Everyone is very excited about what they should be able to accomplish next year. Too loud?! That's ridiculous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeanderMomma Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 It’s my dream to see the Allen Band live one day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSHSMom Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 I can't speak for less qualified judges, I would have no idea about one judge over another. But I do know that the consistency between the judges has always been an issue. I know when Plano East went to State in 2012, the same year they went to BOA finals, one judge had them as high a 9 (I think in music, but don't quote me on that!) and another judge had them as 32! But if you go back and look at the 2012 5A State thread, you can see it was a common theme even back then. Not surewhat can be done with the inconsistencies. I do think Texas is probably one of the most competitive states in the number of extremely talented organizations, so I think there will always be issues in what one person believes is the best show over the other. I just know all of these high school programs are deserving of recognition, whether they make finals or not. I see what happened to my high school band since I graduated (many, many years ago) when they lose the support of the education system, and it makes me feel blessed have my kids participate in such wonderful music programs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1998-2018 Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 It’s my dream to see the Allen Band live one day. It's a unique and worthwhile experience and it's getting even better. This year I really noticed how they are changing their drill to capitalize on their size. The way they are moving blocks of the band has definitely changed and I'm glad to hear it's intentionally purposeful. At multiple points throughout the show I was thinking, "Hey, that's cool, when did they start doing that?" It won't happen overnight but when they get to the point where they add movement within those large blocks, like the Keller closer or what the Madison Scouts did this summer, we can all be very afraid. Awesome potential. LeanderMomma and AllenBandDad 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeanderMomma Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 Maybe next year I will get up there to the Duncanville Marching Invitational! Of course next year is a 6A State year so attendance may be way down at this contest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
principalagent Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 Maybe next year I will get up there to the Duncanville Marching Invitational! Of course next year is a 6A State year so attendance may be way down at this contest. It’ll actually probably be pretty solid depending on the weekend. It’s one of the best chances to get UIL quality feedback before the SMBC. 1998-2018 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeanderMomma Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 It’ll actually probably be pretty solid depending on the weekend. It’s one of the best chances to get UIL quality feedback before the SMBC. Well they would need to have it sooner in the season right? With Area being the same weekend this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
principalagent Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 Well they would need to have it sooner in the season right? With Area being the same weekend this year. Every year area is kinda ruining this one. Didn’t think about that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellyfishes Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 If your band didn’t perform as well as you’d hope to here, I’d stop using the justification that the band you support is a “BOA band.” That says that you have no faith in the talent of your performers and you have to have GE in order to score well. It’s not really proving that your band is as great as they may be meursault 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BandFriendzz Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 If your band didn’t perform as well as you’d hope to here, I’d stop using the justification that the band you support is a “BOA band.” That says that you have no faith in the talent of your performers and you have to have GE in order to score well. It’s not really proving that your band is as great as they may be Or it’s the fact that the boa judging system is way better than the state judging system. Just stating facts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abtwitch Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 Or it’s the fact that the boa judging system is way better than the state judging system. Just stating facts I wouldn't be so ready to say that one style of judging is objectively better than the other. Both systems serve different purposes and are built around their respective purposes. BOA emphasizes audience enjoyment and the "experience," so show design is heavily taken into account. Meanwhile, UIL judges cleanliness and execution alone, thus the general ignorance of show design. BOA is an entertainment priority system while UIL prioritizes assessment. Just stating facts. That's not to say you can't prefer one judging style to the other, I personally prefer BOA myself and wish UIL would at least lean into show design if even just a little bit. Maybe try not to be so snippy and think before you post next time meursault 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nny14 Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 If your band didn’t perform as well as you’d hope to here, I’d stop using the justification that the band you support is a “BOA band.” That says that you have no faith in the talent of your performers and you have to have GE in order to score well. It’s not really proving that your band is as great as they may be The difference between BOA and UIL based events is much more than just the absence of GE. The parameters for evaluating music and visual performance have entirely different standards in the separate circuits. Programing to specific sheets matters, it has nothing much to do with lack of talent. Avon has all the talent in the world but I think they'd find themselves struggling to medal at 6A State based on how they approach show design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1998-2018 Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 Responding only because questions were asked: Is it ridiculous to think a band might intentionally take on a show with more difficulty than most years simply because they know they have a longer season in which to clean? Absolutely not, bands do it all the time. But that's not pacing. Why must this imply that they are avoiding getting as clean as possible as soon as possible? It doesn't. Pacing does, i.e., not to slow, but also not to fast, so you peak/finish at the right time. This forum reminds me of some DCI forums, which is to say "pedantic". Okay, having a daughter who has moved on to DCI, that made me laugh. The comment is articulate, respectful, on point, and well meaning, even though it's clearly not a compliment. Trust me, I was bored with this tedium long ago. ja2austintx is right, can we stop beating this poor dead horse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1998-2018 Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 If your band didn’t perform as well as you’d hope to here, I’d stop using the justification that the band you support is a “BOA band.” That says that you have no faith in the talent of your performers and you have to have GE in order to score well. It’s not really proving that your band is as great as they may be That's an interesting point and it's supported by the fact that BOA San Antonio and 6A SMBC both include the usual suspects in Finals. The placements may vary a bit but the players are practically identical. meursault 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1998-2018 Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 Maybe try not to be so snippy and think before you post next time Really?!? What's gotten into the group tonight? It seems like you could have followed your own advice and stopped typing one sentence sooner. Just a thought...a very ironic thought... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1998-2018 Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 Avon has all the talent in the world but I think they'd find themselves struggling to medal at 6A State based on how they approach show design. Hmm, maybe...but that could be a bit of an overstatement and I doubt they would struggle for long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Band_dad_of_2 Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 Or it’s the fact that the boa judging system is way better than the state judging system. Just stating facts But this line of thinking completely ignores the fact that the top 5 at Duncanville also do incredibly well at BOA events. It's not "better", it's just different....if you have a clean BOA show at a state-type contest, you'll do well. If you have a poor performance, well......... meursault 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post LKendrick Posted October 29, 2019 Popular Post Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 All that I really have to say is that being there all day, I really feel like the judges judged the performances of the day. Maybe two or three I personally would have moved up or down a little bit, but not a lot different. 2019 as a whole has taken what we expect to see in results from a lot of bands and just completely turned that on its head. There's usually a lot of complaining that it's the same old bands in the same placements just kinda shuffling around a bit. But now that we have had some pretty surprising results, there's again some push back, but now that the judges don't know what they're doing, the results are crazy, etc. And I get being a little upset if a band you're associated with doesn't do as well as you had hoped. Three out of four years of my high school band experience we barely made finals and were constantly the first one out, etc. Probably not even a month from now that will have all settled and you can remember the stuff that really matters. meursault, 1998-2018, HighSchoolBandNerd212 and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Band_dad_of_2 Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 All that I really have to say is that being there all day, I really feel like the judges judged the performances of the day. Maybe two or three I personally would have moved up or down a little bit, but not a lot different. 2019 as a whole has taken what we expect to see in results from a lot of bands and just completely turned that on its head. There's usually a lot of complaining that it's the same old bands in the same placements just kinda shuffling around a bit. But now that we have had some pretty surprising results, there's again some push back, but now that the judges don't know what they're doing, the results are crazy, etc. And I get being a little upset if a band you're associated with doesn't do as well as you had hoped. Three out of four years of my high school band experience we barely made finals and were constantly the first one out, etc. Probably not even a month from now that will have all settled and you can remember the stuff that really matters. This...is...spot on. Take responsibility for your result and don't blame the judges....own it! It's like fans blaming umpires for their team losing a big game. No, your team didn't play well enough to win. Rarely...very rarely...is it the umpire. meursault 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX_Band Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 I think the problem here and why results vary from contest to contest is the fact that there is not a consistent criteria or judging rubric used across all contests and that will yield different results. If Duncanville was using a UIL sheet then it all comes down to who is cleanest period and end of story. The UIL sheet doesn't take into account anything other than execution. It doesn't care about entertainment, effect, difficulty or any of the other factors that actually make the activity interesting and entertaining. It focuses solely on how clean a show is musically and visually period. I happen to think the UIL sheets don't fully reward the marching band activity as it is today, other will disagree and that's ok. Stop worrying about results and just enjoy the performances. PSHSMom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ja2austintx Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 For sake of argument, let me ask this with regards to music, even though it could also be asked of visual performance: In a UIL competition, if two bands play the heck out of their book, with zero room for criticism, would they be expected to tie on the judges' sheets, or would the band that plays the more difficult music tend to come out ahead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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