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Yes.  A committee has come up with and disseminated new forms with a survey to all band directors around the state.  The way the survey is worded makes it seems like everything is still up for change if needed.

 

Essentially, the region marching sheets would look pretty similar to the way they always have, but design/difficulty are given a *slightly* more prominent focus.  

 

I believe Area is also very similar, but design and demand are given even more credence on each of the sheets, and the term "movement" seems to have replaced "marching" in many instances.  There could be more differences, but it's been a few weeks since I looked at them. 

 

State sheets are where the biggest changes lie.  Essentially, they've proposed something that's more akin to DCI judging: a WW sheet, a brass sheet, a percussion sheet, an individual visual sheet, an ensemble visual sheet, and a design sheet.  Each sheet includes content and achievement categories, and all are assigned 200 points.  It looks like a separate judge would be responsible for each caption, but that wasn't made clear in the survey.  Like I said, it's been a few weeks, so I could have gotten some details wrong...potentially some very important details, but that's what I remember right now off the top of my head.  

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I personally dislike the idea that State and Area sheets would be different. Regardless of any changes, they should be the same to promote consistency and make Area good preparation for state. Just hopping between UIL and BOA shows how hard it can be to design and teach to different sheets--that shouldn't have to happen within the same circuit.

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I personally dislike the idea that State and Area sheets would be different. Regardless of any changes, they should be the same to promote consistency and make Area good preparation for state. Just hopping between UIL and BOA shows how hard it can be to design and teach to different sheets--that shouldn't have to happen within the same circuit.

Yes I was wondering about that. Why wouldn’t they stay the same from Area to State?!?!

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That's a good question. Unfortunately, I can't answer it with any certainty. My best guess is that people have been wanting to add judges to the state contest for years, and this is a way to do that while making the sheets more specific and the massive gaps in rankings less likely. I also dislike that the three levels of contests all have different sheets, but it's possible that finding 6 qualified judges for all the areas may be a but of a challenge.

 

Also, they're looking at making the Area contest a yearly thing in order to allow band programs the ability to shoot for a UIL championship on non state years without the expense of traveling to state. Unfortunately, the weekend they're looking at is BOASA.

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Also, they're looking at making the Area contest a yearly thing in order to allow band programs the ability to shoot for a UIL championship on non state years without the expense of traveling to state. Unfortunately, the weekend they're looking at is BOASA.

NOOO! Oh my goodness surely not. I can see the appeal for non BOA bands, but there are far too many that do BOA SA! There’s always a weekend between regions and San Antonio so surely they could take that last October weekend for Area.

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The reason they’re doing it is to curb the influence of BOA. I think it honestly might be too late at this point.

Ha. Yeah, wayyyyyyyy too late. Thing is, there’s room for both!!! <smh> I don’t understand anyone affiliated with UIL marching bands who doesn’t see the benefits of both. And they can peacefully coexist!

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What has driven the meteoric rise of show quality across multiple programs in Texas, UIL or BOA? My answer is BOA. Seems to me you should embrace that and even work with it to make more improvements. It isn't just about money (talk about another dead horse topic), or winning, it is about experience, especially at the high school level. BOA has pushed programs to achieve more than they would have otherwise (in my opinion). Nothing really wrong with UIL, but it isn't pushing the boundaries.

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Its kinda hard.

 

Personally, I don't like BOA.  They are a for profit organization.  Yes, as a spectator, you get to see amazing shows..the format pushes bands to the extreme.  However, you are nickle and dime all the dam time.  $5 to park or $20 to park. Pay to see prelims..pay to see finals...pay $10 for a program.  The bands still pay to enter every competition.  That means that there will be bands who will never attend BOA because they simply cannot afford the travel and entry fee. 

 

Then there is the whole thing about how BOA is fixed...and that you see the same bands over and over again in finals.  Lots of band parents are getting in the heads of their directors and telling them that they don't want their kids to do BOA because there isn't a very good return on their $1000 a year investment for little Johnny to be in band.

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Its kinda hard.

 

Personally, I don't like BOA.  They are a for profit organization.  Yes, as a spectator, you get to see amazing shows..the format pushes bands to the extreme.  However, you are nickle and dime all the dam time.  $5 to park or $20 to park. Pay to see prelims..pay to see finals...pay $10 for a program.  The bands still pay to enter every competition.  That means that there will be bands who will never attend BOA because they simply cannot afford the travel and entry fee. 

 

Then there is the whole thing about how BOA is fixed...and that you see the same bands over and over again in finals.  Lots of band parents are getting in the heads of their directors and telling them that they don't want their kids to do BOA because there isn't a very good return on their $1000 a year investment for little Johnny to be in band.

 

I understand how it feels like it's the same bands over and over because it's "fixed", but it's not.  So many bands are consistently at the top, because they are THAT GOOD.  You see movement in and out of the top groups every year.

 

If your band seems to never move up into the top groups, it can feel "fixed".

 

The money thing is another matter.  I'd love to see a detailed summary of their finances, particularly on a contest-by-contest basis.  They bring in a lot of money and depend on a lot of local volunteers to do most of the work.  Yes, those volunteers are working for a local organization (boosters) that benefits from the contest, but I am very curious about how the proceeds are split.

 

But, they are a private organization. Transparency is not gonna happen.

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Music for All is definitely a nonprofit 501©(3) organization... one that rarely operates at a profit, and those profits aren’t huge. Additionally, the band events subsidize (1) other band events and (2) the choir and orchestra offerings which are assured financial losses. MFA has problems, but let’s not suggest they’re a Walmart or Amazon. You can Google and find their 990 forms.

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I'm personally all for annual area competitions, but scheduling it the same weekend as BOA SA is just a bad idea all around in my opinion. Problems with this could be (some as mentioned above):

  • Districts forcing bands that normally go to BOA that weekend to do UIL instead
  • Lower attendance due to bands going to BOA instead, especially in Areas where almost all (if not all) the top contenders have gone to BOA for years (i.e. Area D with Reagan, Bowie, CTJ, Hendrickson, CR, RR, Hays, WW, and Churchill all being regulars at BOA SA, which were the top 9 area finalists from 2018)
  • Some bands tend to end their seasons early on non-state years and they do that for different reasons, but districts that force bands to attend would be effected by this.

I'll add more as I think of them/read them but this is just my list for now.

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Texas bands wouldn't be where they are today without UIL, and UIL would probably be a lot more popular if they did a better job at hosting yearly contests, better judging systems, and started this every year area thing MUCH earlier. Having a state-sponsored marching contest gives school districts reasons to fund band programs now that their state's main circuit is now giving them a competition outlet, especially in UIL where the Lone Star cup gives schools motivation to make sure all their programs are successful. Take a look at Arkansas for example, they just started a SMC in 2016, and I personally think the quality of bands there has significantly increased in that short period of time. 

 

Here's my thoughts about every year area-

Whether you like it or not, the majority of bands in Texas are NOT focused on Bands of America, and this would give them a great outlet to have an end of the year championship that'll again encourage schools to greater support the band program. Although, I HIGHLY disagree with scheduling it on the same as BOA SA, that would just cause a lot of 6A and even some 5A Area contests to just be full of skips, not only that, but since it's a UIL event, some school districts might force their bands to attend area over BOA SA, and I think that's unfair and bands should be given the choice. I'm not a band director, but if I was and my band was BOA focused, I would choose SA, if it was not for whatever reason, I would choose area, but sadly my school district may not give me this choice. This would also probably upset a lot of students and parents who were looking forward to BOA SA. Scheduling all Area contests on the same day on the other hand, although makes the most sense scheduling wise, you have to think about the judging situation so many of us are already complaining about. Having what would be a whopping 33 contests to host, which would make finding qualified judges an issue. That's 165 judges to hire, and that's under the assumption the judging doesn't change and we don't add more judges to 5A/6A Area Contests like as planned with state currently.

 

Potentially, although VERY VERY unlikely, maybe we could turn the every year area idea into a UIL sponsored "Regional" championship, similar to area, but combining certain areas to have a larger competition, especially since a lot of bands will skip for BOA anyway. For example, we could combine 6A Areas B and C into one "DFW" championship, this would make up for the massive amount of bands who would skip, and I doubt many bands would mind a bit of extra travel for this. For 2A-4A, and maybe even 5A, we can probably just leave it the same, especially given what huge distances small school areas cover already. This idea probably wouldn't ever happen though, and I'm sure someone here can think of a good argument as to why it's not a viable idea.

 

Lets start here:

"Texas bands wouldn't be where they are today without UIL, and UIL would probably be a lot more popular if they did a better job at hosting yearly contests,"  Hmm. This is not provable either way, and I don't accept it as an axiom. UIL, as the state "championship" absolutely has a place. Is it why Texas bands are where they are today conclusively? Unlikely. From what I've read, and please correct me if I am wrong - Texas today is recognized in the national music education scene as a destination. This is not because people outside of Texas pay much attention to UIL. It is because they see the large number of Texas bands at primarily BOA contests around the country performing at really high levels and choose to investigate further. Without this influx of new ideas from around the country, Texas would not be where it is today in the band world. As a non-native Texan, my view of UIL is as an organization that is not interested in promoting the performing arts. It is primarily interested in pushing sports. And that is fine, but it is not what I would choose to hitch my wagon on for marching band.

 

"Whether you like it or not, the majority of bands in Texas are NOT focused on Bands of America, and this would give them a great outlet to have an end of the year championship that'll again encourage schools to greater support the band program." Whether I like it or not? Little too aggressive. Like has nothing to do with the opinion I expressed. I am not in the music education world, so I have zero vested interest and don't like or dislike BOA or UIL in the sense your statement implies. As a spectator, BOA contests are better across the board in my opinion. Does that make UIL "bad"? Of course not. Does that mean everyone should do BOA? Of course not - was that even implied? If UIL wants to do something, then they will do it. The real issue is that UIL can mandate things that BOA can't, and if UIL does so out of pique, then it is a <<family friendly website>> organization that deserves to be ignored. UIL and BOA have offerings that can be mutually beneficial. Turning the relationship into a competition between the two is misguided and ultimately does nothing but hurt both. No one can force a band to participate in BOA, but a Texas band can be forced to participate in UIL. We should not hope that this is the chosen path. Having an annual regional/area "championship" is fine in my view. But, do it in a way that benefits everyone. That is the approach that is correct, not "forcing' participation because of some nebulous "threat" from BOA.

 

On many of those last points, I think we have lots and lots of common ground. We may differ on how we view UIL/BOA, but the path forward per our messages is essentially the same - let the programs have the choice of what to attend!

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Lets start here:

"Texas bands wouldn't be where they are today without UIL, and UIL would probably be a lot more popular if they did a better job at hosting yearly contests,"  Hmm. This is not provable either way, and I don't accept it as an axiom. UIL, as the state "championship" absolutely has a place. Is it why Texas bands are where they are today conclusively? Unlikely. From what I've read, and please correct me if I am wrong - Texas today is recognized in the national music education scene as a destination. This is not because people outside of Texas pay much attention to UIL. It is because they see the large number of Texas bands at primarily BOA contests around the country performing at really high levels and choose to investigate further. Without this influx of new ideas from around the country, Texas would not be where it is today in the band world. As a non-native Texan, my view of UIL is as an organization that is not interested in promoting the performing arts. It is primarily interested in pushing sports. And that is fine, but it is not what I would choose to hitch my wagon on for marching band.

 

"Whether you like it or not, the majority of bands in Texas are NOT focused on Bands of America, and this would give them a great outlet to have an end of the year championship that'll again encourage schools to greater support the band program." Whether I like it or not? Little too aggressive. Like has nothing to do with the opinion I expressed. I am not in the music education world, so I have zero vested interest and don't like or dislike BOA or UIL in the sense your statement implies. As a spectator, BOA contests are better across the board in my opinion. Does that make UIL "bad"? Of course not. Does that mean everyone should do BOA? Of course not - was that even implied? If UIL wants to do something, then they will do it. The real issue is that UIL can mandate things that BOA can't, and if UIL does so out of pique, then it is a <<family friendly website>> organization that deserves to be ignored. UIL and BOA have offerings that can be mutually beneficial. Turning the relationship into a competition between the two is misguided and ultimately does nothing but hurt both. No one can force a band to participate in BOA, but a Texas band can be forced to participate in UIL. We should not hope that this is the chosen path. Having an annual regional/area "championship" is fine in my view. But, do it in a way that benefits everyone. That is the approach that is correct, not "forcing' participation because of some nebulous "threat" from BOA.

 

On many of those last points, I think we have lots and lots of common ground. We may differ on how we view UIL/BOA, but the path forward per our messages is essentially the same - let the programs have the choice of what to attend!

 

 

My apologies, I didn't mean to come off as rude saying "Whether you like it or not". But I do think you're right and we can all agree, give the programs a choice.

 

It's a touchy subject, host it on the BOA SA weekend, lots of bands may lose that choice thanks to their school districts, host it on the regular area weekend, you create issues finding enough judges and venues (Especially since lots of band directors who would usually judge area are now taking their bands to area too). I'm sure there's a way to work it out having it all on the same weekend though, I think even for non-BOA bands, pushing area to November is somewhat ridiculous, lots of bands want to be done before November. I love both UIL and BOA, and I want UIL to have this to give more groups opportunities, but UIL should try it's best to not conflict with BOA events, especially such hugely popular events like SA.

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As a former marching band player, and now the parent of a band student, I'm kinda shocked at how some feel BOA is better than UIL.  UIL IS the standard for the State of Texas. Not only do they dictate the rules for academic eligibility, but they do it for athletics and theater.   Many schools, like my alma mater, simply cannot afford to attend one BOA event, even the one that is hosted near them.  The cost of putting together elaborate shows for visual effect puts the majority of bands out of the running for ever attending a BOA show.  

 

I think of what I invested in my kid's band last year.  

 

$997 for standard fees

$1000 in fund raising 

not to mention my time in volunteering for chaperones, snack bar, hosting events etc etc.

 

There is no way in heck that my little old high school would be able to have EVERY parent commit that KIND of money every year for their kid to participate.  

 

And don't get me wrong, I am fortunate enough to have an awesome job to be able to afford to pay and will do it every year because I love my child..and I love our band community and family.  But BOA literally keeps those little/poor schools out.  UIL is for everyone in Texas.

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My interpretation from this entire thread was that we all agree that there is a place for both UIL and BOA. I personally find BOA style marching shows to be much more exciting and entertaining than the more UIL friendly ones, but I don’t see a consensus of people saying one is better than the other.

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As a former marching band player, and now the parent of a band student, I'm kinda shocked at how some feel BOA is better than UIL.  UIL IS the standard for the State of Texas. Not only do they dictate the rules for academic eligibility, but they do it for athletics and theater.   Many schools, like my alma mater, simply cannot afford to attend one BOA event, even the one that is hosted near them.  The cost of putting together elaborate shows for visual effect puts the majority of bands out of the running for ever attending a BOA show.  

 

I think of what I invested in my kid's band last year.  

 

$997 for standard fees

$1000 in fund raising 

not to mention my time in volunteering for chaperones, snack bar, hosting events etc etc.

 

There is no way in heck that my little old high school would be able to have EVERY parent commit that KIND of money every year for their kid to participate.  

 

And don't get me wrong, I am fortunate enough to have an awesome job to be able to afford to pay and will do it every year because I love my child..and I love our band community and family.  But BOA literally keeps those little/poor schools out.  UIL is for everyone in Texas.

 

I'll echo LeanderMomma. No one is pushing for Texas bands to do BOA unless they wish to do so. Conversely, UIL will continue to be the Texas state championship circuit. Other states have the same situation. What I see happening is that the large bands that also do BOA are starting to push farther and farther, and are leaving the schools that don't do BOA behind. So the non-BOA bands in 5A and 6A aren't able to compete as closely as they once did. To me that is the point - get better. It is possible to get better without doing BOA. So instead of trying to chop down the bands that choose to do BOA, get better without doing BOA. It can be done.

 

Plenty of bands attend BOA shows that have no intention of competing for the contest win or even making finals. They don't have elaborate shows or props - they just go out and do their show for the critical feedback, and some take the opportunity to watch the "big dogs" do their thing. When I was going to my small, podunk high school in rural KY, I always appreciated seeing the big schools with the big shows and big sounds that we could never, ever hope to compete with. So? Go out and do your show to the best you can. That is the point. Who cares if it is UIL, BOA, USBands, ISSMA, or whatever. Let the programs choose their level of competition and the resources they are willing to commit.

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