Is CTJ's Show an Homage to Donald J Trump?

[LostChoirGuy]

I'm sure none of us could possibly think CTJ is anything but stellar. It is true that when any group breaks boundaries and is at the top of their respective field they will face more criticism and questioning than their opponents. I dont think that is a bad thing, but we should remember that in the end, these are students doing everything they can with what they have been given.

 

Also, I think there was confusion with my statement that CTJ is the frontrunner of the uniform movement. I'm not implying that they are the first to do so, but that they are literally the front-runners because there is nobody really ahead of them in the competition so they are the most visible. It looks like Cedar Park has a unique design in uniform this year, too.

[FEDude]

Politics isn't new to the marching arts.This board has been getting way too offended by politics, and not even by specific beliefs, just the concept of politics in general.

 

Controversy isn't inherently bad and it's largely how programs like Northmont Color Guard 1996 and Churchill 2008 (though this was also a really really good show) live on in people's memories.

 

Once again, no one is doubting the kids are performing the heck out of this show. It's Johnson after all. Not a single person on this board has insulted anything within your childrens' control.

 

We formally and most cordially apologize for interpreting art. We will never commit that sin again.

[Dog885]

Unrelated to the topic, but I have a CTJ question. Who pays for CTJ to have a new BOA uniform every year? That has to be quite expensive to change unis every single season like they appear to have done the past two! It’s like DCI, and we all know how expensive DCI is!

 

I’m feeling old and crotchety this morning but I’m starting to miss old school band uniforms, especially in DCI. I can see the band world changing so much and at a very fast pace here recently. I love all the glitz and glamour as much as the next girl, but when is it just too much for a high school?

I was told something about a lot of Snapple money

[LeanderMomma]

I have long enjoyed reading posts on this site.  This is my first time posting anything.   Since I have no tolerance for anything Trump,  I am hoping this is not true.  That would make me lose all respect for what this program has given my kids. 

 

Welcome Johnson momma!  I can't imagine that the CTJ directors are trying to push any sort of political agenda.  I like the whole MLK Jr angle, myself.  He was all about love.  In fact, many of the things MLK stood for have been distorted over the years.  He was not about dividing people.  He was a unifier.  And he's right.  We can only drive darkness out with light and hatred out with love.  So I'm choosing to stand united with CTJ and look at the bright side of this theme, to show LOVE in a tremendously huge way, which is the side Martin Luther King Jr would have stood on!  We as humans can agree to disagree on things politically and religiously, but we simply can NOT navigate this life without love.  

[LeanderMomma]

while I seriously doubt that was the intent - love it or hate it - people are talking about the show....and that is always good - no such thing as bad press.

 

for those that have passed judgement on the show without seeing it - I will sell you a copy -funds will be split to our new uniform fund and a political candidate of my choice

 

have a great day and enjoy the new season -

 

   

[Dog885]

I still think that they should add, Under The Sea into the show

[LeanderMomma]

I was told something about a lot of Snapple money

 

On a lighter note, I have to tell a bit of a funny story about the time we played Lake Travis in football.  Lake Travis is located in a fairly affluent area and their stadium and jumbotron definitely showcase that affluence.  When Leander scores a first down at our home stadium, the announcer just comes on and says, "This first down is brought to you by Bush's Chicken."  But that night at Lake Travis, every time they scored a first down (which was about once every 10 to 15 seconds  -- poor Leander), a Lexus would zoom across their Jumbotron and it would say, "this first down is brought to you by Lexus."  I laughed so hard the first time that Lexus zoomed across the screen!  I thought, "well this totally says it all, don't it?!"  (country twang intended).

 

Nothing against Lake Travis!  I love them!  And actually, now, Leander ISD has Jumbotrons in all of our stadiums as well, as of this summer.     We still have our chicken sponsors too.  

[LeanderMomma]

I still think that they should add, Under The Sea into the show

 

YES, YES, YES!!!!!

[whitewing09]

I’m glad that we’re having this conversation because it captures so many nuances that can be discussed not only regarding band, but discourse in general. Warning: Spoilers after my soapbox. 

 

The impetus behind publishing this thread isn’t to make a statement about the performance or talent of the children performing the show.

1. The design of a show cannot be beyond reproach and we need to divorce the children’s execution of the show from the design, which was created by adults, to have a meaningful conversation.
2. I intentional crafted the message to make commentary on the design of the show.

No American themed show can be apolitical, which a wise friend pointed out to me. And, that's not bad. I realized: 

1. Politics by definition encompasses the decisions-making and norms in a society, which are directly related the allocation of resources and the narratives presented.
2. If you are doing an eight minute (or in this case 13+ min) American show you are inherently choosing a perspective of America to represent and making a political statement.

Perception is a reality for the arts, which is why it is imperative for designers to be meticulous in their construction of a show to convey a meaning that isn’t confusing. Again, this is completely separate from making a comment on the kids who perform the show.

 

From an optimistic perspective: this show is merely confusing amalgamation of very good pieces that the students will perform at a high level of excellence.

 

From a critical perspective: this show conveys a very confusing message—in a problematic way-- and raises a lot questions that most shows don’t. If we look at other patriotic shows like Churchill 2007 and Bell 2012, they did not leave open ended statements via design.

 

Just from beginning to end, it was hard to understand why the show starts off in a peaceful sea and somehow ends up with the America the Beautiful... It's a weird coincidence to start the show with Ritcher recomposition of Vivaldi and Grainger's Lisbon (Italian + Portuguese) along well three boats (La Nina, La Pinta, and Santa Maria), that don’t seem all that engaged. The preshow has a nice smooth feeling which precedes a powerful quote from MLK, which turns into an aggressive/dark Barber #1. It then transitions to some MLK/Kennedy work and a peaceful ballad. Then we get a prominent quote from Ronald Reagan’s inauguration followed by the most grandiose/uplifting part of the show with Ward. 

 

The show seems to go Peace (with Columbus) -> MLK -> Dark -> MLK/Kennedy -> Amazing Grace -> Reagan -> American Glory. 

 

It leaves the audience questioning:

1. What is the show trying to convey with its props, voiceovers, and arrangement, both musical and organizational.
2. How is the messaging accomplished with the aforementioned?
3. What is the audience supposed to understand about the show?

If we want to get really political: why is MLK's most pronounced moment followed by a darker part of the show, while Reagan's very pronounced quote is followed by the peace and grandeur of Grainger, Copeland, Ward? The use of MLK isn't too controversial, so it makes sense that it's a main centerpiece. However, to a lot of American, Reagan is a very polarizing figure because his policies and a lot of his social commentary was divisive. Many would argue that seeds of division sewn in the 80s have festered into deep-seated divides that we’ve seen now. We happen to have a president who likes to use the divisive rhetoric that is a product of the aforementioned period. All of this is just very peculiar, especially with the coincidental name that is almost truly a reference to our president who loves to use patriotism in his grandstanding.

 

I'm not saying CTJ band kids should be shamed. They are talented and should be celebrated. However, its hard to understand the overall message of the show because of the design, more so than most other patriotic shows done by top bands.   

[LeanderMomma]

I think you’re thinking it to death.

[Bandmomoftexas]

Wow....I recently saw this show when they were in San Marcos and played our local football team.  I did not get the Trump vibe at all.  Google Passion Pit's Tremendous Sea of Love and read what it was about.  Google MLK quotes.  Google Bobby Kennedy quotes.  What I took away from the show was that it shows our nation's history. If you think it has anything to do with Trump, you are reaching way to far.

Funny, Passion Pit also got criticized for using the same title.

See the show, listen, and enjoy before you start rumors about a fantastic band.

[CTJBandPops]

Hi!

It’s been cool to see some discussion - and some interesting perspectives on the show. Not sure if it’s based on video or actual performances. Either way … normally I don’t post much, but since there’s a bit of chatter I want to offer this perspective.

 

Tremendous Sea of Love … a show about hope. It is not connected to DJT. It connects to a Passion Pit album Darryl and I like.

 

A show that honors Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and Senator Bobby Kennedy on the 50th anniversary of their death, while also paying homage to the strength and beauty of our nation, and the bright hope that students inspire for the future.

Those who know us … a show about a rabbit … a show about dancing … a show about a lizard .. a show about a forrest … while there are some deep meanings … sometimes it’s face value.

 

The beginning of the show starts on calm waters …

The three ships encounter terrible storms. The storms are a metaphor for the shooting of Dr. Martin Luther King - you’ll hear riot sound effects that parallel the anger the country felt, like thunder and storms on the sea. Bobby Kennedy’s words the night of MLK’s death remind us that “we have faced difficult times as a country … we will face difficult times again” The ships come through the storms and out into open waters.

The ballad .. the water is wide .. represents the division the country faced and has faced … and how through MLK’s vision for love … we could unite America. You’ll see the two sides of the field come together and unite.

 

The closer … celebrating love as American’s. Reagan reminds through his words about the strength and resolve of the American People, who can achieve anything. This parallels King and Kennedy. In an effort to NOT be political and appeal to all sides, President Reagan’s quotations focus mainly on all americans having the ability to love one another, love their country … and achieve anything we set our minds to do.

The three ships - at the end - discover America. 

 

We can make it through any storms. Including this message thread :-)

 

Enjoy sailing the Tremendous Sea of Love with us …

 

Thanks,

Jarrett

I still have that video for those that have not seen it - just $19.99 from KTel - it comes with a Free Chicken Plucker and and a personalized door mat. - phone lines are open now - tell your friends

[LeanderMomma]

Hi!

It’s been cool to see some discussion - and some interesting perspectives on the show. Not sure if it’s based on video or actual performances. Either way … normally I don’t post much, but since there’s a bit of chatter I want to offer this perspective.

Tremendous Sea of Love … a show about hope. It is not connected to DJT. It connects to a Passion Pit album Darryl and I like.

A show that honors Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and Senator Bobby Kennedy on the 50th anniversary of their death, while also paying homage to the strength and beauty of our nation, and the bright hope that students inspire for the future.

Those who know us … a show about a rabbit … a show about dancing … a show about a lizard .. a show about a forrest … while there are some deep meanings … sometimes it’s face value.

 

The beginning of the show starts on calm waters …

The three ships encounter terrible storms. The storms are a metaphor for the shooting of Dr. Martin Luther King - you’ll hear riot sound effects that parallel the anger the country felt, like thunder and storms on the sea. Bobby Kennedy’s words the night of MLK’s death remind us that “we have faced difficult times as a country … we will face difficult times again” The ships come through the storms and out into open waters.

The ballad .. the water is wide .. represents the division the country faced and has faced … and how through MLK’s vision for love … we could unite America. You’ll see the two sides of the field come together and unite.

The closer … celebrating love as American’s. Reagan reminds through his words about the strength and resolve of the American People, who can achieve anything. This parallels King and Kennedy. In an effort to NOT be political and appeal to all sides, President Reagan’s quotations focus mainly on all americans having the ability to love one another, love their country … and achieve anything we set our minds to do.

The three ships - at the end - discover America.

 

We can make it through any storms. Including this message thread :-)

 

Enjoy sailing the Tremendous Sea of Love with us …

 

Thanks,

Jarrett

Now THAT is an explanation!

 

Great to hear directly from the band directors on occasion. Bummed to hear that there won't be any Little Mermaid music in this show.

[ctjbandmom]

This thread is cause to remember today is International Peace Day. Every kid in every marching program works too hard to have any negativity. Thank you to all those who expressed support.

 

(And thank you for the welcome Leandermama-I feel like I know you after reading your posts over the years)

[FEDude]

Thank you to Mr. Lipman for a quick analysis of the show. We can all assume it has deeper meanings, but thank you for pointing us in the right direction.

 

Please remember what this post started as before people began to be offended and angry: a discussion, a question, an interpretation. None of these are discouraged on the board as far as I know. If I behaved inappropriately, please message me and I will apologize.

 

Perhaps civil discourse really is dead. No one who brought up the Trump interpretation insulted any of the kids performing. Quite the opposite actually. Johnson tops TMEA Region and Area lists, frequently contends for honor band, has set the standard for visual performance in Texas, and has won two BOA SA's with shows that have received nothing but praise. Everyone who brought up the Trump argument had that tight in their minds, knowing the kids were talented, and classy to top it off. You guys have raised America's finest and have reasons to be proud.

 

With the exception of a few though, some parents connected to Johnson's name have visciously responded. Specifically that soap box comment. I'm gonna let whitewhing respond to that specifically, but wow.

 

Like ctjbandmom said, it's International Peace Day. Let's take a chapter from her book and be kind.

[whitewing09]

Hi![/size]

It’s been cool to see some discussion - and some interesting perspectives on the show. Not sure if it’s based on video or actual performances. Either way … normally I don’t post much, but since there’s a bit of chatter I want to offer this perspective.

 

Tremendous Sea of Love … a show about hope. It is not connected to DJT. It connects to a Passion Pit album Darryl and I like.

 

A show that honors Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and Senator Bobby Kennedy on the 50th anniversary of their death, while also paying homage to the strength and beauty of our nation, and the bright hope that students inspire for the future.

Those who know us … a show about a rabbit … a show about dancing … a show about a lizard .. a show about a forrest … while there are some deep meanings … sometimes it’s face value.

 

The beginning of the show starts on calm waters …

The three ships encounter terrible storms. The storms are a metaphor for the shooting of Dr. Martin Luther King - you’ll hear riot sound effects that parallel the anger the country felt, like thunder and storms on the sea. Bobby Kennedy’s words the night of MLK’s death remind us that “we have faced difficult times as a country … we will face difficult times again” The ships come through the storms and out into open waters.

The ballad .. the water is wide .. represents the division the country faced and has faced … and how through MLK’s vision for love … we could unite America. You’ll see the two sides of the field come together and unite.

 

The closer … celebrating love as American’s. Reagan reminds through his words about the strength and resolve of the American People, who can achieve anything. This parallels King and Kennedy. In an effort to NOT be political and appeal to all sides, President Reagan’s quotations focus mainly on all americans having the ability to love one another, love their country … and achieve anything we set our minds to do.

The three ships - at the end - discover America.

 

We can make it through any storms. Including this message thread :-)

 

Enjoy sailing the Tremendous Sea of Love with us …

 

Thanks,

Jarrett

 

Thank you for sharing your insight and the design team’s vision, Jarrett (I’ve been a huge fan of CTJ since Bloom; it’s cool to even just talk to you indirectly).

 

Wow....I recently saw this show when they were in San Marcos and played our local football team. I did not get the Trump vibe at all. Google Passion Pit's Tremendous Sea of Love and read what it was about. Google MLK quotes. Google Bobby Kennedy quotes. What I took away from the show was that it shows our nation's history. If you think it has anything to do with Trump, you are reaching way to far.

Funny, Passion Pit also got criticized for using the same title.

See the show, listen, and enjoy before you start rumors about a fantastic band.

 

I discussed my perspective with several people who have been involved in the marching arts in various capacities for several years. That’s to say that I wasn’t alone in my assessment, but I will claim everything that I wrote as my opinions. Overall, the fact that we had very different takes on the same show highlights the importance of crafting a tight message. Personally, I’m trained in literary criticism among other things, so my first instinct is to ask what are quotes relationally to the musical elements and temporally in the show. Then, what’s the significance of the quotes used and the original source.

 

Once you remove the soapbox from your backside - I hope your can find enough friends for the "Pluck and Chuck" for the splinters that remain.

 

let the rest of us just enjoy the program for what it is, and stay away from the psychoanalysis of what it "could" mean and the addition of politics on a program that has built a reputation on excellence over the past decade.

 

enough said

How about we remove the vitriol and focus on discourse of ideas You don’t need to agree with me, in fact, I actively encourage people to disagree with me (because we learn through discourse), but please refrain from sophomoric comments.

[SuGarCaneDDygotaswttooth]

IT’s all about LOVE baby!!!

[whitewing09]

IT’s all about LOVE baby!!!

I’m flooded with emotions.

[justabandkid94]

To be honest, I skimmed most of this thread. But the first thing that came to mind reading this was stories that PCEP 2000 stirred in its day (as my older brother has recounted to me). love to see a show ratchet up conversation like this

[CTJBandPops]

To be honest, I skimmed most of this thread. But the first thing that came to mind reading this was stories that PCEP 2000 stirred in its day. love to see a show ratchet up conversation like this

there is no such thing as bad press - I am sure everyone that watched the show for the first time on Saturday - either in person or on FloMarching looked for their own interpretation of the show -both in prelims and finals and that is always a great thing. - as you stated - conversation is a good thing.

 

I will again state, that I do not represent the organization, and apologize for my fervor in protecting a program that I believe in and some of the comments made where out of line - not my intent and I will leave it at that

 

I look forward to the ongoing discussions around Texas Bands and hope you all enjoy the season 

[meursault]

Hi!

It’s been cool to see some discussion - and some interesting perspectives on the show. Not sure if it’s based on video or actual performances. Either way … normally I don’t post much, but since there’s a bit of chatter I want to offer this perspective.

 

Tremendous Sea of Love … a show about hope. It is not connected to DJT. It connects to a Passion Pit album Darryl and I like.

 

A show that honors Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and Senator Bobby Kennedy on the 50th anniversary of their death, while also paying homage to the strength and beauty of our nation, and the bright hope that students inspire for the future.

Those who know us … a show about a rabbit … a show about dancing … a show about a lizard .. a show about a forrest … while there are some deep meanings … sometimes it’s face value.

 

The beginning of the show starts on calm waters …

The three ships encounter terrible storms. The storms are a metaphor for the shooting of Dr. Martin Luther King - you’ll hear riot sound effects that parallel the anger the country felt, like thunder and storms on the sea. Bobby Kennedy’s words the night of MLK’s death remind us that “we have faced difficult times as a country … we will face difficult times again” The ships come through the storms and out into open waters.

The ballad .. the water is wide .. represents the division the country faced and has faced … and how through MLK’s vision for love … we could unite America. You’ll see the two sides of the field come together and unite.

 

The closer … celebrating love as American’s. Reagan reminds through his words about the strength and resolve of the American People, who can achieve anything. This parallels King and Kennedy. In an effort to NOT be political and appeal to all sides, President Reagan’s quotations focus mainly on all americans having the ability to love one another, love their country … and achieve anything we set our minds to do.

The three ships - at the end - discover America. 

 

We can make it through any storms. Including this message thread :-)

 

Enjoy sailing the Tremendous Sea of Love with us …

 

Thanks,

Jarrett

just found this thread and i think it's funny that you can tell Lippman worked at the cadets because of the constant "..."

 

CLASSIC hopkins technique

[Rubisco]

Just dropping by to say that this was my favorite thread of the marching season. But I love conflict, so there's that...

 

As far as CTJ's show design is concerned, it strikes me as classic CTJ. Lots of disparate elements that seem like they shouldn't work, but somehow do. Is it a nautical-themed show? Is it a patriotic show? Well, I guess it's both. Is it a Donald Trump show? Lol. Honestly, I would have never thought that. I am, however, familiar with the Passion Pit album, and that was my first guess.

[Koop]

Unrelated to the topic, but I have a CTJ question. Who pays for CTJ to have a new BOA uniform every year? That has to be quite expensive to change unis every single season like they appear to have done the past two! It’s like DCI, and we all know how expensive DCI is!

 

I’m feeling old and crotchety this morning but I’m starting to miss old school band uniforms, especially in DCI. I can see the band world changing so much and at a very fast pace here recently. I love all the glitz and glamour as much as the next girl, but when is it just too much for a high school?

I heard their uniforms have interchangeable pieces and that the pieces aren't all that expensive, so they buy new ones each year, but not 100 percent sure how accurate that is.

[CTJBandPops]

I heard their uniforms have interchangeable pieces and that the pieces aren't all that expensive, so they buy new ones each year, but not 100 percent sure how accurate that is.

correct

[Majellan]

My apologies to my Republican cohorts, but I've never thought Tremendous sea of love mends well with Trump, not sure how this idea ever came up.  Most of the speeches are from MLK sprinkled with Bobby Kennedy, Reagan thrown in for a little balance.  That was my thought and the thoughts of everyone who watched the SA Boa stream here in Frisco.  If anything I was surprised there hadn't been push back from local conservatives on the show.

 

So thank you, Jarrett Lipman for taking the time to explain the true intent of the program.