Relevance of BOA Grand Nationals

[18Saxes]

One thing I notice people miss everytime this topic is discussed is the number of strong bands at San Antonio Vs. the Grand Nats number.

 

At Grand Nationals, there are less bands that are super strong, but their are a couple bands that are consistently the best in the nation. I mean this as in that while there are less of the top tier bands at grand nationals, the bands that are on top at nationals are very, very strong. 

 

Looking at San Antonio, while it has many more bands that are of a higher tier, only about 1-3 of them are as strong as the top bands at grand nationals every year. 

 

Point being, the idea that because a band does not make finals at San Antonio but does at Grand Nationals can only be applied if you are comparing the bottom areas of finals. 

[LostChoirGuy]

I think that really just depends on the year and the band as to which is deeper at the top of finals as well. Certainly, you can't deny that with Avon and Carmel there every year and bands like Broken Arrow and Tarpon going regularly as well as some of the Texas bands, there are always several top quality bands at GNats, but I think there have been multiple instances of bands placing in the top half at GNats finals that didn't place in the top half of San Antonio finals. It must be taken into account that bands often design their shows to peak at their final competition, so that can have an effect. This doesn't really disprove anything and I wouldn't argue that the opposite is true (that San Antonio is stronger at the top) but I think it just goes to show that both San Antonio and Indianapolis GNats are comparably strong all throughout the whole competition.

[Majellan]

I don't agree with the statement that Texas bands are weaker at the top than Grand Nationals.  While Avon and Carmel are undoubtedly great marching bands, they have an inherit advantage in that they live 15 minutes away from the stadium in Indy and are there every year.  That helps tremendously with nerves, fan support, exhaustion level, just can't be overstated.  If the nationals were held in San Antonio every year, who would have the most national titles?  Westfield  or Spring (80'S-2000's), LD Bell, Marcus?  We know Broken Arrow would be in there still as well as Tarpon Springs, Avon, and Carmel at times, but would they win and would they be in the top five every year?....I don't think so.  The top 10 would be a lot thicker.  I'm going to go ahead and say it,CTJ or Hebron would've have won it last year if the finals in San Antonio scenario were true.  Lets remember that Avon came in fourth in Texas, perhaps because of travel but Round Rock came in 18th at San Antonio, 12th at GN finals.  Even with the travel and inconsistent attendance, Texas has 4 grand nationals under it's belt and a lot of close top 3 finishes.  I think any of the top 10 finalists and possibly top 20 finalists at San Antonio would make finals at Grand Nats any year.  I live in Frisco and Centennial doesn't go to BOA so I don't have a dog in this fight except watching Texas bands for the past 35 years since I was old enough to hold an instrument.  All that being said I would say there are 6 or 7 Texas bands every year that could go toe to toe with the GN winner, so San Antonio is just as heavy at the top as Grand Nats. 

[vbassoon]

BOA SA reigns supreme.

[18Saxes]

I don't agree with the statement that Texas bands are weaker at the top than Grand Nationals.  While Avon and Carmel are undoubtedly great marching bands, they have an inherit advantage in that they live 15 minutes away from the stadium in Indy and are there every year.  That helps tremendously with nerves, fan support, exhaustion level, just can't be overstated.  If the nationals were held in San Antonio every year, who would have the most national titles?  Westfield  or Spring (80'S-2000's), LD Bell, Marcus?  We know Broken Arrow would be in there still as well as Tarpon Springs, Avon, and Carmel at times, but would they win and would they be in the top five every year?....I don't think so.  The top 10 would be a lot thicker.  I'm going to go ahead and say it,CTJ or Hebron would've have won it last year if the finals in San Antonio scenario were true.  Lets remember that Avon came in fourth in Texas, perhaps because of travel but Round Rock came in 18th at San Antonio, 12th at GN finals.  Even with the travel and inconsistent attendance, Texas has 4 grand nationals under it's belt and a lot of close top 3 finishes.  I think any of the top 10 finalists and possibly top 20 finalists at San Antonio would make finals at Grand Nats any year.  I live in Frisco and Centennial doesn't go to BOA so I don't have a dog in this fight except watching Texas bands for the past 35 years since I was old enough to hold an instrument.  All that being said I would say there are 6 or 7 Texas bands every year that could go toe to toe with the GN winner, so San Antonio is just as heavy at the top as Grand Nats. 

Considering the 6th place at San Antonio, (4th texas band), placed 4 spots lower than the GN winner this year, I wouldn't consider that toe to toe competition. 

[Majellan]

Well, I was referring to a hypothetical national finals competition in San Antonio.  Marcus was, at best, the fourth best band in Texas this year and they, as you state, ranked number four at nationals.  Had Hebron and CTJ or even Vandegrift gone to Indy this year all bets are off the table on who would've won.

 

Marcus was 1.8 percentage points behind Carmel at Nationals, and 2.1 points behind CTJ at San Antonio.  Now Marcus did perform better at Nationals but by how much.  CTJ, Hebron and Carmel would've been neck and neck, after seeing Carmel's show I can't see them beating either Hebron or CTJ unless either one had a bad performance....which is always possible.  Keep in mind that Hebron won the Dallas regional at Southlake as well, so they consistently rated better than the other two Lewisville ISD schools the entire marching season, Hebron even beat Marcus at the Duncanville Marching invitational immediately prior to San Antonio.

 

Btw, I wouldn't call having 3 of the top 6 bands at nationals not being toe to toe with the top bands.  Especially considering the Woodlands didn't even get on the field until mid September because of Harvey.

 

Edit:  Oh, I just realized you were from Carmel 18 Saxes.  This is no bashing of Carmel, I would love to see Carmel come to San Antonio as a matter of fact because you guys have such a great history and have won at San Antonio once(albeit by .25 points over LD Bell the year before Spring Westfield won nationals in 2003).  As a Texan, I naturally like to go on about my state.  That caveat aside, I still stand by my prognosis.  Texas is a tough place to compete in marching band, most years our bands have to hurry up to indy at the last minute after having gone to our state competition.  Prosper did that this past fall, drove straight from the state contest to Indianapolis, 800 miles.  There is no doubt an edge for the local bands.

[Gogogo]

I agree but how was Marcus the 4th best TX band? They finished behind Flower Mound, Reagan, Vandy, Hebron and Johnson at SA.. that would be 6th .. but I LOVED their show!

[18Saxes]

Well, I was referring to a hypothetical national finals competition in San Antonio.  Marcus was, at best, the fourth best band in Texas this year and they, as you state, ranked number four at nationals.  Had Hebron and CTJ or even Vandegrift gone to Indy this year all bets are off the table on who would've won.

 

Marcus was 1.8 percentage points behind Carmel at Nationals, and 2.1 points behind CTJ at San Antonio.  Now Marcus did perform better at Nationals but by how much.  CTJ, Hebron and Carmel would've been neck and neck, after seeing Carmel's show I can't see them beating either Hebron or CTJ unless either one had a bad performance....which is always possible.  Keep in mind that Hebron won the Dallas regional at Southlake as well, so they consistently rated better than the other two Lewisville ISD schools the entire marching season, Hebron even beat Marcus at the Duncanville Marching invitational immediately prior to San Antonio.

 

Btw, I wouldn't call having 3 of the top 6 bands at nationals not being toe to toe with the top bands.  Especially considering the Woodlands didn't even get on the field until mid September because of Harvey.

 

Edit:  Oh, I just realized you were from Carmel 18 Saxes.  This is no bashing of Carmel, I would love to see Carmel come to San Antonio as a matter of fact because you guys have such a great history and have won at San Antonio once(albeit by .25 points over LD Bell the year before Spring Westfield won nationals in 2003).  As a Texan, I naturally like to go on about my state.  That caveat aside, I still stand by my prognosis.  Texas is a tough place to compete in marching band, most years our bands have to hurry up to indy at the last minute after having gone to our state competition.  Prosper did that this past fall, drove straight from the state contest to Indianapolis, 800 miles.  There is no doubt an edge for the local bands.

Not from Carmel, I know people from there. I agree SA has their obvious strengths and GN has their obvious strengths, from some perspectives one could be seen as more competitive. I would love to see a year where we got to see Carmel, Avon, and Broken Arrow go up against all the top texas bands. No hard feelings, just a good debate

[Majellan]

Absolutely, that would be a great competition.  I actually thought we were sending the top bands this year, Flower Mound was outstanding but they never quite got in sync with their show.  I acknowledge that Marcus is outstanding, but I have not seen many shows by them that I love, could be the incredible amount of props.  And yes to the person that said 4th in Texas was high for Marcus last year, that's probably true this year.  Ronald Reagan could've slipped in front of them this year, The Woodlands sanse hurricane, so maybe 6th best in the state....we'll see next year at UIL:)

[herbaflerb]

We may not see much Texas representation at the St. Louis Super Regional because Area Saturday is the same weekend this coming year.  Atlanta was cut because of the expensive of renting the stadium along with not being able to fill two days worth of Prelims.  The addition of the Florida regional will help give those programs who would have gone to Atlanta another option.  

 

I would not be shocked if San Antonio hit 80 programs in 2018.  There were 68 programs last year so you'd just have to add one more block to hit 80.  If Tarpon ever comes down, and that's a long shot, the opportunity is much more likely since Atlanta is scrapped.  And yes, they would have to come down on a non-Grand Nationals year.  If they do so in 2019, I'll cry happy tears.    

 

Rereading this thread and wanted to point out that the schools previously served by Atlanta will most likely be attending BOA Powder Springs, about 30 minutes from downtown Atlanta.

[LeanderMomma]

Rereading this thread and wanted to point out that the schools previously served by Atlanta will most likely be attending BOA Powder Springs, about 30 minutes from downtown Atlanta.

 

Do you think Cedar Ridge will go back there soon?

[Guest]

 

Do you think Cedar Ridge will go back there soon?

I hope. There was recent talk about them being on a downward trend but after this year I HIGHLY disagree.

[LeanderMomma]

I hope. There was recent talk about them being on a downward trend but after this year I HIGHLY disagree.

I disagree as well. People say that every season a band slips a little. It doesn't automatically mean a band is in a slump!

[Guest]

 

I disagree as well. People say that every season a band slips a little. It doesn't automatically mean a band is in a slump!

I think they are actually cleaner and perform better now, they are just compared to their GE powerhouse shows they had under the old direction.

[Crown2018]

So any confirmed TX bands going?

[JeremiahW]

So any confirmed TX bands going?

 

It has been confirmed that no Texas bands are going.

[Dog885]

It has been confirmed that no Texas bands are going.

Darn, that's unfortunate. I guess everybody wants to do state, and San Antonio will have up to 80 bands anyways.

[Jackson1]

That is a bummer. I get the 6A bands not going on a state year but there are so many awesome 5A bands out there in Texas. When was the last time no Texas band attended GN? Can’t be often. I have a feeling we may go fro famine to feast in 2019 at GN with regards to Texas bands. One can hope anyway. I think SA may be incredible again this year.....

[Bandwoww]

GN 2019 will be insane. With Hebron, Keller, The Woodlands, and Round Rock all scheduled to return and CTJ, Reagan, and Leander possibly returning...along with possible first appearances from Vandegrift and Hendrickson among others.

[LeanderMomma]

That is a bummer. I get the 6A bands not going on a state year but there are so many awesome 5A bands out there in Texas. When was the last time no Texas band attended GN? Can’t be often. I have a feeling we may go fro famine to feast in 2019 at GN with regards to Texas bands. One can hope anyway. I think SA may be incredible again this year.....

 

I did some research a few months ago and posted this info but can't remember the exact year.  It was like 2000 or 2001.  I can't remember which thread I posted it in!  

 

EDIT:  I found it in another Grand Nats thread begun last November.  It was 2000 the last time no Texas bands were in attendance at Grand Nats.  

[Jelonfish]

GN 2019 will be insane. With Hebron, Keller, The Woodlands, and Round Rock all scheduled to return and CTJ, Reagan, and Leander possibly returning...along with possible first appearances from Vandegrift and Hendrickson among others.

Also heard haltom may attend . And they are getting new uniforms as well

[LeanderMomma]

It'd be awesome if it was Avon, Carmel, Broken Arrow, Tarpon Springs and 8 Texas bands in Finals.

[herbaflerb]

Do you think Cedar Ridge will go back there soon?

 

I don't think so. Not while I'm here, at least. But I've been surprised every year so we'll see.

[herbaflerb]

Darn, that's unfortunate. I guess everybody wants to do state, and San Antonio will have up to 80 bands anyways.

 

I think State means a whole lot more to Texas bands than venturing out of the state.

[Jeffrey L. Gorman]

I think State means a whole lot more to Texas bands than venturing out of the state.

UIL 6A Championshps will be a big event this coming fall. If you read the Yellow Board, the costs Bands are charging for Travel and other items, is being met with complaints by Parents, some of whom are Band Directors who feel that Costs are to high. Doing UIL even if you have to travel some distance, is still cheaper than going out of state. Big thing also is that since UIL is a school event, the Bands absence from School does not count against daily attendance figures and does not hurt funds coming for student attendance.   BOA is not a school function and being gone for 4 or 5 days counts against average daily attendance.