Woodwinds in DCI?

[treblemaker]

Because I like opening up old wounds I thought I would go there and straight up ask...

 

Should woodwinds be allowed to march DCI? Why or Why not? Justify your cause that's all I ask. :]

[ftwdrummer]

Not. The sound of drum corps is too unique to spoil it with woodwinds...much as I love woodwinds (as lhsfluter exemplifies, they're always the most attractive ), I can get my fill of marching woodwinds in school marching band (thank the fates for BOA!)...the drum corps sound is too hard to find anywhere else, and too unique, to lose it for the ages with woodwinds.

[bluebellbrass07]

Its called drum and bugle corps for a reason. Most corps originated from drums, guard, and 1 or 2 valve bugles. Granted the origin of these groups comes from military drum and fife corps...

 

Adding in woodwinds also isn't going to have a significant impact on the sound unless you greatly increase the member limit. If you split the Brass in half and add woodwinds, the brass is going to overpower the woodwinds anyways, and its just going to decrease the overall volume.

 

The only case I could see for a woodwind to have a useful application in drum corps is as a soloist, and frankly I'd prefer for that never to happen.

[radchad]

Not.

 

Like it was previously said, DCI comes from Percussion, Guard, and BRASS roots.

I think adding in woodwinds would be completely changing the foundation of a magnificant program.

 

If you add in woodwinds, you would have to up the member limit or cut the brass in half. That would have an effect on overall volume, and sound. The brass would overpower the woodwinds anyway. If anything is more memorbable of a Drum Corp, its the huge impact volume of that first hit.

 

I know it is unfair for woodwind player, but I honestly have met only a select few of woodwind players who would ever seriously consider marching drum corp, anyway.

 

If you want to do it that badly, pick up a brass instrument and get to learning.

[treblemaker]

Shouldn't we get the equal opportunity to experience what DCI has to offer without having to learn a totally different instrument putting us behind the curve with most others playing their instruments for 5 years or more?

 

as for ftwdrummer.. thanks? I think. haha.

[Danpod]

Shouldn't we get the equal opportunity to experience what DCI has to offer without having to learn a totally different instrument putting us behind the curve with most others playing their instruments for 5 years or more?

 

The amount of woodwind players that have competed in drum corps are a lot higher than what people might think. Corps don't just look at raw talent as the only factor in choosing the 150 to put on the uniform. It has a lot to do with attitude. Some of the best players are sometimes cut because of their inflated ego or negative attitude. In turn, a motivated woodwind player who does not have much experience on a brass instrument can take that very spot based on their work ethic and attitude. Does it happen all the time? Perhaps not, but it is not impossible.

 

Drum Corps is a unique musical activity. It really wouldn't be Drum Corps anymore with woodwinds, just like a woodwind ensemble wouldn't be called as such if you added a bunch of brass instruments. Adding woodwinds would change the entire visual complexion of the activity. Since the brass instruments have to be carried in more or less the same way, it makes for visually uniform and appealing forms, both in motion and at rest.

 

Here's my point: When DCI promotes their movie theater events, both The Countdown and DCI Quarterfinals, they show a little highlight video to get people to come to the theater. The last image you see on that video is a baritone player from the 1993 Star of Indiana slamming his horn down at the end of his show. Although you cannot hear what he is saying, you can see him scream out after the horns down. It's probably the most badass thing I've ever seen. Now, imagine if he had a clarinet in his hands. It wouldn't have the same affect.

[bluebellbrass07]

Shouldn't we get the equal opportunity to experience what DCI has to offer without having to learn a totally different instrument putting us behind the curve with most others playing their instruments for 5 years or more?

 

as for ftwdrummer.. thanks? I think. haha.

 

I would venture to guess that almost every Division 1 drum corps has at least 1 woodwind player in the hornline. I marched with a saxophone and clarinet player last year. And remember you CHOSE to play a woodwind instrument! You can't complain and say its not fair that you dont get to march drum corps

 

Honestly, learning a brass instrument well enough to march a D1 corps is not as big of a commitment as you would think. If you were to start now, playing 30 minutes to an hour a day on a brass instrument would more than likely be enough to get you into a lower tier finalist corps.

 

 

And if you don't want to learn another instrument, theres always colorguard

[bluebellbrass07]

Here's my point: When DCI promotes their movie theater events, both The Countdown and DCI Quarterfinals, they show a little highlight video to get people to come to the theater. The last image you see on that video is a baritone player from the 1993 Star of Indiana slamming his horn down at the end of his show. Although you cannot hear what he is saying, you can see him scream out after the horns down. It's probably the most badass thing I've ever seen. Now, imagine if he had a clarinet in his hands. It wouldn't have the same affect.

 

That too

[treblemaker]

The amount of woodwind players that have competed in drum corps are a lot higher than what people might think. Corps don't just look at raw talent as the only factor in choosing the 150 to put on the uniform. It has a lot to do with attitude. Some of the best players are sometimes cut because of their inflated ego or negative attitude. In turn, a motivated woodwind player who does not have much experience on a brass instrument can take that very spot based on their work ethic and attitude. Does it happen all the time? Perhaps not, but it is not impossible.

 

Drum Corps is a unique musical activity. It really wouldn't be Drum Corps anymore with woodwinds, just like a woodwind ensemble wouldn't be called as such if you added a bunch of brass instruments. Adding woodwinds would change the entire visual complexion of the activity. Since the brass instruments have to be carried in more or less the same way, it makes for visually uniform and appealing forms, both in motion and at rest.

 

Here's my point: When DCI promotes their movie theater events, both The Countdown and DCI Quarterfinals, they show a little highlight video to get people to come to the theater. The last image you see on that video is a baritone player from the 1993 Star of Indiana slamming his horn down at the end of his show. Although you cannot hear what he is saying, you can see him scream out after the horns down. It's probably the most badass thing I've ever seen. Now, imagine if he had a clarinet in his hands. It wouldn't have the same affect.

 

 

In a woodwind quintet there is usually a flute, an oboe, a bassoon, a clarinet and a horn. Kind of odd don't you think considering it's a woodwind ensemble.

 

As for the visual aspect, yes it would change but is that the end of the world?

 

I find it funny that you used the clarinet as an example for the horns down effect and your right. It's the least dramatic of all instuments. But what about insturments that go from vertical to horizontal and vice versa. Those are pretty dramatic horns down. Maybe not the effect of what a brass instrument does for you but you have to admit it gets the job done. :]

[TRUMPet]

Its not so much the movement of the horn in the snap its more the size of the horn (particulary the ammount of shinny metal) in the snap. I think that the three things that make drum corp are:

1) friggin loud chords

2) large ammount of shinny instruments that can keep any kid with add entertained

3) and general uniformity of all the members on the field

 

woodwinds are really only good for the ballads, and Seriously who goes to a dci event in anticipation of the ballad and slow sections

[TX Suh-nare]

I have been a DCI fan for a very long time (and the only reason I'm not up in all days right now is because I still have to finish school up and graduate). What I love about the whole activity is how a group of people can explode a musical idea into euphoria and raw power.

 

Woodwinds are (lets face it), naturally softer instruments than brass and percussion instruments. In order to create the same volume (or even close to a SIMILAR volume) as 66-72 horns and at least thirty drums and mallet instruments, it would require anywhere from (my guess) 80-100 woodwind players on the field. 80-100 woodwinds means you have to buy instruments for them ($$$$), buy replacement reeds for most of the instruments ($$$$), You'd have to either cram the horn players, drummers and guard chicks together on the same number of buses (health hazard in case of wrecks, and fired up drum corps kids spending too much time together, aka $$$$) or you'd have to buy at least one, more likely two extra buses ($$$$). Extra Buses means extra gas for all the buses ($$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$). You will have to hire a Woodwind Caption Head and WW techs ($$$$). More kids and staff will need to be fed, so the food volunteers will need to buy more food and spend more time preparing it ($$$$). Arrangers for the show, both music and drill, will probably demand more for the increased workload ($$$$), and housing sites will be limited due to the fact that so many people cannot fit into certain high school gyms, which means larger complexes will need to be rented ($$$$).

 

I know that all of these woodwind players (or at least some) will have to pay tour fees as well, but anyone who's done drum corps knows that tour fees don't come close to paying off everything. That's why they make sponsorship deals, do parades, perform standstills in random places, sell merchandise, and all of these other side projects. It's tough for corps to make ends meet, which is why you have seen such a drastic reduction in the number of corps that operate today (As many as 117 corps performed at an American Legion Championship in the 1910s. Today...49 (22 in World Class, and 27 in Open Class) with one on a reduced schedule and another that can't afford to field a corps).

 

Every drum corps is a non-profit organization, which means they have to spend every single penny they take in, or else they'll be considered a profit organization and taxed. Corps can't hold money away in accounts or the government will tax everything, which will cripple almost all of them since taxes on the amount of money that comes into these corps is astronomical. No corps can set aside money for tough years, so they go off of sponsorships and donations annually. By adding this extra burden onto them, many more corps could fold, leaving only about 20 or so drum corps altogether, and with the increased amount of talent out there, DCI will have to continue to raise the limit on corps size, etc.

 

There you go.

[TRUMPet]

Well said

[bluebellbrass07]

In a woodwind quintet there is usually a flute, an oboe, a bassoon, a clarinet and a horn. Kind of odd don't you think considering it's a woodwind ensemble.

 

As for the visual aspect, yes it would change but is that the end of the world?

 

I find it funny that you used the clarinet as an example for the horns down effect and your right. It's the least dramatic of all instuments. But what about insturments that go from vertical to horizontal and vice versa. Those are pretty dramatic horns down. Maybe not the effect of what a brass instrument does for you but you have to admit it gets the job done. :]

 

Not odd at all. The horn as always been a part of the instrumentation for a woodwinds quintet. It blends well with the rest of the ensemble and kind of ties the sound together.

 

And yes, it would. Drum corps have always had a very distinct look. The upper body presence of a brass player is just not there with woodwind instruments, MAYBE with the exception of flutes.

 

I understand you being a woodwind player and wanting to do drum corps, but honestly if you want to do it so badly just learn a brass instrument. And again, woodwinds are not going to add a significant difference to the sound of a corps unless a large number are added. Thats going to have another increase in member limit, and another bus. (have you seen diesel prices lately? around 5 bucks a gallon in some places) Thats also going to have add limits to drill design and other things.

 

And this is probably the biggest reason why this would never work. As far as clarinets go, there's no way a wooden clarinet is going to make it through summer without cracking, chipping, breaking, etc. And plastic clarinets just plain sound like crap. Not to mention having to put up with chipped reeds over summer and whatnot.

 

 

Its not that I don't like woodwinds, they just don't belong in DCI

[treyj]

Because I like opening up old wounds I thought I would go there and straight up ask...

 

Should woodwinds be allowed to march DCI? Why or Why not? Justify your cause that's all I ask. :]

 

I don't know if they should be allowed. Because DCI is a hard sound and harsh and could be hurt by woodwinds. But I do wish they were allowed. I play saxophone and would love the chance to march something like DCI but it won't ever happen :[

[whitewing09]

Convert to the dark side.

[TRUMPet]

I play saxophone and would love the chance to march something like DCI but it won't ever happen :[

 

Learn a brass instrument its not too hard to do.

[TRUMPet]

btw, i think its already been said but it can be said again... woodwinds are just too quiet

[treblemaker]

Learn a brass instrument its not too hard to do.

 

Sure it's not that hard when you have no instrument basis. But here's the thing... I've played the flute going on 7 years now and in case you didn't know the mouth position is completely different. Not only that the lip movements are exactly opposites. I'm am learning to play the mellophone and it's been a struggle because of that. I want to act like I'm playing my flute not a mellophone. It just makes it that much harder to get. Add in that it will most likely effect my flute playing in a negative way and with this year being my senior year I kind of want to do good on my all state audition. This is one thing I think brass players take advantage of when they try out for DCI. You already have the upper hand on the playing ability and experience but I would say that a woodwind player will have a little more heart when they pick up their own knowing what they accomplished.

 

Also, your comment about woodwinds being softer than brass was kind of not necessary because that's pointing out the obvious.

[whitewing09]

amen sista

[takigan]

Sure, it takes time to learn, which is time you could be doing other things....but it's all about how much you want it. Saxophones have it easy, because if they learn Baritone or Euphonium they don't have to learn to read Bass Clef since the key of their instrument is the same note association line-to-line as Bass Clef is in concert pitch (which is what Baritones and Euphoniums read). They just have to think in transposed notes (at least I think that's how it works.....I hate transposition, it's confusing ).

 

But if you're concerned about making state, that's only something you work on 5 months out of the year anyway. Skimp out on Solo and Ensemble in the Spring (or just do an easy solo if your school requires it), take the time to learn your new axe, hack through it all summer, take some lessons on that instrument if need be....then come camp time in the Fall you should be in good shape to either do a non-finalist corps or do a local corps. March that instrument in your HS or college band just to keep yourself sharp....and don't worry about it "detracting" from your primary instrument....think about all those drum majors or those Double reeds who do pit and Drumline. And the colorguard...they don't even get to play on their instruments during band. It doesn't detract from anything....these people just have to work harder to do everything they want to do. Plus it's not like you have to become as good as the brass players in your hand. You only need to know your way around the instrument and play it well enough to where someone will actually want to hear it.....there's plenty of crappy corps out there that are just looking for people to fill a spot on the field. And if you have really strong marching fundamentals, you don't have to have as strong of playing skills.

 

You should have done Baritone instead of Mello. Most Baritone spots are taken by Trombone players who play Baritone as a second instrument. And the story with the Euphoniums--which is even more common with Midwestern Euphonium players than with Texas ones-- is that most "true" Euphonium players didn't start on Euphonium to begin with. Not to mention you're competing against all the other woodwind players who picked up Baritone so they could do corps.....so yeah, most of the people in your section are pretty much going to be in the same boat. Plus Baritone is easier to play......the bore type makes the overtone series thicker and it's easier to hit the note and play it in tune than it is on the Mello. The mouthpiece fits the face more naturally and it doesn't take as much air (there's less resistance pushing back at you from the instrument).

 

And who says you have to learn a brass instrument? Why not do colorguard? It's just like learning an instrument. Spend a year in Guard and do Winterguard in the Spring if you have one.

[radchad]

If you decided to play horn(which, if you're a flute players is what I think the best for fluts to switch to if they decide to), you have the reading of music down. Because horn has a smaller mouthpiece, it would be easier for you to play on rather than a tuba. Also, if I am not mistaken, it takes a lot of air to play the flute really well, and with 7 years training, I bet you have some powerful playing lungs.

 

You have all the right equipment, you just need to read the manual.

[TRUMPet]

've played the flute going on 7 years now and in case you didn't know the mouth position is completely different. Not only that the lip movements are exactly opposites. I'm am learning to play the mellophone and it's been a struggle because of that. I want to act like I'm playing my flute not a mellophone

 

I played clarinet first.... its actually easier if your in the same key, no offense but mouth position is really a lame excuse not to learn a brass instrument.

[treblemaker]

You should have done Baritone instead of Mello. Most Baritone spots are taken by Trombone players who play Baritone as a second instrument. And the story with the Euphoniums--which is even more common with Midwestern Euphonium players than with Texas ones-- is that most "true" Euphonium players didn't start on Euphonium to begin with. Not to mention you're competing against all the other woodwind players who picked up Baritone so they could do corps.....so yeah, most of the people in your section are pretty much going to be in the same boat. Plus Baritone is easier to play......the bore type makes the overtone series thicker and it's easier to hit the note and play it in tune than it is on the Mello. The mouthpiece fits the face more naturally and it doesn't take as much air (there's less resistance pushing back at you from the instrument).

 

I chose the mello because I have thin lips and could not buzz on any other of the mouth pieces plus one of my band directors plays the french horn so I have that advantage in learning.

 

And who says you have to learn a brass instrument? Why not do colorguard? It's just like learning an instrument. Spend a year in Guard and do Winterguard in the Spring if you have one.

 

Why would I do colorguard if I love to play music? Plus my school does not exactly have a great colorguard base. But I see your point.

 

Also, if I am not mistaken, it takes a lot of air to play the flute really well, and with 7 years training, I bet you have some powerful playing lungs.

 

You are right. It takes as much air to play a flute as it does to play the tuba. :]

[treblemaker]

I played clarinet first.... its actually easier if your in the same key, no offense but mouth position is really a lame excuse not to learn a brass instrument.

 

 

But I am learning to play one.... You just said it's easy and I was telling you how it's different when going from FLUTE(not clarinet) to a brass instrument. The flute is played differently then any other instrument, it's not your typical woodwind instrument.

Edited July 30, 2008 by lhsfluter

[whitewing09]

But I am learning to play one.... You just said it's easy and I was telling you how it's different when going from FLUTE(not clarinet) to a brass instrument. The flute is played differently then any other instrument, it's not your typical woodwind instrument.

 

True that

 

 

Besides you can't compare something you bite on to play versus a flute... they just aren't the same. I can see where playing a flute would mess you up when trying to play a brass, because of the difference in mouth movements between the two.