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2007 UIL State 4A Finals Results


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silentwatch, do you have a recommendation on how to judge better?

I believe that's what all the questions were about! LOL If I had some answers to them, I might. LOL

But it's not just band competitions this covers, it goes into everything that ever gets judged, KWIM? Comes down to the original question. Is there really any honest-to-goodness "fair" way to judge? Probably not, therefore maybe we should all give the poor judges a break!! :)

Can you imagine if the band directors were allowed "instant replay" opportunities like in football? LOL "But Judge, I beg to differ, I'm certain if you check the tape you'll see those lines from our rival band were off horribly!" LOL ::groan!::

I was fascinated with the prelims results. Some of the schools almost look like they got gypped by this composite method, but because I don't have an inside view of the system, I can't tell you how it could be made better. If changes were made, someone else would still be complaining anyway, right? ;)

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After watching the competition from beginning to end what struck me about the prelim and finals scoring was how outdated the UIL scoring system seems to be with the "recent" trend in marching bands in high school. Many of the top bands are marching what I consider "BOA" style shows i.e. more visually elaborate, technically more difficult shows as opposed to what I call "UIL" style shows which I think stresses the basics more. An earlier post mentioned they thought the Connally show was average and I agree. I've seen their show before yesterday and thought the same thing. It was a technically easy show to march and their sound, while crisp, wasn't big like Poteet, Friendswood, or Hendrickson. I don't mean to knock Connally because I thought they did their show very well and deserved at least a top five. They are just a good example of my theory on the differences in UIL marching as compared to most of the competitions arount the state which include scoring for visual presentation and general effect (BOA standards IMHO). I think UIL scoring is outdated and in a way creates technically sound but ultimately forgetable shows. There were only a few shows I saw yesterday that I felt had wow moments in them. But then why attempt a challenging show in a state year when marching a safer show will be judged higher. I know some of this may come off as harsh and I apologize for that. Just trying to offer another possibility for the disparity in judges scores. Some stick to the UIL scoring matrix while some may (subconsciously) consider the impact of "the show". BTW congrats to Poteet who I had #1 on my scoring sheet whichever way you looked at it....

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Sorry, but I am not in agreement with the finals placements.

 

Hendrickson, you guys completely pulled it out of the hat. Loved it, loved you, and I really was praying you would take it. I saw you, Poteet, Connally, Vista Ridge and Dripping Springs, and out of those 5, I can feel comfortable in saying that it was a very close call between Connally and Hendrickson as far as top from Area D, but I feel like those two both topped Poteet.

 

I think what may have gotten to you was just Poteet's volume. They played really well and really extremely loud. While Hendrickson and Connally lacked the volume Poteet had, I think their musical clarity AT LEAST matched that of Poteet.

 

I don't know. I was really shocked at the results.

 

But congrats to everybody anyways!!

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I know.

 

I guess I meant like full... I can't really get an accurate word, because Hendrickson and Connally both had full sounds... it was just more controlled I guess? but that makes it seem like Poteet's sound was out of control and it wasn't...

 

I can't explain the thoughts in my head right now. sorry. :wacko:

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After watching Hendrickson on video, I agree that they sounded great. I still haven't seen everyone, but I have a hard time believing that 9th in music was justified. However, they had some ensemble marching issues, even when some sections weren't playing. That is probably what kept them out of the top 3. Cleaner forms probably would have upped those marching scores.

 

EDIT: Well scratch that. Even if both marching judges had Hendrickson 1st, they would have come in 4th.

Edited by Donezo
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After watching the competition from beginning to end what struck me about the prelim and finals scoring was how outdated the UIL scoring system seems to be with the "recent" trend in marching bands in high school. Many of the top bands are marching what I consider "BOA" style shows i.e. more visually elaborate, technically more difficult shows as opposed to what I call "UIL" style shows which I think stresses the basics more.

I was thinking the same thing about UIL scoring system being outdated. That's why I had so many questions.

I need to go read up on the scoring systems, I guess.

 

But sort of on the same topic, sort of off, if UIL switched to more of a BOA type judging system, would that merge the two (UIL and BOA) into one competition?? Would it "kill off" UIL completely?

Maybe we need some type of scoring system similar to figure skating? (I know, I know...more bias issues! LOL) But I was thinking, allow the bands to freestyle their show, but require them to perform certain basic techniques into the program. They'd get judged on artistic as well as technical in marching, then also judge them on music. I'm sure there would be problems with that system, but I'm just visualizing how many different scenarios can be created with different scoring systems and the pros and cons of them all.

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The question then comes down to the particular tastes of a judge. In visual, does a judge value overall form over individual form? Who knows, but they are trusted to make the right decisions.

 

I think that's one of Sherman's downfalls this year. We didn't have many "artsy fartsy" visuals that apparently the state judges tend to favor. We weren't very dramatic and we didn't have our woodwinds lay down for an entire section of a show, and we didn't have minute long visuals. We especially never laid down our horns to spin around a few times. Our mindset was to march faster(and slower), longer, louder than any band. To have the most physically demanding show in Texas. And I believe that we did. Thats why we would run a half a mile every rehearsal.

But apparently that's not how things work down here in Texas, and hopefully our directors realize that now.

Nevertheless, most of the bands in finals were amazing, and im glad to know that we are ranked among them.

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I think that's one of Sherman's downfalls this year. We didn't have many "artsy fartsy" visuals that apparently the state judges tend to favor. We weren't very dramatic and we didn't have our woodwinds lay down for an entire section of a show, and we didn't have minute long visuals. We especially never laid down our horns to spin around a few times. Our mindset was to march faster(and slower), longer, louder than any band. To have the most physically demanding show in Texas. And I believe that we did. Thats why we would run a half a mile every rehearsal.

But apparently that's not how things work down here in Texas, and hopefully our directors realize that now.

Nevertheless, most of the bands in finals were amazing, and im glad to know that we are ranked among them.

 

You're kidding me right????? The UIL system is set up to actually prefer you not use so many visuals. Artsy fartsy shows preferred by UIL????? No. That has NEVER been the case. Ever. If this was BOA, that might be the case. Even then, you would still have to perform the heck out of the shows just to contend.

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I think that's one of Sherman's downfalls this year. We didn't have many "artsy fartsy" visuals that apparently the state judges tend to favor. We weren't very dramatic and we didn't have our woodwinds lay down for an entire section of a show, and we didn't have minute long visuals. We especially never laid down our horns to spin around a few times. Our mindset was to march faster(and slower), longer, louder than any band. To have the most physically demanding show in Texas. And I believe that we did. Thats why we would run a half a mile every rehearsal.

But apparently that's not how things work down here in Texas, and hopefully our directors realize that now.

Nevertheless, most of the bands in finals were amazing, and im glad to know that we are ranked among them.

Oh no. UIL prefers straight up difficulty. They don't care too much about the visuals. You could go in there and perform a somewhat boring show but as long as it is played and marched flawlessly and has a certain level of difficulty, you'll go far in the UIL competitions.

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You're kidding me right????? The UIL system is set up to actually prefer you not use so many visuals. Artsy fartsy shows preferred by UIL????? No. That has NEVER been the case. Ever. If this was BOA, that might be the case. Even then, you would still have to perform the heck out of the shows just to contend.

 

 

Wow! couldn't have said it better myself.

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Whew...yesterday was one crazy day and I enjoyed every minute of it. Of course that's how it's been all season long. Amazingly proud of how we did yesterday and haven't even gathered all my thoughts yet. Still can't believe that we are a state finalist band...still trying to get used to that thought

 

Of course huge props to Area D. I know we all kind of joked that it would be cool if all four bands from the area made it, but even i didn't believe that could truly happen. And after 6 finalist bands had been announced after prelims, I was highly doubting that was gonna happen. Kind of ironic that the last four spots in finals went to Area D. They were just trying to scare us I guess. But yah, the announcer wasn't too fun to listen to. We (the drum majors) decided to salute the Area D bands when they were announced, and we couldn't really hear the difference between The Colony and Conally.

 

I don't think there should be any complaining about judges. No matter what scoring system you have, you're gonna have arguments and disagreements, kind of like College football. Judges, like every other person watching the bands look for different things in bands so of course there's gonna be variation in scoring. Plus all of the bands at the state level are so good and close to each other, that I would honestly hate to have their job.

 

Big congratz to the top 3 and especially Conally and their great comeback this year. I really think that Conally had one of my favorite shows this year, and listening to them as they warmed up for finals, I knew they were gonna bring it that night. Their show slowly grew on me this year.

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There is a UIL non-association rule where all of the judges must certify (I think before a Notary) that they have not had any direct association with the directors/members of any of the bands outside of a competition setting.

 

 

 

Right... Well my band director personally knows Frank Troyka... So how does that hold up...?

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Doesn't every band director pretty much personally know him?

 

For real. Directors know other directors. Heck, Pearce is in the same school district as Berkner. Granted Frank Troyka didn't wind up judging Pearce at state, but I don't think he would have been hired if it was a big deal.

Edited by Donezo
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For real. Directors know other directors. Heck, Pearce is in the same school district as Berkner. Granted Frank Troyka didn't wind up judging Pearce at state, but I don't think he would have been hired if it was a big deal.

 

 

 

Exactly, If anything they may hold you to a higher standard..

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Yeah, I think Sherman's problem was much simpler. Word from the dome is that the percussion significantly overbalanced the rest of the band which probably hurt the music score. I can't attest to the two tenths in marching but the music scores make sense in that respect.

 

When we told the winds to take down their volume about 2-3 weeks prior, we have had percussion balance issues ever since. In order to maintain tonal quality and sound we had to take down our volume, but the percussion just didn't match where we came down to.

 

You win some, and you lose some. Congrats to all the bands that got to state, and more kudos to those that made finals.

 

You're kidding me right????? The UIL system is set up to actually prefer you not use so many visuals. Artsy fartsy shows preferred by UIL????? No. That has NEVER been the case. Ever. If this was BOA, that might be the case. Even then, you would still have to perform the heck out of the shows just to contend.

 

Correct. UIL appears to be more precision based than anything else - GE doesn't even have a judge or caption in UIL.

Edited by reyky
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