Fata1 Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 AMEN*cough Bell* Last I checked, Bell has amazing marching. They hit set after set near flawlessly and their technique is amazing. Bell never took away the march out of marching, they just added theater to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 I agree. I had a discussion about that with my band director. You have to admit that LD Bell and Marcus had really good shows but where is the line between marching and not? I guess I am just a traditionalist. Also I think that not all bands can afford props and such at the level Bell and Marcus have. but I'm not going to penalize them for that because when it comes down their shows were pretty BA. What kind of props did Bell have??? The only props they used were flags (standard colorguard) and large flags that weren't on poles (the "clouds"). And Marcus. They didn't rely on their props for their exquisite music or marching, they just used them to enhance their crowd reaction; it's not like they were completely superfluous. The pods were cool, but they wouldn't have done much of anything to raise their GE score, the front flowerboards were just standard flag hiders with paper machet on them and again a GE judge wouldn't pay much attention to them. These things aren't for the judges, they are for the crowd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just_a_texas_girl Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 Props are not going to make or break you....Berkner did not use props and they did very well in finals....Reagan didn't use props either. And if the arguement is that props should not be used because some bands can afford them and some can't, I don't think I have ever seen Reagan use props and from what I have read, they could afford them if they wanted them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selby Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 What you had up was kind of what I was thinking. Everyone who used props in Finals used them with a purpose. Does that mean that all of them were turned, operated, or touched by another student during the show? No, but they can still create effect. I can probably take you down all of the Finalist shows and tell you how they used props. Richland? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynasty Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 Band is not just about musical experience. It has so much to do with the visual atmosphere too. In my Psych class, we talked about memories. The more senses that are stimulated from an event, the better chance we have to remember and appreciate it. We hear the music, see the colors and kids, and if those two are spot on, you can FEEL the performance (think about Bell and Marcus). Think about it... why do you actually go to a marching event instead of just listening to the performance? The props, while sometimes distracting, are no different than colorguard flags. The colors of their uniforms and flags tell you the mood and setting of the music. Churchill used white flags for the moment of silence... coincidence? Of course not! White is peace. Props do this too. Plants for Marcus? Very Appropriate! This visual experience is what adds to the band, yet no one questions the guard! Now-a-days, you always have a colorguard! I think props are the natural evolution of the marching art. I say all of this, and I should mention that I come from a band that didn't use props. While I was in high school, I felt the same way as many of you. After seeing yesterday's performances, I support props 100%. It all adds to the experience and the memory. Just my two cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treblemaker Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 What kind of props did Bell have??? The only props they used were flags (standard colorguard) and large flags that weren't on poles (the "clouds"). And Marcus. They didn't rely on their props for their exquisite music or marching, they just used them to enhance their crowd reaction; it's not like they were completely superfluous. The pods were cool, but they wouldn't have done much of anything to raise their GE score, the front flowerboards were just standard flag hiders with paper machet on them and again a GE judge wouldn't pay much attention to them. These things aren't for the judges, they are for the crowd. I'm not saying anything against the props. And I know Bell didn't have any props I guess I was just thinking of the white silk. I personally think it was a clever idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selby Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 If props are going to be used by some bands, not all, they shouldn't weigh in on the score, that's just no fair judging. Sure it might help accent the shows theme and design, but that's giving an advantage to the bands with props. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treblemaker Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 If props are going to be used by some bands, not all, they shouldn't weigh in on the score, that's just no fair judging. Sure it might help accent the shows theme and design, but that's giving an advantage to the bands with props. Marcus' props did not make them win! Are you kidding me? Were your ears open? Did were your eyes closed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selby Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 I do understand that Marcus sounded excellent and they sure did deserve the music caption, but what I am saying is their GE/Visual score was almost certainly affected by their use of props. We can't really debate about that until we get full scores however... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fata1 Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 Churchill used white flags for the moment of silence... coincidence? Of course not! White is peace. Oh my God. That standstill colorguard part during the moment of silence left me speechless. You could hear the flags move. It gave me chills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynasty Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 I see where you're coming from, but if we go that way than there's no competition. Why not have every band play the same piece of music and have the exact same drill so that one band doesn't have an advantage over another? THere will always be something that makes championship bands place higher than lower placing bands Haha, best point I've heard all thread long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selby Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 I see where you're coming from, but if we go that way than there's no competition. Why not have every band play the same piece of music and have the exact same drill so that one band doesn't have an advantage over another? THere will always be something that makes championship bands place higher than lower placing bands Money? From what I understand the judges are supposed to, although it doesn't mean they do, take into account the difficulty of the drill and music when scoring, so why shouldn't something similar to this be implemented for props? I would have no problem with props being used if there was something in the scoring that would keep them from adding points if a band has props, when another band does not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treblemaker Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 I see where you're coming from, but if we go that way than there's no competition. Why not have every band play the same piece of music and have the exact same drill so that one band doesn't have an advantage over another? THere will always be something that makes championship bands place higher than lower placing bands wow. the day that comes is the day marching band dies. how boring that would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbui Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 Just got back from San Antonio. What a fantastic competition. Congratulations to all of the bands that participated. I saw all 55 of you that performed in Prelims in addition to the 14 Finalist bands. What a weekend. Pics to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbui Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 Reading the previous posts about crossing the line in marching band.... Maybe it's just me but marching band is not just about marching and performing a classical piece of music. Marching band is an art form. A performing art. To me, the football field is a canvas and the band and colorguard acts as the paint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBandMom2008 Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 this is why we can do so well even though we rehearse much less...but if you compare the level of discipline now with the level that existed 15-30 years ago....you'd know kids these days as a whole care less about excellence, care less about structure and tradition than ever before. Sorry it took so long to repsond, but I was cleaning up the coffee that I choked on while reading this!!! Either you are misinformed or uniformed. The level of discipline 30 years ago was nothing compared to today. We practiced about an hour a day before school. It was too hot after school. (That's what we thought - it was in Texas on the asphalt parking lot that bands now spend 2 hours a day in the heat of the day rehearsing on) We were considered one of the top bands of our day, with consistent top scores to prove it and yet there was nothing near the effort as that put in by today's band kids. Ask around to the parents of today's band kids. Many of them were in band back in the day. The ones I've talked to, from all over the country, agree that much more effort is put in today than it was then. It was the 70's - rebelling against tradition and establishment was the rule of the day. "The same way they dumbed down the SAT because too many kids were failing it and they wanted to raise the pass rate which had been slipping in recent years at that time. " I seriously doubt it was the band kids that standardized testing was "dumbed down" for. Perhaps you should take a look at the following Music Education Facts. http://www.menc.org/information/advocate/facts.html If you're talking about kids today as a whole group, then you're completely changing the topic and should be considered on a different forum. This one is about band and the kids, teachers, parents and fans of such. I think if you reshearch a little more, you will find that band kids ranked amoung the highest performing on standardized testing before and after it was "dumbed down" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treblemaker Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 Sorry it took so long to repsond, but I was cleaning up the coffee that I choked on while reading this!!! Either you are misinformed or uniformed. The level of discipline 30 years ago was nothing compared to today. We practiced about an hour a day before school. It was too hot after school. (That's what we thought - it was in Texas on the asphalt parking lot that bands now spend 2 hours a day in the heat of the day rehearsing on) We were considered one of the top bands of our day, with consistent top scores to prove it and yet there was nothing near the effort as that put in by today's band kids. Ask around to the parents of today's band kids. Many of them were in band back in the day. The ones I've talked to, from all over the country, agree that much more effort is put in today than it was then. It was the 70's - rebelling against tradition and establishment was the rule of the day. "The same way they dumbed down the SAT because too many kids were failing it and they wanted to raise the pass rate which had been slipping in recent years at that time. " I seriously doubt it was the band kids that standardized testing was "dumbed down" for. Perhaps you should take a look at the following Music Education Facts. http://www.menc.org/information/advocate/facts.html If you're talking about kids today as a whole group, then you're completely changing the topic and should be considered on a different forum. This one is about band and the kids, teachers, parents and fans of such. I think if you reshearch a little more, you will find that band kids ranked amoung the highest performing on standardized testing before and after it was "dumbed down" random thought: My grandpa was in band in the 40s and he told me they didn't have competitions, hardly ever practiced and they all rode the city bus together. haha. He still has his trombone and original mouth piece which he bought for 5 dollars! I told him I was going to steal it one of these days. okay sorry had to say that. =] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBandMom2008 Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 Also I think that not all bands can afford props and such at the level Bell and Marcus have. but I'm not going to penalize them for that because when it comes down their shows were pretty BA. How is it that most people seem to think it takes a lot of money to afford props? Props in the band program I'm involved with are not purchased. They are built, and sewn and painted by band parents and kids who spend countless hours working on them. And where does the money for those supplies come from? From fundraising. Car washes, bake sales, concession sales, clean ups. If they will pay us for it, we'll try it. No one in our band program has an open checkbook to finance what we have. It's not about the money. It's about the effort. You know.....that effort that today's kids don't have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fata1 Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 My intent is not not to discredit the hard work of our state's kids (I can use 'our' now bc I'm no longer one of them). The kids of Texas are more dedicated than kids from any other state, this is why we can do so well even though we rehearse much less...but if you compare the level of discipline now with the level that existed 15-30 years ago....you'd know kids these days as a whole care less about excellence, care less about structure and tradition than ever before. More like they 'devolve'. As bands as a whole get sloppier they lower the standards to keep the scores high. The same way they dumbed down the SAT because too many kids were failing it and they wanted to raise the pass rate which had been slipping in recent years at that time. Kids these days don't study as much as they used to and teachers spend more time trying to invent new fun ways of presentation to get their kids into the material than they do actually TEACHING. I think this has trickled into the fine arts as well....though I'm not going to go as far to say that directors implemented design concepts purely to cover the increasing precision flaws of their bands? Of course I won't..... I strongly disagree. Compare L.D. Bell's videos from 30 years ago to now. The precision and quality is about the same but the music and drill now is so much harder than back then. Quality hasn't changed though. http://dfife.com/archive.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermanuel Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 Sorry it took so long to repsond, but I was cleaning up the coffee that I choked on while reading this!!! I love you, mommy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynasty Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 Alright guys, this topic is going crazy. Lets try to keep it on topic -- BOA SA Finals Results. Of course, you are more than welcome to start a thread on any topic, especially those being mentioned here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarinet_Lover41 Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 Good Job to everyone that performed last night it was a pretty amazing contest... i know i had a blast! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_n00b_trombonist Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 Is anybody going to write a detailed finals review? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBandMom2008 Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 Oh yes...Topic.... hmm...was there a contest recently? Sorry for getting off topic. Congrats to all the bands attending BOA SA and good luck to all those heading to GN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 How is it that most people seem to think it takes a lot of money to afford props? Props in the band program I'm involved with are not purchased. They are built, and sewn and painted by band parents and kids who spend countless hours working on them. And where does the money for those supplies come from? From fundraising. Car washes, bake sales, concession sales, clean ups. If they will pay us for it, we'll try it. No one in our band program has an open checkbook to finance what we have. It's not about the money. It's about the effort. You know.....that effort that today's kids don't have. Every time I hear parents in the stands complaining about how much money x band's props must have cost, I always chime in and let them know that they most likely weren't bought, they were made by band parents. You are absolutely right that it is all about effort, and that effort is on everybody's part, not just the kids, not just the directors, but the parents too. Marcus' flag hiders on the front sideline were just standard black flag hiders until the parents got ahold of them and made all of the beautiful flowers on them. Bell's huge white silk last year was just a bunch of white flags until the parents went through the logistical nightmare of sewing them all together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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