Junior Varsity (JV) Bands - Yea or Nay

[TxDragonDad]

So, about 4 years ago, Dragon band adopted a JV and Varsity marching band structure.   The varsity band is the competitive band and prepares the competitive show throughout the season.  The JV band is open to all marching students who did not make a varsity show spot.  The JV band marches a simpler show of more familiar music at football half time.    The varsity band stands in blocks at the back of the field for musical support.   JV band members can also volunteer for "crew" roles in the competitive show.   

 

What other bands split themselves in a similar fashion?   

Do you think it has helped or hurt the organization and how?

 

I'll hold my observations for a while so as to not bias the thread from the start.   

[Samuel Culper]

Vista Ridge does something similar. They have a silver band and red band. The red band performs the competition show, with silver band members working props, etc. During the football season there are a few silver band performances with ALL band members playing and marching the drill together. This has been in place for three years now and is working well.

[TWHSParent]

TWHS does not have a JV band at all. All band members are eligible for the "varsity" band. That being said, the positions are competitive, and therefore not every member gets to play an instrument during the show. Those students that do not will run the props. I don't know the exact ratio, but the large majority of band members are in the performance part of the marching band.

[Avisshadow]

Oak Ridge has had a separate JV band for years. Though I think only in the last few years they have made a separate show for football games that involves the entire band so the jv feel more involved instead of just used for props/sound system/shadowing in case of absences, etc.

 

I remember it was a huge issue when I was attending there when we were going through an explosion of growth, they would write the show months in advance before finding out how many people were enrolled in band for the coming year and while the show was written for like 250ish people there was like over 350 in band so a lot of people got left out and forced to be in the JV and at the time there was no separate show for them so the parents complained a lot in the meetings.

 

Long story short, I think it helps make the program better to have a Varsity/Junior Varsity split, leaving the most skilled to complete but make sure to have a separate show for the JV to participate in or else many will feel discouraged and quit.

[Ltowndad]

Interesting concept. Our HS band has been steadily growing in numbers over the past 5-6 years. I wonder how our relatively small community would respond to splitting the band along Competitive/Noncompetative lines.

[LeanderMomma]

As an avid band fan, I find these JV performances vastly disappointing. The kids work so very hard to learn their competition show and should have the pleasure of performing it every Friday night. The school certainly gets more pumped up in support for the band when they see excellence on the field. If you need to have a JV band, let them perform at the Freshmen football games. If the varsity football game has all varsity players on the field, and all varsity cheerleaders on the sidelines, why put a JV band out at halftime?

 

Leander marches the noncompetition kids in the Xbox on the field along with the full band at games, but not at competitions. That way they aren't left out and they are learning to be apart of excellence. I enjoy watching the Xbox on the field at football games. The kids seem to enjoy it as well.

 

Just my 2 cents. I'm on the soapbox tonight!

[scoobydoo]

As an avid band fan, I find these JV performances vastly disappointing. The kids work so very hard to learn their competition show and should have the pleasure of performing it every Friday night. The school certainly gets more pumped up in support for the band when they see excellence on the field. If you need to have a JV band, let them perform at the Freshmen football games. If the varsity football game has all varsity players on the field, and all varsity cheerleaders on the sidelines, why put a JV band out at halftime?

 

Leander marches the noncompetition kids in the Xbox on the field along with the full band at games, but not at competitions. That way they aren't left out and they are learning to be apart of excellence. I enjoy watching the Xbox on the field at football games. The kids seem to enjoy it as well.

 

Just my 2 cents. I'm on the soapbox tonight!

Round Rock does march their varsity sometimes at halftime. That usually will happen at their home games.

[LostChoirGuy]

Keller has had a nonvarsity for as long as we have been a part of the program, though how it has worked and what it is called I think has changed a few times. What I knew best was that the whole band learned the JV show and would perform a few minutes of it before doing their competition show during the early part of the season when they only had a short bit of the competition show learned. Then at the end of the season they would just play the JV show. In the middle of the height of marching season though they can use every chance they can to get a full run through of the competition show. Someone who has been a part of the Keller halftime program more recently can let me know if this is different.

[LeanderMomma]

Round Rock does march their varsity sometimes at halftime. That usually will happen at their home games.

That seems disappointing as well. I know I was certainly disappointed Friday night at the Vista Ridge game when Round Rock did not do their competition show. Also, it’s so incredibly satisfying to perform your amazing competition show at away games and letting the other schools see how good you are.

[A Testing Trumpet]

I have very strong opinions on JV marching bands, but I'm also heavily biased so I'll largely withhold my opinions. That being said, I will say that it all depends on why you are making a JV band. The most successful JV Bands will better equip students to do better at competitions, along with teaching life lessons that communicate that if you want something, you need to work for it. Simply put, If you are looking to make a new JV marching band and do not have the ability or drive to give the exact same level of education and dedication to your JV band as you do your Varsity (if not more so), then perhaps you should re-consider making one. If you already have a JV band, and you don't see your band improving from the change to a JV/Varsity format for an extended period of time, then what was the point to separating all of those marchers from the main group if your marchers are no better equipped than your old marchers were when the band was unified? in the worst case scenario, the only purpose the JV band has served in that case is to rob students of positive experiences at competitions that would have equipped them just the same as they did your old marchers. Plainly, I believe that if your JV band does not better equip students to march better then they would have in a single band format, then there is no collective gain from separating your marching bands.  

[Mash]

Vista Ridge does something similar. They have a silver band and red band. The red band performs the competition show, with silver band members working props, etc. During the football season there are a few silver band performances with ALL band members playing and marching the drill together. This has been in place for three years now and is working well.

I think it is two years now if I remember correctly.

 

My daughter was queen of the Xbox and it is a blessing and a curse.  They are included and vital to the full show.  But they get forgotten and not taught the marching skills they need to make it out of the Xbox.  The band directors and I went to battle a few times on this and they slowly started adding marching clinics for them to help prep them for the next year but it was hit and miss.  I would like to see a JV band and have them march at the freshman games and all band together for the full show at the varsity games.

[takigan]

Whether your JV kids are their own separate band or just a non-marching unit that acts more as managers/crew, they need to be marching and rehearsing as much as the varsity kids, otherwise your varsity will suffer in the long-term since your up-and-comings aren't developing like they should.  I was a mirror/shadow/alternate my freshman year (grades) and I remember sitting around quite a bit while the rest of the band played.  I had a spot for the rest of HS but I probably didn't develop as solid of marching skills as I could've if I'd been marching all that time.
 

My views on the issue are kind of complex, but to put it simply, there are a lot of kids in most marching bands who don't practice.  I'm a firm believer that if you're not practicing you don't need to be performing.  A varsity should have a bar of entry, and if you can't meet it then you don't get a spot.  That might mean marching 200 members or 100 members.

[A Testing Trumpet]

Bottom line, a JV band should seek to inspire a students' desire to perform, and by extension their individual marching. If that isn't happening to a degree that exceeds your previous format, then frankly it doesn't need to exist. 

[MadisonBandMan1]

We don’t have a jv band, but we do have shadows. Those students are on the field for the whole rehearsal except for the final run-through and the select few times the director asks them to step out for a rep, and even are told to trade reps with students who currently have the spot. The students are completely held accountable for their participation in every rep because the directors are closely watching and deciding who is going to match the spot at certain competitions. In my opinion, that is the perfect system. The students get to experience learning the whole competitive show and continuously develop their marching and playing skills in preparation for both the upcoming concert season where they have the opportunity to move up chairs and the next marching season where they have the opportunity to have their own spot.

[BlackJesus]

 

We don’t have a jv band, but we do have shadows. Those students are on the field for the whole rehearsal except for the final run-through and the select few times the director asks them to step out for a rep, and even are told to trade reps with students who currently have the spot. The students are completely held accountable for their participation in every rep because the directors are closely watching and deciding who is going to match the spot at certain competitions. In my opinion, that is the perfect system. The students get to experience learning the whole competitive show and continuously develop their marching and playing skills in preparation for both the upcoming concert season where they have the opportunity to move up chairs and the next marching season where they have the opportunity to have their own spot.

How does a shadow work exactly? I feel like they would get in the way a lot when marching.

[MadisonBandMan1]

 

How does a shadow work exactly? I feel like they would get in the way a lot when marching.

They follow the person who has the spot, usually staying right behind them but moving around when necessary. For the reps that they are shadowing, they don’t have their horn with them. For the reps that they are marching, they have their horn and the other person doesn’t. It works plenty fine for us. As long as the student is actively engaged in the rehearsal, they won’t get in the way.

[TxDragonDad]

Thanks for all the sharing of different programs' approaches.   There are always trade-offs and pros/cons to each method, and 1 size may not fit all.

 

 

Bottom line, a JV band should seek to inspire a students' desire to perform, and by extension their individual marching. If that isn't happening to a degree that exceeds your previous format, then frankly it doesn't need to exist. 

Thank you.   I think you are quite insightful and mature to make such a crisp and powerful comment.   

 

 

When considering any change, one has to ask why?  What's wrong?  What's the root cause of that "wrong"?   Then, ask will this change address the true root cause?   Will it create a new problem?   If so, which problem is worse - the original one or the new one?

 

IMHO - 

PROS of JV:

1) opportunity to perform music that could have popular appeal

2) opportunity to perform shows that are challenging but within reach for new/struggling marchers

3) opportunity to focus on fundamental skills so as to accelerate improvement

 

CONS:  
1) Treated like left overs, with assistant director support, no techs, etc. etc.

2) Delays fundamental skill growth

3) results in upper class students with fewer years of competitive environment exposure

 

You'll notice that my "pros" are all listed as "opportunities".   That's because I am not convinced that RR's JV program has developed sufficiently to achieve those opportunities.   It could have been all of that, but I fear it has resulted in causing the risks noted as "cons".

[Rudedog34]

We don’t have a jv band, but we do have shadows. Those students are on the field for the whole rehearsal except for the final run-through and the select few times the director asks them to step out for a rep, and even are told to trade reps with students who currently have the spot. The students are completely held accountable for their participation in every rep because the directors are closely watching and deciding who is going to match the spot at certain competitions. In my opinion, that is the perfect system. The students get to experience learning the whole competitive show and continuously develop their marching and playing skills in preparation for both the upcoming concert season where they have the opportunity to move up chairs and the next marching season where they have the opportunity to have their own spot.

 

[TxDragonDad]

For clarity, in the RR program any student can try out for and make Varsity band.   No one is excluded.    However, certain sections for more popular instruments may result in a small er percentage of those instruments making Varsity.    The varsity band composition is determined for proper size and balance of instruments.

[Band_dad_of_2]

I am very interested in this and how it affects the overall makeup of the bands who seem to dominate the 6A landscape. I wonder if all of the top bands in the state have JV programs...large JV numbers, not just 15 or 20 kids. 

 

As I said in another thread, it certainly helps when you can have bonafide tryouts and take only the best players.

[PSHSMom]

Well because of Plano's structure of their schools, they definitely have JV bands, but it's because all of their high schools 
are grades 9/10  only so they just play for the JV games.   But they all have their own shows and compete at UIL with them.  The Senior High Schools only have 11th/12th (for the most part, there is a small exception at Plano East due to the IB academy in the school which allows the kids in that academy to be part of band in 9/10th grades). 

 

I think for the High Schools who perform their own shows, this is a great lead into the Senior Highs and marching, and it can build confidence.  However,  I do think it affects the Senior Highs ability to compete with some of the other 6A's schools that are not limited to just 11/12th grade.  

 

I always wondered why Allen doesn't have a JV band.  I know a large band is impressive, but it can hurt them too in the competitions.  

[AvonDad]

This has been a very interesting read.  I can't think of any band in our area that has a JV marching band.  There have been a couple kids who may sit out, depending on the night, sickness fillers,  show design, whatever....but in the fall everyone is all in together.  This year about 1/3 of our band was freshman.  Their season starts with the shell shock "What have I gotten myself into?" to "I'm out, done, leaving..." to "I can do this" to "can't wait until next year".  Each kid is expected to perform up to standards, and the freshman have to pick up quick and learn what's expected of them.  They are a part of the band just like the seniors.  I think it  may have taken a bit longer to clean this year with all the newbies, but they stepped up in the end and did it, learning some great life lessons in the process.  They are no longer the same kids that stepped onto a practice field in July.  

 

Now AFTER marching band, they do split up into different groups.  We have 2 drum lines, 3 winter guards, 1 indoor winds and who knows what all else.  The upper classmen normally make up the world class groups with the lower ones filling in the class A groups.  However, each kid auditions and competes to get into the top groups.  

[LeanderMomma]

Interesting how different parts of the state and even the country do things in different ways. I wonder which is better, if any.

[Rudedog34]

This has been a very interesting read. I can't think of any band in our area that has a JV marching band. There have been a couple kids who may sit out, depending on the night, sickness fillers, show design, whatever....but in the fall everyone is all in together. This year about 1/3 of our band was freshman. Their season starts with the shell shock "What have I gotten myself into?" to "I'm out, done, leaving..." to "I can do this" to "can't wait until next year". Each kid is expected to perform up to standards, and the freshman have to pick up quick and learn what's expected of them. They are a part of the band just like the seniors. I think it may have taken a bit longer to clean this year with all the newbies, but they stepped up in the end and did it, learning some great life lessons in the process. They are no longer the same kids that stepped onto a practice field in July.

 

Now AFTER marching band, they do split up into different groups. We have 2 drum lines, 3 winter guards, 1 indoor winds and who knows what all else. The upper classmen normally make up the world class groups with the lower ones filling in the class A groups. However, each kid auditions and competes to get into the top groups.

 

[Band_dad_of_2]

This has been a very interesting read.  I can't think of any band in our area that has a JV marching band.  There have been a couple kids who may sit out, depending on the night, sickness fillers,  show design, whatever....but in the fall everyone is all in together.  This year about 1/3 of our band was freshman.  Their season starts with the shell shock "What have I gotten myself into?" to "I'm out, done, leaving..." to "I can do this" to "can't wait until next year".  Each kid is expected to perform up to standards, and the freshman have to pick up quick and learn what's expected of them.  They are a part of the band just like the seniors.  I think it  may have taken a bit longer to clean this year with all the newbies, but they stepped up in the end and did it, learning some great life lessons in the process.  They are no longer the same kids that stepped onto a practice field in July.  

 

Now AFTER marching band, they do split up into different groups.  We have 2 drum lines, 3 winter guards, 1 indoor winds and who knows what all else.  The upper classmen normally make up the world class groups with the lower ones filling in the class A groups.  However, each kid auditions and competes to get into the top groups.  

 

Separate subject but I'm curious.  In Texas, we have the UIL weekly practice limits....do they have anything like that in Indiana?  How much does Avon's band practice each week?