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How many Bands in TX match the UIL records of these 3 Bands.


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I looked up the records of most Bands in TX and found out that three Schools have records of 1st Division Ratings in Marching contest for many years. I am wondering if any of the Current Big  Name Bands can match these three schools with consecutive 1st Division ratings.

 

Plainview. 80 years consecutive 1st Division Ratings in Marching Contest

 

Odessa    76  years consecutive 1st Division Ratings in Marching Contest

 

Longview 68 years consecutive 1st Division Ratings in Marching Contest

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I looked up the records of most Bands in TX and found out that three Schools have records of 1st Division Ratings in Marching contest for many years. I am wondering if any of the Current Big  Name Bands can match these three schools with consecutive 1st Division ratings.

 

Plainview. 80 years consecutive 1st Division Ratings in Marching Contest

 

Odessa    76  years consecutive 1st Division Ratings in Marching Contest

 

Longview 68 years consecutive 1st Division Ratings in Marching Contest

 

probably not because most of the BIG NAME BANDS aren't that old.  I know Leander has 1st Division ratings for over 30 consecutive years now.  

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Leander is 99 years older than Cedar Park, which is the 2nd oldest school in LISD. Crazy, huh?

Yes it is. We moved to Cedar Park in 1998 and CPHS had just opened its doors. We live in the Leander HS district though. I remember being disappointed at the time because Cedar Park had built such a nice new facility and my girls were stuck going to an old school, but I didn’t regret it for long. My 30 year old daughter ran track for LHS, my 26 year old daughter played every sport they had just about and really excelled there, and my 19 year old got to experience some of the best competition years LHS band has had to date. Nope, not disappointed at all. ;-)

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I looked up the records of most Bands in TX and found out that three Schools have records of 1st Division Ratings in Marching contest for many years. I am wondering if any of the Current Big  Name Bands can match these three schools with consecutive 1st Division ratings.

 

Plainview. 80 years consecutive 1st Division Ratings in Marching Contest

 

Odessa    76  years consecutive 1st Division Ratings in Marching Contest

 

Longview 68 years consecutive 1st Division Ratings in Marching Contest

 

Okay, I just have to say a couple of things. First, I don't know about Plainview or Odessa, but I'm from East Texas and know a lot about the Longview program. During the 70's and 80's, Longview was one of the finest programs in the country. They were absolutely one of the very best at that time. However, in the last couple of decades, they have fallen in quality substantially. Of course they are very traditional and still march military, but the real tradition now is making sure that Longview never receives a second division. It is a "good old boys" network there and is like no other area in the state. I have personally witnessed them deserve a 2 and not receive one on multiple occasions. I'm a band directors son, was a music major in college, and have grown up in a community of band directors and it has been known by us all that Longview has received many gifts at marching contest and concert contest. If you are protected, it's easy to keep the streak going.

 

Second, what Longview does musically and drill-wise doesn't even come close to what is being done by the better corps style bands. Marching up and down the field playing almost nothing but marches pales in comparison to what's being performed today. The difficulty of the music being fielded by the top 20 or so bands at BOA San Antonio and the high quality at which it is being performed is a stark contrast to what Longview is doing now. There is also no comparison to the difficulty of the drill of the corps bands as well. The requirements of the corps style drill on the performers is way more demanding than the military style performer. Longview's drill has had very little change in the last 40 years and they are literally doing the same thing that their parents and grandparents did when they were in the Longview band. The corps style drill has been evolving and has had growing demand on the performer over this same time period. Counter-marches and popping turns doesn't begin to compare to marching backwards, with varying sized steps, with different bell positions, etc. and in something other than a straight line. They just don't compare. I've marched both styles and have 50+ of experience on which to base my opinion.

 

Finally, it's not how long you've been doing something, but how well you are doing it now and if you are improving and really competing. I don't want to take anything away from Longview when they were one of the best and they were. But that time has been gone a long time and what's being done today by so many is what is truly impressive to me now. And if you don't believe me, watch some videos on Youtube of what's considered the better military bands like Longview or Henderson. The only innovative band in that area is Spring Hill and they still don't perform at the level of the majority of corps style bands.

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Yes it is. We moved to Cedar Park in 1998 and CPHS had just opened its doors. We live in the Leander HS district though. I remember being disappointed at the time because Cedar Park had built such a nice new facility and my girls were stuck going to an old school, but I didn’t regret it for long. My 30 year old daughter ran track for LHS, my 26 year old daughter played every sport they had just about and really excelled there, and my 19 year old got to experience some of the best competition years LHS band has had to date. Nope, not disappointed at all. ;-)

we moved to San Antonio in 2009 when CTJ was heading into their second year - they are celebrating their 10th anniversary this year

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Don't know what other bands that have better UIl records than the 3 you mentioned but for BOA Grand Nationals pretty sure only 4 band have ever brought home the Eagle to Texas are ( 3 from Houston: Spring, Westfield, The Woodlands) and one from Dallas: LD Bell from Dallas

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Okay, I just have to say a couple of things. First, I don't know about Plainview or Odessa, but I'm from East Texas and know a lot about the Longview program. During the 70's and 80's, Longview was one of the finest programs in the country. They were absolutely one of the very best at that time. However, in the last couple of decades, they have fallen in quality substantially. Of course they are very traditional and still march military, but the real tradition now is making sure that Longview never receives a second division. It is a "good old boys" network there and is like no other area in the state. I have personally witnessed them deserve a 2 and not receive one on multiple occasions. I'm a band directors son, was a music major in college, and have grown up in a community of band directors and it has been known by us all that Longview has received many gifts at marching contest and concert contest. If you are protected, it's easy to keep the streak going.

 

Second, what Longview does musically and drill-wise doesn't even come close to what is being done by the better corps style bands. Marching up and down the field playing almost nothing but marches pales in comparison to what's being performed today. The difficulty of the music being fielded by the top 20 or so bands at BOA San Antonio and the high quality at which it is being performed is a stark contrast to what Longview is doing now. There is also no comparison to the difficulty of the drill of the corps bands as well. The requirements of the corps style drill on the performers is way more demanding than the military style performer. Longview's drill has had very little change in the last 40 years and they are literally doing the same thing that their parents and grandparents did when they were in the Longview band. The corps style drill has been evolving and has had growing demand on the performer over this same time period. Counter-marches and popping turns doesn't begin to compare to marching backwards, with varying sized steps, with different bell positions, etc. and in something other than a straight line. They just don't compare. I've marched both styles and have 50+ of experience on which to base my opinion.

 

Finally, it's not how long you've been doing something, but how well you are doing it now and if you are improving and really competing. I don't want to take anything away from Longview when they were one of the best and they were. But that time has been gone a long time and what's being done today by so many is what is truly impressive to me now. And if you don't believe me, watch some videos on Youtube of what's considered the better military bands like Longview or Henderson. The only innovative band in that area is Spring Hill and they still don't perform at the level of the majority of corps style bands.

I realize that Longview is a military style Band and from your comments you have a real problem with Longviews performances during recent years. I did not ask the question about their style of marching, unfortunately you did. By the way both Odessa and PLainview are Corps style bands.  I realize that you are very partial to Corps Style Bands, which is your right. I also respect LD Bell that has had 58 consecutive 1st Division Marching Ratings.  Saying that military drill is in your opinion not worthwhile is like me asking why not one TX Band can march on the Street like Arcadia, CA.  Their record matches that of our BOA winners only they did it in Street Style Marching. 

 

If you think that the ratings are cooked, then call out the judges. I think that there is no Band that does not do Corps style Marching you would really approve off.      That is sad. I had a University Professor who directs a major University Band in CA who despises Corps style drill, and his Band does not do any Corps style marching. Fortunately He keeps his opinions to himself because he sees many Good Bands directed by his former students who do corps style shows. Maybe you could have done the same. 

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Longview was very impressive even as a military band, but Hard Core Band fan is right on one point for sure, Longview is not what it used to be.  I'm not sure why but they haven't been as crisp the last few years and now their band director is retiring.  Spring Hill is the best marching band in Longview now by far, that doesn't take away from 70 years of first division ratings though.  There's alot of military bands in that area that are just as old but don't have a 70 year streak behind them. 

 

That being said, LD Bell is the only school currently in contention for 6a finals that is even that old.  Hebron is about the same age as CTJ, Marcus is the oldest school in Flower Mound at 37 years.  North Shore is 56 years old, so close to LD Bell but not the others.  So no one is probably going to break that 70 year streak at this point except perhaps LD Bell if one of those three bands stumble.

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I cant seem to find anywhere the year that Keller High School opened. I founds some articles about Keller sports hall of fame inductees that went as far back as 1948, so it is at least that old. Classmates.com claims there are alumni from as early as 1936 that went to Keller High, but Im not sure I trust that. Using the conservative year of 1948, Keller is at least 70 years old. However, for a vast majority of that time it was a tiny school. Keller didnt really become a place on the map until they built the DFW airport in the 80s.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I realize that Longview is a military style Band and from your comments you have a real problem with Longviews performances during recent years. I did not ask the question about their style of marching, unfortunately you did. By the way both Odessa and PLainview are Corps style bands.  I realize that you are very partial to Corps Style Bands, which is your right. I also respect LD Bell that has had 58 consecutive 1st Division Marching Ratings.  Saying that military drill is in your opinion not worthwhile is like me asking why not one TX Band can march on the Street like Arcadia, CA.  Their record matches that of our BOA winners only they did it in Street Style Marching. 

 

If you think that the ratings are cooked, then call out the judges. I think that there is no Band that does not do Corps style Marching you would really approve off.      That is sad. I had a University Professor who directs a major University Band in CA who despises Corps style drill, and his Band does not do any Corps style marching. Fortunately He keeps his opinions to himself because he sees many Good Bands directed by his former students who do corps style shows. Maybe you could have done the same. 

 

I also taught in East Texas, and this guy is correct. Longview is gifted first division ratings, and they're drill/execution is a shell of what it used to be. I have seen it first hand, and the judges are in on it. The region coordinators literally get judges that are "old school" and will help keep the streak going.

 

I've seen old Longview videos... and even being military, it was TRULY impressive. Precision execution and drill that is fun to watch. Nowadays, they typically drag the field and do a countermarch, occasionally they'll stagger into diagonals or make a chevron.... But you can't possibly say what they are doing nowadays is impressive. If you want to see impressive in the ETX region, military specifically, you need to go see Lindale, Carthage, or Cleveland (which is down near Houston). Word on the street is that Lufkin will be a powerhouse here in a few years for the military bands. I know Kingwood was the real deal in the late 90's, but I don't much about them these days.

 

You took this dude's comment way too personally. He was offering a perspective and some history behind a band that honestly not a lot of people on this site know much about. Kids in most city area corps bands don't even know military marching exists, so this is a perspective that needs to be shared in my opinion, especially because it's true.

 

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I also taught in East Texas, and this guy is correct. Longview is gifted first division ratings, and they're drill/execution is a shell of what it used to be. I have seen it first hand, and the judges are in on it. The region coordinators literally get judges that are "old school" and will help keep the streak going.

 

I've seen old Longview videos... and even being military, it was TRULY impressive. Precision execution and drill that is fun to watch. Nowadays, they typically drag the field and do a countermarch, occasionally they'll stagger into diagonals or make a chevron.... But you can't possibly say what they are doing nowadays is impressive. If you want to see impressive in the ETX region, military specifically, you need to go see Lindale, Carthage, or Cleveland (which is down near Houston). Word on the street is that Lufkin will be a powerhouse here in a few years for the military bands. I know Kingwood was the real deal in the late 90's, but I don't much about them these days.

 

You took this dude's comment way too personally. He was offering a perspective and some history behind a band that honestly not a lot of people on this site know much about. Kids in most city area corps bands don't even know military marching exists, so this is a perspective that needs to be shared in my opinion, especially because it's true.

 

I think one has to ask why only one of the three schools mentioned was battered by some folks. Is that because people Odessa and the Lubbock areas seem to be a bit friendlier to each other. I do not know. I do not live in East Texas so I do not understand the total angst the word Longview Brings to some directors. If I am correct, Longview only marches in UIL Region Contest and has not entered either UIL Area or other contests for Many years. The comment about the Region Secretaries getting judges who are favorable to this Band, I will not address since I have not been to Region 21 Marching Contest.  I think a problem exists in that most military marching bands will not take part in contests that favor Corps Style Groups. Nor do their fans care who wins BOA or other contests. Lets let Longview got to the side and see if you can say anything positive about Plainview and Odessa.

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I think one has to ask why only one of the three schools mentioned was battered by some folks. Is that because people Odessa and the Lubbock areas seem to be a bit friendlier to each other. I do not know. I do not live in East Texas so I do not understand the total angst the word Longview Brings to some directors. If I am correct, Longview only marches in UIL Region Contest and has not entered either UIL Area or other contests for Many years. The comment about the Region Secretaries getting judges who are favorable to this Band, I will not address since I have not been to Region 21 Marching Contest.  I think a problem exists in that most military marching bands will not take part in contests that favor Corps Style Groups. Nor do their fans care who wins BOA or other contests. Lets let Longview got to the side and see if you can say anything positive about Plainview and Odessa.

You are correct that they only go to Region. Most military bands exclusively go to region marching contest, some go to NAMMB (national association of military marching bands) contest as well. I do not know enough about Plainview or Odessa outside of that they are decent-good. Plainview was in Area finals just last year.

 

East Texas military bands have a big mindset of "us against them" and they have brainwashed their students into actually HATING corps style marching. It's actually a very sad culture that the "old guy's club" has established out there and it's holding programs with great kids who could be wildly successful back majorly. Just look at Mineola for example, the reigning 3A state champs (and I believe honor band). Just 4-5 years ago Mineola marched military and was pretty meh, and now they are one of the top bands in the state and definitely one of the top bands in ETX as far as marching band, granted a lot of that success is also a result of who their new director is.

 

The military game has been saturated for years with mediocre drill and lack of attention to detail in the execution aspect and instead of fighting to make it clean and changing literally ANYTHING, they do the same thing every year and just tell themselves that there is a bias towards corps style. Even just changing some of the tunes to something more engaging than a quick step march that 20 other bands are also playing that year would go a long ways, but it simply won't happen. At the end of the day, it comes down to the game changing and them not being willing to adapt.  It's the same thing as trying to win the super bowl without using the forward pass, or the NBA championship without shooting the 3. In my opinion, military bands can't possibly complain about results at contests if they aren't making an effort to appeal to the judges/audience. That being said, a good amount of East Texas towns' audiences do prefer the quick step marches as it's what they have also been raised on, and they don't see the need to be competitive at the area/state level. The culture of mediocrity is woven into the fibers that make the East Texas marching band scene what it is.

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I realize that Longview is a military style Band and from your comments you have a real problem with Longviews performances during recent years. I did not ask the question about their style of marching, unfortunately you did. By the way both Odessa and PLainview are Corps style bands.  I realize that you are very partial to Corps Style Bands, which is your right. I also respect LD Bell that has had 58 consecutive 1st Division Marching Ratings.  Saying that military drill is in your opinion not worthwhile is like me asking why not one TX Band can march on the Street like Arcadia, CA.  Their record matches that of our BOA winners only they did it in Street Style Marching. 

 

If you think that the ratings are cooked, then call out the judges. I think that there is no Band that does not do Corps style Marching you would really approve off.      That is sad. I had a University Professor who directs a major University Band in CA who despises Corps style drill, and his Band does not do any Corps style marching. Fortunately He keeps his opinions to himself because he sees many Good Bands directed by his former students who do corps style shows. Maybe you could have done the same. 

 

You missed the point completely. First, I stated that they were a very good band at one time, but that is no longer true. Style has nothing to do with that. Then I stated that it was a widely held opinion of many that some of the newer ratings were inflated. This opinion is held by people (educated and experienced band people) that know the difference and have the ability to make that determination. Some of them are seasoned marching judges. At no point did I state that military was "not worthwhile". My real point was that a streak isn't valid unless it was legitimate. You presented this as a record that we should measure other bands in the state against. My question is why should we? What purpose is served? Especially since the three bands you've listed aren't considered top tier bands today.

 

As far as what I like, I like quality bands, regardless of style. And as far as keeping my opinions to myself, this is a discussion forum. It's kind of what we do here and most everything here is someone's opinion. Some right, some wrong. 

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When I was in high school band, military style was the only thing I knew.  I had never even heard of corps style marching until my daughter was a freshman at Leander in 2013.  I remember the first "parent performance" at the end of summer band camp, and I was like "YUCK!  What is this crazy stuff they are doing on the field?  That is NOT marching."  I mean I really HATED it at first.  And when I saw Johnson do their thing, I was completely baffled and frankly a bit disgusted by how "artsy fartsy" it was.  And it wasn't that I was taught to hate corps style by any means.  I just didn't understand it and had never been exposed to it.  It wasn't my "comfort zone."  Fortunately, I started to view it with new eyes in 2014 as Leander had such great success with their show Color Study.  And I came to appreciate the other bands as well, though I was still on the fence with CTJ.  :D   By the time 2015 rolled around, I was all in.  I loved all of the corps style shows, and I was fascinated by everything they did on the field.  I started to fall in love with DCI that year as well, and finally realized what the fuss was all about.  Now I'm hooked for life and have lost interest in seeing military style bands.  I don't hate them by any means.  I just don't enjoy them as much anymore.  So I came full circle and it was by my own experience.  No one brainwashed me or forced me into accepting corps style over military.  I just grew to love and appreciate it simply by experiencing it.  It's sad that the "old guys" high school directors can't do the same and have an appreciation for both styles.  

 

I quite agree and remember, I am an old guy that came from the military world. I've been going to competitions for 50+ years and grew up in band halls, auditoriums, and stadiums.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The premise of the original question is a good one and I don't want to upset anyone or disparage any band program. However, let's be honest for a minute. As has been pointed out previously in this thread measures of longevity have a certain inherent bias but isn't there an even larger issue. A Division I rating is actually a remarkably low standard. It's more of a recognition of competence than one of excellence. It's really just the first step in the climb to excellence.

 

For example, a Division I rating at Region is the requirement for advancement to Area. Lots of band do that. But then the band has to make Area Finals, followed by being one of the Top Area Finalist so they can advance to State. At State the band must again make Finals before competing for the State Championship. A clear Mark of Excellence.

 

A State Championship puts a band into an extremely exclusive group. And who can compare to Duncanville in that regard. Maybe Marcus? While certainly noteworthy, this is probably far too exclusive a standard for determining long term excellence of a program. Perhaps State Finalist is a better standard. Duncanville and Marcus both continue to advance to State Finals in years when they are not expected to win the Championship. So do many other excellent band programs that haven't won recently, or ever.

 

Sports and business have taught me that percentage statistics are generally much more important and informative than counting statistics. So who comes to mind as the top programs consistently, but not necessarily consecutively, making State Finals regardless of Class? Currently and historically? As a percentage of years the program has existed or in high quality eras? Do they sustain excellence across multiple directors?

 

Any other ideas for how to look at this?

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