CTJBandPops Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 Lots of movement last week after the BOA Austin regional and expect the same after today's DFW (South Lake) Regional I would say that Hebron win was an upset - everyone expected to see FloMo with a win -Hebron winning Music, Visual and sharing GE with Flomo is a major impact. FloMo has held the #1 spot (finished 2nd) Hebron held #8 spot (finished 1st) Marcus held # 12 spot (finished 3rd) a great deal of movement last week as we saw 8 of the top 30 in Austin - smaller number today in DFW but the impact could be huge - especially with FloMo sitting in first Tuesday will tell what the changes will bring to the rankings and there should be even more with TWHS and Reagan (#5 and #11 respectively) coming up in Conroe gotta love Marching Band in Texas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeanderMomma Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 Lots of movement last week after the BOA Austin regional and expect the same after today's DFW (South Lake) Regional gotta love Marching Band in Texas This is hands down THE most exciting year for Texas bands in quite some time. I'm so excited for Conroe next weekend, and just beside myself for BOA SA! Maybe I WILL buy those VIP tickets!! CTJBandPops 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTJBandPops Posted October 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 This is hands down THE most exciting year for Texas bands in quite some time. I'm so excited for Conroe next weekend, and just beside myself for BOA SA! Maybe I WILL buy those VIP tickets!! look forward to seeing you there!! I agree - with TWHS and Reagan (and others) yet to show BOA their shows and with what we have already seen from Austin and DFW BOA - SA will be stacked this year with Avon on top of it. Houston next week and Midland after that - I have my tickets and hotel rooms for both - going to be a heck of a season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWHSParent Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 I am also really looking forward to the upcoming contests. I didn't splurge on San Antonio (got reserved seats), but I did buy the MFA Club seats for Indianapolis. If anyone needs some info about the area around Conroe/The Woodlands for next week let me know and I'll pass on what I can (I've lived here for 4 years - I know it can be tough finding things in The Woodlands, since the trees hide most things around here). CTJBandPops and whitewing09 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post principalagent Posted October 1, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 Got MFA club seats for the second year in a row for Grand Nationals. Very excited. I’ll be “slumming” it in GA for San Antonio, but might find myself in the press box to catch up with the Dans and some other pals throughout the two days. whitewing09, JeremiahW and CTJBandPops 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson1 Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 I checked out of those rankings when they put Flower Mound ahead of the GN champs. Originally their rule was the GN champ is alway #1 so when they placed Flomo #1 they were basically saying that if Flomo attended Grand Nats they would have beaten the actual champ who did attend AND win. I took that as a clear bias, not to mention insulting to the GN winner, in the rankings and checked out. Had they placed Flomo at #2 I would have had no problem. CTJBandPops 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTJBandPops Posted October 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 I am also really looking forward to the upcoming contests. I didn't splurge on San Antonio (got reserved seats), but I did buy the MFA Club seats for Indianapolis. If anyone needs some info about the area around Conroe/The Woodlands for next week let me know and I'll pass on what I can (I've lived here for 4 years - I know it can be tough finding things in The Woodlands, since the trees hide most things around here). we will not be going to Indy - though that may change - But we will be cheering for TWHS at Indy - class act school - my oldest marched in 2014 - TWHS invited them to their campus after prelims and stayed to watch the encore both in Conroe and San Antonio - AWESOME group of kids - we are hoping they bring the Eagle back to Texas - again TWHSParent 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
principalagent Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 I checked out of those rankings when they put Flower Mound ahead of the GN champs. Originally their rule was the GN champ is alway #1 so when they placed Flomo #1 they were basically saying that if Flomo attended Grand Nats they would have beaten the actual champ who did attend AND win. I took that as a clear bias, not to mention insulting to the GN winner, in the rankings and checked out. Had they placed Flomo at #2 I would have had no problem. I don’t think this is totally fair. The GN champion only barely/technically won the competition as it stands. And it’s totally reasonable that the best band in the country didn’t even attend (because both potentials didn’t last year). CTJBandPops 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTJBandPops Posted October 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 I checked out of those rankings when they put Flower Mound ahead of the GN champs. Originally their rule was the GN champ is alway #1 so when they placed Flomo #1 they were basically saying that if Flomo attended Grand Nats they would have beaten the actual champ who did attend AND win. I took that as a clear bias, not to mention insulting to the GN winner, in the rankings and checked out. Had they placed Flomo at #2 I would have had no problem. agreed - I know that they use a lot of different events to rank - but ranking a national champion that did not compete is suspect - but they did the same with Broken Arrow - they are ranked 2nd nationally but did not appear at GNats last year CTJBandPops 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTJBandPops Posted October 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 I don’t think this is totally fair. The GN champion only barely/technically won the competition as it stands. And it’s totally reasonable that the best band in the country didn’t even attend (because both potentials didn’t last year). I believe this could be remedied by moving the Gnats around to the super regional sites - this would let others have the ability to compete on a national level. There is an advantage for schools like Carmel, Avon, Mason, Castle, Homestead, and Marion that Indy is a "local" event for them - I do not say that to degrade their programs as they are phenomenal - but how many Texas bands did not compete because it was not planned in advance as those trips are expensive and have to be planned 2+ years in advance. Look at FloMo last 2 years, CTJ in 2014, Marcus and Hebron over the years - to name a few - it would be easier to bring the Eagle back to Texas if the Eagle was challenged in Texas. 14 of the top 30 reside in Texas - Grand Nats "South" should at some point be Grand Nats - I will get off my soapbox now and say I am excited to see that Avon is coming south this year - and hope they are dominated by the many great bands of Texas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zururoua Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 If only the Alamodome had the logistics of Lucas Oil, then maybe Gnats could be in Texas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post principalagent Posted October 1, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 If only the Alamodome had the logistics of Lucas Oil, then maybe Gnats could be in Texas. Yep. Lucas Oil Stadium and downtown Indy are perfect for the event - the only downside is the weather, but even that’s mitigated by tons of indoor warmup and performance space. The stadium was also designed for marching arts. Additionally, Indy is within a day’s drive from the vast majority of the continental states. Nowhere comes remotely close logistically. San Antonio’s parking lot can barely hold 60 trailers and 3-7 times as many buses. 90 to 100 would completely block out the stadium. Hotels are also a walk away, and I don’t think can hold that many bands. I wish GN would come closer to Texas too but it just won’t happen until there’s another LOS somewhere else in the nation. Hard Core Band Fan, CTJBandPops and FloMoParent 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTJBandPops Posted October 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 If only the Alamodome had the logistics of Lucas Oil, then maybe Gnats could be in Texas. not saying it needs to be at the Dome - but Dallas and Houston have hosted Superbowls (Like Indy) and could handle the challenge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTJBandPops Posted October 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 to my point - though this will change in the next 2 weeks 15 of the top 30 will be at BOA San Antonio - including 4 additional bands that are in the "next 10" and could move into the top 30 (Coppell, Bowie, LD Bell, Vista Ridge) 17 of the top 30 will be in Indy - with 5 of them coming from Texas - 6 of the current top 15 will not make the trek to Indy - (and 10 of the top 30) because it is too expensive and they need to plan years in advance to compete with no idea if that is a show that can compete at that level I know it has been debated before - but just had to say it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JeremiahW Posted October 1, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 I checked out of those rankings when they put Flower Mound ahead of the GN champs. Originally their rule was the GN champ is alway #1 so when they placed Flomo #1 they were basically saying that if Flomo attended Grand Nats they would have beaten the actual champ who did attend AND win. I took that as a clear bias, not to mention insulting to the GN winner, in the rankings and checked out. Had they placed Flomo at #2 I would have had no problem. agreed - I know that they use a lot of different events to rank - but ranking a national champion that did not compete is suspect - but they did the same with Broken Arrow - they are ranked 2nd nationally but did not appear at GNats last year The judges' responsibility is to rank the best bands at Grand Nats. It's our responsibility to rank the best bands in the nation. Unfortunately, because many of the best bands in the nation don't attend Grand Nats, those two aren't identical. As someone who saw every single band in the rankings in person at least twice last season (I think Christopher Drake is the only other person in the world who can say that), there are three bands who would have beaten Carmel at Grand Nats. And the numbers management that produced would have likely given Avon the higher score as well. whitewing09, FloMoParent, CTJBandPops and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson1 Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 Ok. I was not aware that Grand Nats is basically treated like another super regional. I thought it would carry more weight but it makes sense now. Thx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTJBandPops Posted October 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 The judges' responsibility is to rank the best bands at Grand Nats. It's our responsibility to rank the best bands in the nation. Unfortunately, because many of the best bands in the nation don't attend Grand Nats, those two aren't identical. As someone who saw every single band in the rankings in person at least twice last season (I think Christopher Drake is the only other person in the world who can say that), there are three bands who would have beaten Carmel at Grand Nats. And the numbers management that produced would have likely given Avon the higher score as well. point taken - thanks for your feedback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson1 Posted October 3, 2017 Report Share Posted October 3, 2017 When do these rankings come out? Every Friday? Haven't been looking at them in a while. Thx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
principalagent Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 When do these rankings come out? Every Friday? Haven't been looking at them in a while. Thx Tuesdays! They’re out now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson1 Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 Interesting rankings for the Texas bands after Southlake. Not sure of the rationale or reasoning but it is what it is. Usually head to head leads to a clear result. I would have had it either Johnson, Hebron, Flomo or Hebron, Flomo, Johnson. Depends on which band one thinks is further ahead in the process. Should be interesting after Conroe. CTJBandPops and LeanderMomma 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post principalagent Posted October 5, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 The idea is that while it’s part point-in-time, growth potential also plays a role. Additionally, the formula that creates the rankings also includes prior results (including from the last year when they dominated), which is holding FloMo in the top two as well. And finally, FloMo won prelims by a solid margin, so there’s still an argument that they shouldn’t be ranked lower anyway. whitewing09, CTJBandPops and LeanderMomma 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hard Core Band Fan Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 I think the Hornrank crew does a really good job and take a lot of factors into consideration. I haven't noticed any bias on their part. FloMoParent and CTJBandPops 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson1 Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 Look, I am a fan of Hornrank and what they do. I am just saying that what a band did last year has no bearing at all on what they do this year. Rankings are a snapshot in time. Did Flomo have a great year last year? Absolutely!! They won this contest one year ago by almost 4 pts. That could be a record. This year they placed second which has nothing to do with what they did last year. Zero. The Woodlands won Grand Nats in 2013 and took 5th at SA the next year. Leander didn't make finals at SA in 2013 and took 3rd place the next year. My point is that the second a band takes the field in a new season what they did last year cannot affect what they do this year. Only what they do in that first contest and what they do in the future should be considered in a ranking. You can use last year as an indicator but not as a data point. Are these rankings based on finals or prelims and don't all bands have huge growth potential at this point? I do not have a horse in the race. All of these bands are crazy good. I am merely voicing my opinion on the rankings. Keep doing what you are doing and I promise I will not comment on this again. THX Anarod14 and CTJBandPops 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nny14 Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 Look, I am a fan of Hornrank and what they do. I am just saying that what a band did last year has no bearing at all on what they do this year. Rankings are a snapshot in time. Did Flomo have a great year last year? Absolutely!! They won this contest one year ago by almost 4 pts. That could be a record. This year they placed second which has nothing to do with what they did last year. Zero. The Woodlands won Grand Nats in 2013 and took 5th at SA the next year. Leander didn't make finals at SA in 2013 and took 3rd place the next year. My point is that the second a band takes the field in a new season what they did last year cannot affect what they do this year. Only what they do in that first contest and what they do in the future should be considered in a ranking. You can use last year as an indicator but not as a data point. Are these rankings based on finals or prelims and don't all bands have huge growth potential at this point? I do not have a horse in the race. All of these bands are crazy good. I am merely voicing my opinion on the rankings. Keep doing what you are doing and I promise I will not comment on this again. THX Agreed. Also not sure why growth of a band should be considered even if it might be true. That should only matter for their contest predictions. Why should a group beat another on week 3 for potential growth? If that is the case rank them accordingly when that time comes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostChoirGuy Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 I dont think hornrank is meant to show a "snapshot in time". I think it is rating the overall quality of the band as they see it. Hebron may have won during finals last week but that doesnt necessarily mean that they are a higher quality band. Early season contest results are indicative of potential, but not always very good at ranking overall quality of bands because every band is at a different point in learning their show. Keep in mind that Hebron's fantastic performance was only a partial show. In my opinion, their show at this stage had a better effect because they stopped at a better place than FloMo. Both are definitely top 5 bands either way, and that's pretty amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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