2017 Grand Nationals

[whitewing09]

I almost think these mics are needed for larger stadiums. Broken arrow was definitely shotgunning (these mics are know as shotgun mics) and their woodwind runs were a lot more discernible. Even though this may be 'cheating' for brass, I think it really helps to bring out the woodwinds. I was sitting in the section below the judges (I think) and I could barely hear the woodwinds of the bands who weren't shotgunning. These large stadiums can really swallow the sound.

[zururoua]

I am absolutely in favor of full ensemble mics for any band that can get their hands on them. It's hard to sound good while playing as loud as some of these bands do, and being able to play 5% softer and get the same volume from the judge's perspective is a huge win. While some argue it's not about making it easier, think about it this way:

if the band members can use 5% less energy on playing loud, not only do they sound better but they have more energy to focus on visual responsibilities. This means the directors can spend less time yelling at brass to play louder (or play with better tone) and more time learning and cleaning choreography, not to mention learning and cleaning drill. It's a win win imo.

[NTXBandFan]

The mic-ing of the entire band was something I️ noticed sitting in sec 441 for semis and 239 for finals. According to my recollection and verified by the jolesch photos used for the txband live blog (which was great btw), there were three finalist bands who utilized full band mics - Avon (already mentioned); Marian Catholic (7 between 22 1/2 yard lines with one the 50); and Marcus (6 between the 35s). These mics were in the range of 6 to 8 feet tall. Yes, completely within the rules, or more accurately, not against the rules. My strong preference is a solid NO for this practice. Does it make a difference; absolutely. Nothing brings out oooohs and aaahhs from the crowd (and music GE judges) than huge impact points.

I wish it wasn't a thing, and kind of lean toward hoping they figure out a way to outlaw it.  It places a bigger emphasis on the kids working the sound board, than there should be.  It allows bands to hide their weaknesses from the judges in the booth.  It's unfortunate, but since there isn't a rule prohibiting it, there's not much we can do.

[TxDragonDad]

I understand....

I'd still like to see a screen grab of the mics you're saying were pointed to the whole band.  

 

 

 

[Danpod]

Ohhhhhhhh, shotgun mics.  I can tell you that those things have been a very well-debated topic among the staff and our buddies all season long.  

[principalagent]

One interesting point that a band director friend brought up is that in Texas, we’re restricted for practice time, and can’t use shotguns for UIL. Directors then, especially in state years, basically have to spend precious time re-balancing the ensemble between competitions. Is that truly productive for music education?

[Rudedog34]

Thanks, I never noticed those. It's a first for me to see something like that. I've never seen any of the Texas bands do that.

There are many Tx bands that use directional (shotgun mics). They were prevalent even at BOA Austin.

It was the first year in my 4 years of envolvement that our band used them. I don't know for a fact why, our directors prefer unfiltered, unamplified sound but we had too many hits that were incorporated at mid-field or beyond that would not have had the same effect if we hadn't had them (3 mics on 4ft tripods).

The biggest reason bands don't use them is because of cost. $1500-2000 for each mic and stand, then you try to work them in to a 16 channel mixer that doesn't have the capacity. $5000-10,000 for quality mixer...in most cases it's just not feasible when you're only asking $500 per member to cover cost for the year.

Should they be legal? That's up in the air. Do they work? A resounding, YES! (see what I did there)?

[GeekyBandMom]

There are many Tx bands that use directional (shotgun mics). They were prevalent even at BOA Austin.

It was the first year in my 4 years of envolvement that our band used them. I don't know for a fact why, our directors prefer unfiltered, unamplified sound but we had too many hits that were incorporated at mid-field or beyond that would not have had the same effect if we hadn't had them (3 mics on 4ft tripods).

The biggest reason bands don't use them is because of cost. $1500-2000 for each mic and stand, then you try to work them in to a 16 channel mixer that doesn't have the capacity. $5000-10,000 for quality mixer...in most cases it's just not feasible when you're only asking $500 per member to cover cost for the year.

Should they be legal? That's up in the air. Do they work? A resounding, YES! (see what I did there)?

This is a great answer. Anyone who watched DCI this summer knows how hot this topic was for them as well.  I have mixed feelings about it, especially from where I sit (in the front I feel like all I hear is speaker). There's a great discussion about this from the Bluecoats...I found it pretty interesting anyway.

 

MarchingRoundTableAmplificationPart1

 

MarchingRoundTableAmplificationPart2

[1998-2018]

There are many Tx bands that use directional (shotgun mics).

Directional mics and shotgun mics are not the same thing. They actually serve opposite purposes. I can confirm some top Texas bands are now using shotgun mics while others are using directional mics and it should be no surprise that some are using both. Why? I think there are two good reasons. First, nobody should win based on the size of their band. Mics allow excellent, but smaller bands to be competitive. Second, more subtlety and quality of tone along with increased dynamic range of the performance is possible. Park and play is bad enough but when a band then just blasts away, loud and proud, I'm ready to go see what the concession stand has to offer. My kids are spread out. The oldest was a Freshman in '98 and the youngest will be a Senior in '18 so I've been doing this a long time. During that time the program has done very well and more than doubled in size (nobody would call them small) but there is a small group of band that finish ahead of them on a fairly regular basis and that group has one thing in common. They're all louder. Please don't misunderstand me. Generally speaking (but not always) these are programs with excellent music, marching, and visual skills too. And our band also beats many loud bands. Clearly loud alone is not enough. So it's a subtle and complicated issue. However, my observation over the last 20 years is judges are influenced by volume and sometimes it is enough to make up for other shortcomings or give the edge in extremely close competition. (BOA SA for example.) I'm also not blaming the judges. Any band nerd knows that big blast of sound is intoxicating. So mics, used correctly without abusing them, give everyone access to our drug of choice. So once everyone is loud enough to be easily heard, great will have to be defined by other traits or elements of the performance that it seems should matter more anyway. When my oldest son was in the band at practice it was normal to hear the Director say something like, "That sounds great! Now play it again, louder." It was a major focus during practice. Towards the end of this season I asked my daughter if she had heard anything like that. She didn't recall ever hearing it so I stopped by practice to listen because I knew they still weren't "loud enough" to overcome the natural bias. What I heard was, "That's much better and exactly what we want! That time you didn't overplay like last time." While this is excellent music instruction, it might not be the best way to prepare for a competition where volume gives an edge. So what was going on? We used mics at that next competition and the sound was amazing. The best of both worlds. Sweet, subtle tone with volume. I started out with a strong bias against mics. Now I realize it was mostly because the early adopters were often bands that tend to overplay anyway and now they were over amplified too. Now I see it more like mics for solos. That seemed odd at first too, but the variety of woodwinds we hear now is a welcome addition to the traditional trumpet solo of days past. We're very early in this transition to mics on the field. I think in the long-run it will likely get worked out and be a positive addition.

[SamuelCulper]

Paragraphs are cool. Give them a try.

[froggie]

I’m curious though; how much of a financial investment are we talking about?

[TxDragonDad]

I’m curious though; how much of a financial investment are we talking about?

 

As little as $2.5k for 4 cheap mics/stands/cables to as much as $14k.

[1998-2018]

Paragraphs are cool. Give them a try.

What an incredibly insightful observation!

 

While I should probably avoid making long posts on my phone where the forum's edit screen is limited to just a few lines of text and it's hard to get a perspective on format, the truth is I'm left wondering if you have anything productive to add to an otherwise interesting conversation.

 

Go ahead, feel free to try again.

[Rudedog34]

I’m curious though; how much of a financial investment are we talking about?

That's something that would need to be researched. New, used or rented. Low, mid or high quality. It also depends on the direction of the program. Will the equipment be used only during marching season or will it see multi use from other programs throughout the year. Training is another consideration too.

A quick Google search yielded a bargain basement cost of around 2K and a top shelf of between 8-9.5K.

Keep in mind, I'm no expert, just a band booster with "some" knowledge whose pockets aren't shallow, but definitely not deep and tend to verify the justification.

[bingogooberman]

Random thing I just noticed but Marcus took visual on Thursday prelims over Carmel, BA, and Avon. Couldn’t maintain that through finals but that’s really promising for them going forward. Tbh, their show was not one of my favorites thematically but seeing them tackle a harder, faster visual program was pretty exciting- if they could apply that to a more refined, late 2000s era Marcus show they could be unstoppable