Samuel Culper Posted October 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 Slotting is an issue in BOA judging as well. Are there any marching band competitions out there where it is not an issue? If so, I'd love to know. This is just a frustration with judging something so involved and subjective. I am going to feel horrible for our band (Vista) if it bites us in the ****. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hgpatx Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 I think the top 4 is sealed (Leander, CP, Vista, Vandy). The 5th will likely be DS, but Connally could contend. McCalllum probably won't be in the top 5 if they lost to Georgetown at VR (Georgetown hasn't been in Area D finals in either 5A or 6A in what...7-8 years? Though I think both them and Eastview have a shot this year.). I think next on the list would be LBJ, and after scoring pretty far behind DS at Westlake, I think they're out of the mix as well. McCallum didn't have half their drill to mvt. 4 at VR Marching fest. Yet finished 2nd in music in prelims overall and 4th in finals overall (ahead of Connally and Westlake at prelims and tied with Connally at finals). They got the 5A caption in percussion and music. Georgetown only got .1 points ahead of McCallum, and they had a complete show vs. a partially incomplete show, so you can't really judge on that contest. I still think McCallum can make it very interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hard Core Band Fan Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 This is my fear. That a deserving band will be left out because of classic weird prelim judging. Based on the schedule it wouldn't surprise me one bit if Conally snuck in again. Just a hunch based on my knowledge of how judges are influenced by flow of bands (I'm a firm believer in this) What? UIL judging being weird? Where else can one judge have someone in 1st and another in 22nd, and the others at 4th? I've seen some crazy things happen in the last 30+ years with UIL scoring. I don't, however, really blame the judges as much as the scoring system. I think it's really hard to manage a 1000-point system. That's just too many points to be consistent with over a really long day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bandperson1997 Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 Throw back to Area D judging putting Round Rock as 1st in music, and then the other judge put them as 17th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theduke Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 What happens if Saturday is a complete washout? Or even if all 25+ bands don't manage to get in a Prelims performance? Prelims will continue till midnight to try and fit all the bands in. If for some reason a band/bands do not get to perform, they will be scheduled to perform Sunday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takigan Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 Predictions are up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natertater21000 Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 slotting is not near as big an issue in BOA though. At san Antonio in 2012 marcus was the first band in finals and won by a landslide. Leander and CTJ were first and second in pre lims last year and both went on Friday way before any of the other big names in the top 6. Slotting is a nice little advantage to have in BOA however in UIL it can control your entire bands fate regardless of how well you perform. Also something of note is how much more weight a judge carries in UIL a bad judge can drop your band a couple spots in BOA (see Leander last year in music GE 2 for a good example) but in UIl that same situation can drop a band from the top 5 clear out of finals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert_Jordan Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 This whole bit of "slotting" is rather unfortunate. Judges need to stick strictly to their grading rubric. I also wonder if it could be advantageous to have school names "blocked" from the judges so that all they see is "Band #1", "Band #2". You'd also have to have a way to keep the judges from hearing the announcer calling out which band is now performing. This way you could partially rule out the possibility of judges having it in their mind that, "Oh this is a band that deserves to move on, they may have messed up a little in preliminaries, but based on who they are, they should move on." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LHSax Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 Eh, there is no perfect system. It's an unbelievably subjective activity with so many nuances, pieces and parts that its hard to have judges that all agree. That's the beauty of the activity though! If results were consistent and all judges agreed on everything in a perfect world, then we might as well just have robot judges. They would scan the entire show, measure spacing between marchers through out, calculate timing of the feet, detect intonation, and generally analyze everything and insert into a complex equation and pop out a score! Guess that would really be the only "fair" judge. But luckily for us, that wouldn't work...because it's marching band! It's emotional, it's thought-provoking, it's an art! The beauty of the way these things are scored, is that you have to create, develop and mold a show that has the ability to please a variety of potential judges looking specifically at a wide variety of elements, within the context of dozens of other shows they're comparing to yours. There isn't an equation for a perfect show, it requires a balance of difficulty and cleanliness that peaks at all the right times. Designers/directors do everything they can to put their band in the place to please the largest percentage of people, but in the end, it comes down to a single viewing, by a few specific people personally witnessing a few elements of a show filled with thousands of them. It boggles my mind that people expect consistency among judges, when there's so many things at play upon a viewing of a marching band show, and especially upon viewing dozens of marching shows in a day. "Slotting," as it's so endearingly called, is part of the process! It's part of trying to make an art quantifiable, that is tricky, but inevitable. These shows don't happen in a perfect bubble. They happen throughout the ebb and flow of a marching band contest, and that just adds another layer to this beautiful tiramisu cake we call marching band. Looks tasty doesn't it? /rant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerpDerpman Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 Another thing to think about is that, with the weather being what it is, there will likely be no electronics during the competition. For bands who rely heavily on electronics (such as Leander, although I'm sure they'll be fine, they do have a lot of mics, noises, etc.), this could adversely affect their performances if they aren't ready for it. Although I'm not sure of all the bands that have a lot of electronics in their shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert_Jordan Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 Good call. I know all the LISD bands have mic'd up instruments. Leander has the choir up front. Cedar Park has their ensemble up front starting the show (don't remember if it's mic'd or not). All have keyboards and speaker systems. Georgetown has either a mic setup on an acoustic guitar OR it's an acoustic with a pickup in it. Either way, it's amped. Several other bands, if not all, from the area have keyboards. Raining and wet could really make it interesting this Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takigan Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 With all the elaborate staging and props bands do, I'm surprised more bands haven't constructed rain contingencies and added them to part of the front ensemble setup rehearsal weeks in advance (ie. train your alternates to assemble and hoist a tent in 2 minutes.....put your mixer cart in it.). Get an EZ tent and hoist it over your synths, mics and wood percussion. Modify the speaker carts with special frames where you can easily throw a tarp over it without it actually touching the speaker itself, and still have an opening in the front for the sound and air pressure to escape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hard Core Band Fan Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 With all the elaborate staging and props bands do, I'm surprised more bands haven't constructed rain contingencies and added them to part of the front ensemble setup rehearsal weeks in advance (ie. train your alternates to assemble and hoist a tent in 2 minutes.....put your mixer cart in it.). Get an EZ tent and hoist it over your synths, mics and wood percussion. Modify the speaker carts with special frames where you can easily throw a tarp over it without it actually touching the speaker itself, and still have an opening in the front for the sound and air pressure to escape. Most band directors I know will always spend every moment available with perfecting the show. They'll take their chances with the weather. And since the most critical performances will be indoors, they focus more on them. Quite often, they really don't spend enough time with practicing getting props other equipment on and off the field in an efficient manner and if that's not a high priority, then the preventive measures are going to be a really low priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takigan Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 Not all time is rehearsal time....especially for alternates who don't have a show spot. There are field entrance/exit rehearsals, time spent aligning and fine tuning wireless microphones, prop assembly, staging, synth programming.....the list goes on. And I was an alternate once my freshman year....the time spent sitting around was endless. It could also get done in July.It's only in the past decade or so that weather has had the ability to render most bands' shows completely useless because of all the electric equipment...I remember for awhile there used to be the problem of powering them on show days....Lots of bands had started using electronics, but they didn't plan on bringing a generator because they just assumed the stadium would provide them power. It didn't always work out that way, so they sometimes went without. Not anymore. We adapted. Now most bands have a generator on standby just in case a stadium doesn't provide power (which they almost all do now, because they all know we need it). We just haven't adapted appropriately for the rain yet...which we've been having more of in recent years; weather cycles and whatnot. There was a school a few years back where when their show started it wasn't even sprinkling. A couple minutes in they were caught in a squall.....ruined thousands of dollars of equipment because they weren't prepared. It shouldn't have to come to that and the risk isn't just something you take a chance on.....it's inevitable for many bands with the amount of time they spend outdoors with sensitive equipment.They've got these hydrophobic sprays for smartphones/tablets now which waterproof them. Not saying that'll work on synths and mics, but y'know...it gets ya thinkin'. These days an iPad can be used as a synth on its own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert_Jordan Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 Well... there's rain, and then there's RAIN. Saturday is looking extremely ugly with the cold front hitting Austin around or a little before the early bands. Hopefully UIL gets their heads together on this one and moves it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hard Core Band Fan Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 Not all time is rehearsal time....especially for alternates who don't have a show spot. There are field entrance/exit rehearsals, time spent aligning and fine tuning wireless microphones, prop assembly, staging, synth programming.....the list goes on. And I was an alternate once my freshman year....the time spent sitting around was endless. It could also get done in July. It's only in the past decade or so that weather has had the ability to render most bands' shows completely useless because of all the electric equipment...I remember for awhile there used to be the problem of powering them on show days....Lots of bands had started using electronics, but they didn't plan on bringing a generator because they just assumed the stadium would provide them power. It didn't always work out that way, so they sometimes went without. Not anymore. We adapted. Now most bands have a generator on standby just in case a stadium doesn't provide power (which they almost all do now, because they all know we need it). We just haven't adapted appropriately for the rain yet...which we've been having more of in recent years; weather cycles and whatnot. There was a school a few years back where when their show started it wasn't even sprinkling. A couple minutes in they were caught in a squall.....ruined thousands of dollars of equipment because they weren't prepared. It shouldn't have to come to that and the risk isn't just something you take a chance on.....it's inevitable for many bands with the amount of time they spend outdoors with sensitive equipment. They've got these hydrophobic sprays for smartphones/tablets now which waterproof them. Not saying that'll work on synths and mics, but y'know...it gets ya thinkin'. These days an iPad can be used as a synth on its own. I'm with you on that and I would be one of those directors that would be totally repared for that eventuality. But, with 50+ years of being around and part of band programs - being a band director's son, having two sisters that are band directors, being a Music Ed. major myself, and knowing dozens and dozens of band directors as family friends and personal friends over that long period of time - the large majority don't spend a lot of energy worrying about rain. True, more electronics being used makes it more of a necessity, but the nature of the personalities of the directors I have known and know today doesn't really make it a primary concern. Many times it takes a disaster to make it a priority. I'm not arguing the point, but just telling you what I've seen and know regarding them being prepared and prioritizing this preparation. takigan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTXBandFan Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 I will say that the monsoon that hit during State last year ruined the fabric on FloMo's props. They had to order new fabric in time for Grand Nats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dylan123 Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 I will say that the monsoon that hit during State last year ruined the fabric on FloMo's props. They had to order new fabric in time for Grand Nats. it rained during state last year? I thought there were blue skies.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 it rained during state last year? I thought there were blue skies..The weather was gorgeous inside the dome, but it was absolutely pouring outside during Finals. I know that Duncanville was absolutely drenched while performing their water show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dylan123 Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 The weather was gorgeous inside the dome, but it was absolutely pouring outside during Finals. I know that Duncanville was absolutely drenched while performing their water show. I was only there for prelims. that's why I probably missed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Culper Posted October 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 So what if a band decides they can't come perform due to the change of days and not all 25 bands compete? Do we still get 5 slots? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
principalagent Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 If I'm not mistaken, UIL changed its policy from "one for every five area participants advances" to "one advancer for every 5 '1' ratings in the area" a year or two ago that would mitigate that issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTXBandFan Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 it rained during state last year? I thought there were blue skies.. It was sunny during prelims. FloMo had a late prelims draw They ended up with the first or 2nd slot in Finals, so they were able to just leave their props under cover in the dome, which was good for them at the time, because the weather was about to hit. After finals they had to clear out and make room for all the other bands' props and gear. Which meant it all got soaked. It didn't matter so much for the other bands, because that was their last show, but FloMo still had Indy coming up. Unfortunately, it took a while for who ever was running logistics to figure out how the bands could work their props iand equipment in and out. without getting wet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobydoo Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 Is this contest still at Kelly Reeves or did it move. I may go watch some bands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
principalagent Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 It's at Gupton by Vista Ridge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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