Xenon Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 2007 UIL State 4A Finals Results: 1. Poteet 2. Connally 3. Dickinson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fata1 Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 Poteet takes the win for the second time in a row. Well, not much to say. Good job to all the bands the competed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donezo Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 (edited) OMG!!!!! Yay!!!!! And I'm thrilled to see Dickinson get a medal for the first time in ten years. Awesome job guys! And also mad props to Connally for turning a shaky season into your highest state placement ever!!! Edited November 7, 2007 by Donezo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon Posted November 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 Did I call that Connally jump or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fata1 Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 Yeah, Connally wasn't doing so well a while back. I think people were questioning whether they would even advance from Area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon Posted November 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 Full Results: http://utdirect.utexas.edu/uilsmbc/lbw2_sc...;s_display_sw=R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fata1 Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 It's nice to see consistent judging as far as first place goes. On a side note, Poteet's doing pretty well. They've gotten first in the past three major 4A state competitions. Two marching and one Honor Band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donezo Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 So the Phlugerville schools flip-flopped. Interesting. I'm pretty surprised to see Sherman in 10th. I guess I need to see performances before I can make further comment on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Band Of Champions Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 Congrats to all the bands. It sounds like it was an amazing competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mculbert07 Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 Umm. Wow. That's all I have to say. And it's not Phlugerville. Pflugerville. Don't ask me why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titancoaster Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 OMG, I cannot believe we just got freaking second at state! We are very happy to have an amazing ending to this odd-ball season. I would like to congradulate all the band participating at the state contest, it was a memorable one for sure!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HashBrownJM Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 Man, Connally. Gettin' it done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceeblue2 Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 Connally most definitely left it all on the field!!! Congrats to all !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mculbert07 Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 Did anyone else feel like a lot of the shows were really "safe" and "in the box"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kks_x Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 Man, Connally. Gettin' it done. yum! i love today. most definately! :] ahh. i am still in shock. second? geez, can't wait to wear this silver medal. congrats to all of the bands though, seriously. this was a tough competition year. and dude, mad props for AREA D. all of us made finals, heck yes! great job guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donezo Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 (edited) And it's not Phlugerville.Pflugerville. Don't ask me why. Haha! I can't believe I misspelled Pflugerville. I think I was just overly excited last night. So I predicted none of the finals placements correctly. That's what I get for bragging about my predictions after prelims. Edited November 7, 2007 by Donezo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonepit06-07 Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 woohoo!!! Go Connally second place great job... a memorable season in fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyace007 Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 I came to watch state this year and disagreed with some of the finalist judges 1.) Conally had ana average show for them and got 2nd when there music wasnt that good 2.) What happened to Hendrickson there drill was amazingly clean in finals and we all know they bring the sound 3.) Judging was horriabale scores all over the place 4.) I think poteet may have because there well poteet, there show was good and all but there were better bands than them Anyways congrats to all bands who wennt to state but i was disapointed Also way to go Area D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentwatch Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 I came to watch state this year and disagreed with some of the finalist judges1.) Conally had ana average show for them and got 2nd when there music wasnt that good 2.) What happened to Hendrickson there drill was amazingly clean in finals and we all know they bring the sound 3.) Judging was horriabale scores all over the place 4.) I think poteet may have because there well poteet, there show was good and all but there were better bands than them Anyways congrats to all bands who wennt to state but i was disapointed Also way to go Area D I can't really judge the bands in finals for many different reasons, the biggest being I didn't get to see any of them from the stands. But I think that's the fallacy of judging, period. Someone is always going to be biased. I'm curious how judges are selected, whether they're instructed beforehand exactly how to judge, and whether the finals judges had any information whatsoever from the prelims. I also wonder if the finals judges were there at prelims. My dad was telling me he enjoyed watching our band's final rehearsal but he hated judged competitions because there's no such thing as "fairness" in them. He says there are bands out there that play really good, sound good, and the things they can do are amazing, but everyone will have their own opinion on what "amazing" is. One thing I think would be cool (but maybe impossible) to experience....videotape the shows and let Judges judge the videos without knowing who the bands are. LOL Betcha we'd see a bunch of different marks if the Judges had no clue who the schools were. I also wonder how different the results would be if the same prelims judges also judged finals. And I wondered what the results would have been if we keep the idea of totally new judges at finals, but have the prelims judges judge again and their scores are worth 10% and added to the scores of the new judges (who would not be allowed to have contact with the old ones, nor would they be allowed to watch the prelims). I think the biggest factor, however, was that dumb cold front that decided to come visit the Alamodome. Why it couldn't have arrived a day earlier or even a day later is beyond me! Sure, the bands are expected to be able to perform with flexibility regardless, but like was mentioned before, when you have to practice outside in the wind and cold, then try to repeat a good practice in a warmer, calmer arena, hmmm...can throw some off. (And I'm sure some of the later bands in finals had difficulty resting!!! haha) In all, CONGRATS to the strong representation of area D, and to Connally who made a huge jump up from prelims to finals. To all bands who reached State, regardless of ranking afterwards, when you consider there are over 1,000 school districts in the State of Texas, and some of these districts have more than three 4A high schools, to be one of only 24 bands competing for a State Championship is something to be proud of, finals or not, top 3 or not. Congratulations to all 24 bands for representing the best Texas High Schools have to offer on the 4A level! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceeblue2 Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 Wow, I always find it a bit amazing when the "scores" don't quite go folks way, whether it be football or band etc.... it ALWAYS seems to the flawed, paid-off, biased judges, or Refs...These particular judges are from UT Austin, Crossman, Univ of Illinois, Arizona State, L.D Bell...and we all know HE doesn't have a clue ...etc....Everyone knows UIL has a criteria to go by when judging (it's not their first time at the judges table after all)...Does some judges miss things another might not? Of, course It's subjective and will never be perfect, but to contiunally blame the very well qualified men and women is just lame. Oh, PS - It's equally amazing how they Judges are "spot on" when the scores are in our favor CONGRATSULATION to all the finialists especially AREA D .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyace007 Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 yeah the judges are qualififed its just some judges look for or listen for particulars or have thing they focus on, some bands do what the judges want and others apparently dont its not the judges fault its just what happens happens so congrats to everyone and i hope everyone returned home safely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentwatch Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 Wow, I always find it a bit amazing when the "scores" don't quite go folks way, whether it be football or band etc.... it ALWAYS seems to the flawed, paid-off, biased judges, or Refs...These particular judges are from UT Austin, Crossman, Univ of Illinois, Arizona State, L.D Bell...and we all know HE doesn't have a clue ...etc....Everyone knows UIL has a criteria to go by when judging (it's not their first time at the judges table after all)...Does some judges miss things another might not? Of, course It's subjective and will never be perfect, but to contiunally blame the very well qualified men and women is just lame. Oh, PS - It's equally amazing how they Judges are "spot on" when the scores are in our favor CONGRATSULATION to all the finialists especially AREA D .... I don't recall "blaming" the judges. I asked a simple question. How were they chosen? I wasn't complaining about them at all. I admitted that at ANY judged competition, you WILL have a biased judge, regardless of what they've been instructed. At any football game, you WILL have a biased referee (Believe me, I have called the refs biased even when we won!). It's impossible to get anyone non-human (i.e., totally honest...grin). I never said they weren't well-qualified. I know very well where these particular judges came from. In fact, Paula Crider was MY band director at one point and I know quite a bit about her. I don't care if their scores went our way or not, that's not my point. I'm referring to how the scores were all over the place like that for many schools (it's been complained about more than once on these forums across several different competitions, not just this one). We didn't have a strong finals performance at all. I have hunches about that, but that's beside the point. It has nothing to do with the judging. I was merely responding to another complaint about the judges and the disagreement with them. I just got curious if anyone knew how they were chosen and what the procedures are once they're selected? Were the finals judges allowed to watch prelims? Did they have contact with the prelims judges? Is that against the rules in UIL? Did they discuss among themselves certain aspects of the competition before the competition began? Judges are human. They're going to disappoint people at some point and they're going to make other people happy. Just a fact of competition. Doesn't bother me. I've had my share of the good and bad. No blaming judges from me. Just trying to make sense of the wide gap between some scores. (I tend to think it's because they're from vast locations and didn't communicate beforehand, which is fine) I do find it interesting, however, especially in the prelims, how certain judges seemed to favor certain areas, regardless of school. Just really all-around interesting is all. I've always felt that each area has it's own "sound" and "style" and each judge has his/her own "like factor" (for lack of better term! LOL). So they'll tend to judge higher those that match their own interests in many cases (but not all). Did Crider attend the Austin events and get a preview of bands from that area prior to judging? Does that even make any difference? Again, not complaining at all, believe me. Just curious. Seems to me there's no way to balance anything out. If you get all judges from far states (let's say, OR, WA, ID, FL, WV), chances are, they're not going to be used to the way things are done in TX, nor will they appreciate the general TX interest among bands, but yet, if you get judges from TX, somehow, that can be unfair to some bands in some ways and to others in other ways. Do I even make any sense? LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceeblue2 Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 I don't recall "blaming" the judges. I asked a simple question. How were they chosen? I wasn't complaining about them at all. I admitted that at ANY judged competition, you WILL have a biased judge, regardless of what they've been instructed. At any football game, you WILL have a biased referee (Believe me, I have called the refs biased even when we won!). It's impossible to get anyone non-human (i.e., totally honest...grin). I never said they weren't well-qualified. I know very well where these particular judges came from. In fact, Paula Crider was MY band director at one point and I know quite a bit about her. I don't care if their scores went our way or not, that's not my point. I'm referring to how the scores were all over the place like that for many schools (it's been complained about more than once on these forums across several different competitions, not just this one). We didn't have a strong finals performance at all. I have hunches about that, but that's beside the point. It has nothing to do with the judging. I was merely responding to another complaint about the judges and the disagreement with them. I just got curious if anyone knew how they were chosen and what the procedures are once they're selected? Were the finals judges allowed to watch prelims? Did they have contact with the prelims judges? Is that against the rules in UIL? Did they discuss among themselves certain aspects of the competition before the competition began? Judges are human. They're going to disappoint people at some point and they're going to make other people happy. Just a fact of competition. Doesn't bother me. I've had my share of the good and bad. No blaming judges from me. Just trying to make sense of the wide gap between some scores. (I tend to think it's because they're from vast locations and didn't communicate beforehand, which is fine) I do find it interesting, however, especially in the prelims, how certain judges seemed to favor certain areas, regardless of school. Just really all-around interesting is all. I've always felt that each area has it's own "sound" and "style" and each judge has his/her own "like factor" (for lack of better term! LOL). So they'll tend to judge higher those that match their own interests in many cases (but not all). Did Crider attend the Austin events and get a preview of bands from that area prior to judging? Does that even make any difference? Again, not complaining at all, believe me. Just curious. Seems to me there's no way to balance anything out. If you get all judges from far states (let's say, OR, WA, ID, FL, WV), chances are, they're not going to be used to the way things are done in TX, nor will they appreciate the general TX interest among bands, but yet, if you get judges from TX, somehow, that can be unfair to some bands in some ways and to others in other ways. Do I even make any sense? LOL Not really , and my post was not directed to any one post, just a pattern I notice from competition to competition whether it's UIL, BOA or just any ramdon competition...it just always seem to happen...Curiosity about the judging system is always a good thing, my point was the ever so popular rush to judge and blame the judges for scores they don't agree with, but hey if ya can't blame the judges who can you blame...lol THAT was just a joke ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynasty Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 Judges put their reputation on the line, and as I'm sure you noticed, they have very prestigious reputations. They are all smart enough to judge fairly and equally. The question then comes down to the particular tastes of a judge. In visual, does a judge value overall form over individual form? Who knows, but they are trusted to make the right decisions. silentwatch, do you have a recommendation on how to judge better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon Posted November 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 I don't know exaclty how they are chosen other than the State Marching Contest Committee (headed by George Strickland) chose them. No, the Finals judges were not even in the Alamodome during Prelims and are not supposed to have any contact with the Prelims judges or have any ranking information from Prelims. There are multiple-hour training sessions for non-TMAA certified/trained judges in order to (re)familiarize them with the judging system and ideals. I think more is probably needed in this area, but I need to do more research on it before I go any further on that. There is a UIL non-association rule where all of the judges must certify (I think before a Notary) that they have not had any direct association with the directors/members of any of the bands outside of a competition setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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